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dangerous?



hi there in the process of nuyin a cup 172, im reading the other forums and it has come up about putting winter wheels on? please explain. is the 172 cup car dangerous to drive in winter time with the standard wheels? is it not as safe as the normail cliosport? thanks
 
I think people put winter wheels on to stop their 'summer' wheels getting manky and scummy throught the winter months!

Some people may change to winter tyres which are designed for wet greasy mucky roads rather than Pilot Sport Exaltos/Eagle F1s etc... that are designed more summer (drier) conditions?
 
  Mk4 MX-5, Smart 451
The cup is more dangerous over winter as it doesn't have ABS that the non-cup variants have, the reason for changing the wheels is as said above, personally if I was buying a second hand sport I'd get one with ABS, the cup variants are becoming harder to insure by the day at the moment (due to the number that are crashed)
 
  cock mobile.
Gareth said:
The cup is more dangerous over winter as it doesn't have ABS that the non-cup variants have, the reason for changing the wheels is as said above, personally if I was buying a second hand sport I'd get one with ABS, the cup variants are becoming harder to insure by the day at the moment (due to the number that are crashed)

PMSL, the cup is no more dangerous in winter than it is in the summer.

Try and brake hard in any car with abs on an icey road you're gonna lock up!
 
  E90
Winter wheels are suppose to be for safety and not to preseve your alloys. They have different tread patterns designed to give better grip in wet and icy conditions, giving you better braking etc etc etc. Spending 300 quid on a set just to preserve your alloys is Geeky imo, if its for safety fair enough.
 
  Scirocco GT 210
sh33n said:
PMSL, the cup is no more dangerous in winter than it is in the summer.

I think you'll find every car is more dangerous to drive in winter than in summer.


sh33n said:
Try and brake hard in any car with abs on an icey road you're gonna lock up!

Do you even know what ABS stands for? You don't lock up! That's the whole point :cool:
 
  cock mobile.
Steve2004 said:
I think you'll find every car is more dangerous to drive in winter than in summer.

Yer fair point, but the cup is no more dangerous.


Steve2004 said:
Do you even know what ABS stands for? You don't lock up! That's the whole point :cool:

When the roads get all nice and icey go for a drive and slam on your brakes and see what happens :rasp:
 

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  MK2 FRS
The cup is no more dangerous than probably 60% of other cars. So many cars dont have ABS on them, it is not he be alll and end all of driver safety.

What happens is people drive them too hard and crash them. lol.

ABS is no use on ICE or snow.
 
  Punto/Clio GTT
Weeman said:
Winter wheels are suppose to be for safety and not to preseve your alloys. They have different tread patterns designed to give better grip in wet and icy conditions, giving you better braking etc etc etc. Spending 300 quid on a set just to preserve your alloys is Geeky imo, if its for safety fair enough.

ide say 99% of people on this forum have winter wheels just so the winter weather with the salt n grit on the roads dont touch their nice alloys for show season. i think its a bit sad myself too but whatever eh
 
  VaVa
Well the argument goes on and on, but the evidence speaks volumes.

Without getting into the technicalities of the effectiveness of ABS or TCS or ESP, can it really be a coincidence that Cups get binned in the winter and they don't have them?.

I've been a regular viewer of this forum for three years now, and sure as eggs is eggs every time the weather takes a turn for the worse pictures of binned 172 Cups start appearing ......

Cups have far less safety features and are crashed far more regularly than any other Clio during the winter months. You simply cannot argue with that fact. Certain insurance companies (including Greenlight) even charge a premium to insure the Cup as they have had so many total loss claims.

So, either the Cup is a more risky proposition to the everyday driver (don't forget lack of weight is also detrimental to traction in adverse conditions) or the majority of people that buy Cups are f**king useless drivers.

Either way, it's getting near silly season again. And I bet there are a few less Cups on the road come the spring. ;)
 
  cock mobile.
Laingo said:
Cups have far less safety features and are crashed far more regularly than any other Clio during the winter months. You simply cannot argue with that fact. Certain insurance companies (including Greenlight) even charge a premium to insure the Cup as they have had so many total loss claims.

As far as I know Greenlight do not cover the Cup at all, unless that has changed recently.
 
  172 Cup
Drive like a dickhead and you'll crash, drive according to the conditions and you won't. Simple.
 
  E90
^^ in a nutshell thats just about it.

Changing yr wheels so they dont get dirty.............. Now thats another subject entirely
 
  Scirocco GT 210
sh33n said:
When the roads get all nice and icey go for a drive and slam on your brakes and see what happens :rasp:

ABS kicks in and I don't lock up... what's your point? :rasp:
 

CJ

  Blue ph1 172
chiefsilverback said:

Some people may change to winter tyres which are designed for wet greasy mucky roads rather than Pilot Sport Exaltos/Eagle F1s etc... that are designed more summer (drier) conditions?

Eagle F1's have been voted the best tires in wet conditions many times so I'd say they're more winter tyres.
 
  VaVa
pecan said:
Drive like a dickhead and you'll crash, drive according to the conditions and you won't. Simple.

Pretty much. Although there's never any accounting for other road users. Unless you have ESP of a different kind of course. lol.

So if it isn't the lack of safety features that is behind the Cups winter cull, it must be that a high percentage of Cup drivers are either a) s**t or b) Unlucky
 
  106 GTi
cjtheman said:
Eagle F1's have been voted the best tires in wet conditions many times so I'd say they're more winter tyres.

No - Wet is one thing, snow is another, F1s and Toyo T1S fill up with snow in the due to the V shaped tread pattern and give no traction at all.
 
Since when does not having ABS make a car dangerous?? If you need technology to keep you on the road or out of someone's rear end, you shouldnt be driving!

Never had a car with ABS and never had an accident (on the road at least, touch wood), though it is a VERY useful thing to have, granted.
 
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  Fiat Coupe 20v turbo
Funny how we don't get a huge increase in crashes of valvers/willys when winter comes round and the majority of those don't have abs either....

I don't think it's a coincidence that the majority of the dead 172 cups were driven by young/inexperienced males.
 
  Liquid yellow R26 F1
Just my opinion. but i have a Cup and drive it hard in all weathers.. (well, maybe not snow..)

the breakfast run can prove that they're not dangerous.. as initially the majority of attendees were cups.. and the cars that fell in ditches were an Evo and 172..

It all comes down to the drivers ability, and driving to the conditions.. + i don't have winter wheels.. Conti's do the job perfectly..!!!

Cups Rule.. :) LOL
 
  VaVa
There were more Cups crashed last winter than all of the cars in the 'breakfast run' put together.

Your little illegal early morning swarees prove nothing. ;)
 

CJ

  Blue ph1 172
Rich said:
No - Wet is one thing, snow is another, F1s and Toyo T1S fill up with snow in the due to the V shaped tread pattern and give no traction at all.

It snows once a year if that and p*sses down on almost a daily basis though :rasp:

Anyway, all cliosports crash it's just when people see a cup crash they say 'It must be because of no abs'. It's down to the drivers.
 
(Replying to Laingo)

That said cups are not inherently dangerous compared to a standard 172!

Agree the breakfast run is not exactly a large sample though.

Its more down to the driver. Drive like an idiot and your gonna come un-stuck eventually in any car.

To the author of the thread (sorry can't remember your name) just show the car some respect and you'll be fine (touchwood!)
 
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  BMW M4; S1000 RR
lmao there are some quality (lacking) posts here.

Winter tyres are exactly that. Designed for COLD and WET conditions. Where things like the Exaltos are for summer use the rubber compound is fairly hard, they need warming up before they start gripping to their potential, and wet warm conditions are the same, they still grip well.

When the temperature drops below 10 degrees everyday, you should really change to winter tyres unless you drive at 30mph everywhere, and for this reason some people buy a cheaper set of alloys (or steelies if they don't mind them) and whack some good winter tyres on. Could be because they don't want their chrome spinners getting road salt on them, or simply because they can't be bothered to change the tyres so just buy seperate wheels.

THE ABS DEBATE....

There really shouldn't be one, sure in normal conditions, competent drivers will not need ABS, and can brake perfectly well without locking the wheels, and if the wheels do lock, a quick pump and you're braking again. Top stuff.

HOWEVER, in a crash situation, EVERYONE hits the brake, it's a millisecond judgement,

"Need to stop the car fast. Brake stops the car. Hit the brake fast!!!"

No one can dispute this. Whenever you see an F1 driver crash, his wheels are locked up, it's nothing to do with skill, it's just a human reaction, so anyone argueing with the fact that ABS is a good thing for any car being driven on the road is (and I'm sorry to say) an ignorant fool.

Sure, on track, if you have 2 cars, one with ABS and one without, the one without will have a tiny advantage due to the weight advantage. The kicking in arguement is bullshit too, if your ABS kicks in when you're braking it's not slowing you down. If you broke with the same pressure in the same situation with the same conditions in a non-ABS car the wheels would lock up, meaning both cars can quickly adjust to keep braking hard with a quick foot adjustment, only difference being the ABS car has been slowing down for that second rather than sliding.

No opinion. Just fact. Let it be;)
 
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  BMW M4; S1000 RR
BTW, don't take that to mean ABS will save you. It's an aid, 7 or 8 times out of 10, the crash will happen anyway, albeit with a slower collision.
 
You love ABS don't you ;)

ClioTT was actually concerned about having to change tyres for winter I think, rather than the classic 'no ABS' worries
 
Weeman said:
Winter wheels are suppose to be for safety and not to preseve your alloys. They have different tread patterns designed to give better grip in wet and icy conditions, giving you better braking etc etc etc. Spending 300 quid on a set just to preserve your alloys is Geeky imo, if its for safety fair enough.

It's the tyre that has the different tread patterns, not the wheel! You could just get winter tyres put on your alloys, no need to change the worried about your alloys getting dirty!
 
Gareth said:
The cup is more dangerous over winter as it doesn't have ABS that the non-cup variants have, the reason for changing the wheels is as said above, personally if I was buying a second hand sport I'd get one with ABS, the cup variants are becoming harder to insure by the day at the moment (due to the number that are crashed)

ABS is designed to allow you to steer round obstacles, children etc... whilst emergency braking. It doesn't prevent the wheels locking, but when they do lock the system starts pulsing the brakes to keep the wheels turning! You can do the same thing with your right foot and anybody who learned to drive before ABS will know this!

ABS is incredible but people drove quite happily for many years before it was introduced!

On ice the ESPs, TCSs and ABSs can be a pain because your wheels are going to slip and spin but the systems read this as losing control and try to intervene!

I would suggest that the lack of ABS/ESP on the Cups does contribute to increased winter crashes, but only because the drivers don't make allowances! Unfortunately people rely too much on electronics today! I read one post on here where somebody seemed to use the ESP to allow him to drive faster "it's alright, the traction control does the hard bit...." (sic).
 
cliokhunt said:
BTW, don't take that to mean ABS will save you. It's an aid, 7 or 8 times out of 10, the crash will happen anyway, albeit with a slower collision.

Again, it's not there to slow you down quicker etc... it's there to allow you to retain control of the vehicle under hard braking, allowing you to steer out of trouble!
 
  BMW M4; S1000 RR
Baldylocks said:
You love ABS don't you ;)

ClioTT was actually concerned about having to change tyres for winter I think, rather than the classic 'no ABS' worries

Hah.

I am at work on a tuesday afternoon, doing pretty much nothing apart from waiting for some survey equipment to come so we can go out on site.

I normally let so many things go on this forum, not enough time to write on every thread!!

But whenever someone brings up ABS and doesn't actually realise the benefits I just have to post. Don't worry though, I'll copy and paste next time ;)
 
Has anyone ever actually seen decent winter tyres?All i ever see are all season tyres. Good tyres i.e michelins will work well in wet winters but short of putting chains on your wheels or spikes on your tyres any cars is going to loose traction in snow or ice.
I crashed on ice with abs it never really slowed me down but since my wheels were running and not locked i did have more steering control which is a major benefit of it.
Regarding the cups i'd say the car just attracts over enthusiastic drivers
 
cliokhunt said:
Hah.

I am at work on a tuesday afternoon, doing pretty much nothing apart from waiting for some survey equipment to come so we can go out on site.

I normally let so many things go on this forum, not enough time to write on every thread!!

But whenever someone brings up ABS and doesn't actually realise the benefits I just have to post. Don't worry though, I'll copy and paste next time ;)

Thats cool, I was'nt having a dig (well maybe a little one;) )

I'm quite happy to agree to disagree on this subject
 
  BMW M4; S1000 RR
tidyclio said:
Has anyone ever actually seen decent winter tyres?

Do you mean has anyone on here got winter tyres, or that you have never seen them ???

Michellin do Pilot Alpines for winter. Goodyear also do a winter version of the Eagle.
 


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