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Done HU & Components, now what...?



  172
In order to get a decent SQ/volume compromise I'm having to take a little bit out of the treble and have to forget about bass completely. What are my options?


* 2 channel amp from ebay + a wiring kit. I assume any old amp, even a £50 halfords one will be better than the 18ish watts RMS the HU can provide? With this theory, can I just pick up the cheapest amp i can find on ebay and be glad that it's a big improvement even it's not the most versatile or powerful amp in the world?

* Alpine KTP-445 power pack. I want a strictly OEM look so not having to route a power cable, power-on cable, RCA cable and then splice into the existing door loom is very attractive! However at £100 this seems disproportionally expensive compared to a "proper" amp ebay job? These don't seem to come up second hand very often either, though they seem to hold their value well.

* Can I focus on installation/setup? Presumably dynamat etc will do nothing to prevent distortion, but it will give a "fuller" more complete SQ?

* Is there much I can do to limit the amount that each speaker is having to do? It seems that even the standard speakers are suprisingly ok if they don't have to do much. I thought about HPF'ing the front woofers at around 300 Hz therefore sending the lower frequencies to some LPF'd woofers in the rear (I appreciate this would in no way be a replacement for a sub, however I want music not vibrations, I spose I just want a tiny bit of this addictive "kick") On the subject of filters, they only seem to exist in the form of crossovers (which aren't applicable to my idea?) and inline-pre-amped filters (ditto)? Has anyone had any success with attaching home-made filters just before the speaker? (the bits can't cost more than a £ or two from maplins and you could make the filter to the exact cut off frequency you wanted. Stick a £1.50 potentiometer in the mix and you could even make yourself a filter with an adjustable cut off frequency I guess)

* What does "nominal" mean r.e speaker power. Is it a replacement term for RMS?



Apart from appreciating good SQ, I'm really no audiophile (sp?) so please do correct anything I've said or missed!

P.S. Alpine CDE-101RM HU (50w max, has one set of RCA pre-outs for sub OR fronts) and the el-cheapo lower-spec black/grey pioneer custom fits (35w nominal, 130w max)



Thanks in advance!
 
  Ph1 - 172
Ok, from reading this there are a few things that may clash a little.

Firstly good SQ aswell as volume cost a little bit to get right. Very much possible when done right.

OEM look, this will not make things easy at all. Keeping the car looking OEM is fine but this will seriously limit the power and SQ you can achieve.

From what you are saying i think you would be suited to an amplified set up and parhaps just hide the amplifier under the seats or in the spare wheel well. The cabling coming through the bulk head is easy enough to hide so no one will ever know its there.

You dont need to shy away from subwoofers thinking that they will rattle the clio to death. We recently did a Diamond system in a customers dynamique and its sounds the mutts nutts. We sealed and deadened most of the back panel work and there is absolutely no panel rattle at all. Perhaps look at fitting a small 8" woofer somewhere, it will provide nice clear sq bass but is easy enough to hide.

I would also say if you did not want the woofer to look at fitting some good quality components upfront. You will need to amp them but again this can easily be hidden.

Some of the more pricey headunits come with alot more control in them. Alot of them offer full LPF and HPF settings for fronts and rears eliminating the need to build your own filters. Perhaps upgrading your head unit will help with the clarity and volume.

Nominalpower does mean RMS and deadening your doors will go quite some way to improving the sound you already have, certainly worth putting to the top of your list!
 
  172
Thanks very much for the reply! (and the patience sifting through my rambling post :p ) It would seem then that amping the components is the way forward (also forgot to mention full boot space is more important than audio to me)


1) If I amp the components will they be able to handle more treble/bass OR volume before they distort?? The only alternative to this outcome would be that the speakers are already producing all that they can manage, though surely not if they're 25/130w on a 16/50w supply?

2) How would I go about selecting an appropriate spec amplifier? I gather I'd be after a two-channel amp? Even the cheapest amps offer 65w RMS @ 4 ohms and 400w ish max. Given my speakers are only 25/130w surely any amp would do in terms of power?

3) Thought it won't prevent distortion (?) deadening seems a relatively inexpensive way to give your car quite a bit better acoustical properties?


I have to say whilst a normal amp seems to be the cheaper AND better way (in terms of expandability, output and SQ) the alpine power pack is looking very attractive from the simplicity, OEM-look and no-decisions-neccessary point of view. It's very tempting to wait for one of these to come up second hand. Thanks in advance, again :)
 
  Ph1 - 172
1) Amping the front speakers will improve them massively. You will get alot better volume and clarity however.........


2) The speakers you have in the front at the moment are not really good enough to be run from an amp. If you were to amp them up you will damage them. The cheapest good quality amps will give you 40W RMS at 4ohm minimum so look for some speakers with an RMS around 55-60W minimum if you want to amp them.


3) Distortion is created by the speakers themselves being driven past there safe operating point ( this will damage them in the long run). This has nothing to do with deadening. Deadening will stop body rattle and give you a fuller sounding speaker.


The alpine power pack is in essence a very simple amplifier that is limited to alpine stereo's. It is just as easy to find an amplifier and fit that with a little bit of help. If i were you i would do the following:

Deaden the front doors
Uprate the front speakers to some decent componants
amp up the front speakers
uprate the headunit
fit a sub

Do it in that order and see what you think at each stage, you may find that you get to a point where you are happy just by doing the first two. If you need any advice on speakers or amps just pop a post up, there are plenty of guys that will help you choose.
 
  seat ibiza cupra
im not too sure on ur budget but doesnt seem like you want to spend alot and already been mentioned that an sq setup isnt cheap to do well.

if you want oem looking that doesnt require crossover i would look at the hybrid audio imagine's 6.5" comps. they are fantastic they look standard and dont use crossovers and can be run passive or active.
i would then look at a 4 channel amp and run in an active setup running each part so (comp,comp, tweeter, tweeter) all of there own channel to one give more sound volume but also more gains over control so can produce a sound u want.

i also would slope ur hpf from 300hz that seems to high, i would be lookign at the 80-100 hz level !

a set of hybrid audio comps alog side a sundown 100.4 or 50.4 amp would be really nice!
 


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