Donnington Track Fun, Until Engine Died - Help Appreciated!

[Dan1987wales]

Evening all!

So as the title suggests I was at Donnington Monday just gone - had a brilliant day with the Clio 172 going well after new suspension & alignment amongst other bits…

Anyway after a good chunk of laps I came into the garage where the car was idling funny and then cut out. It would then start, idle badly and then cut out again.

Further investigation pointed to a failed injector (pulling the electrical connector off one of them did nothing to the idle - where as the others did)

I proper nice bloke not far away called Mick at Diamond Renault in Long Eaton leant me a full fuel rail (legend!), but weirdly this didn’t sort it?!

It was then getting worse - would only start with a boot full of accelerator and was idling terribly. I took the inlet manifold off and checked the spark plugs and they were black dirty (dry though). When idling it was making funny noises, almost sounded like the induction noise when normally accelerating, the noise coming and then going away (weird!). We checked the plugs and they were all getting spark though.

If I held the revs up it wouldn’t stall and would drive ok so I decided to just send it (probably a bad idea in hindsight!) and then it died on track, spluttered to nothing and cut out, red stop light on the dash and I had to get towed back! 🤦🏻‍♂️

Any ideas anyone? I’ve bought a compression tester to check i haven’t properly killed the engine and if all goes ok, I’m thinking new coil pack, leads, spark plugs and injectors?

Any pointers on what else to check would be massively appreciated! 🙏🏻

Cheers!

 

[daveski]

Can't help with your issue but I was at Donington on Monday and the car looked great.

And Mick is indeed a legend!

 

[Dan1987wales]

Can't help with your issue but I was at Donington on Monday and the car looked great.

And Mick is indeed a legend!

Thanks - it was great, until it wasn’t! 🤦🏻‍♂️ Such a good track Donny!

Yep Mick was a gent, wouldn’t take any money / beer either…

 

[Typhoon]

@MicKPM is the Mick you’re on about. Top man!

 

[Brigsy]

If you had fuel and spark on the bad running cylinder, id expect the worst especially with injector swapped for verified.

Comp test will soon tell.

 

[Advikaz]

Car looks good

On another note.

 

[Dan1987wales]

Thanks @Brigsy @Advikaz

I have sneaky suspicion it’s engine rebuild time 😕

What am I looking for compression text wise - 180-190 across all 4 (10-15% variation max?)

How low would be acceptable reading wise if they are within the same range?

Thanks 👍🏻

 

[clio_cup]

Not that it’s going to help you mr problem, what are the ducts you have on the front?

 

[npt]

So it was running rough as toast then you went back on track 😂🫣 could be a fuel issue

 

[Brigsy]

Thanks @Brigsy @Advikaz

I have sneaky suspicion it’s engine rebuild time 😕

What am I looking for compression text wise - 180-190 across all 4 (10-15% variation max?)

How low would be acceptable reading wise if they are within the same range?

Thanks 👍🏻

Id expect 170+ on each cyl. Itll be a lot lower on the problem cylinder if issues, 100 or less.

 

[Louis]

https://cliosport.net/threads/182-f4r-engine-and-refurbished-jc5-130-gearbox-%C2%A3850.853713/#post-12750453

👀

 

[Dan1987wales]

Not that it’s going to help you mr problem, what are the ducts you have on the front?

I don’t know sorry, they were there when I bought the car - just had a look back to the original advert & it just says bumper ducts 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

[Dan1987wales]

So it was running rough as toast then you went back on track 😂🫣 could be a fuel issue

Yes I am that guy….

 

[Dan1987wales]

Id expect 170+ on each cyl. Itll be a lot lower on the problem cylinder if issues, 100 or less.

Thanks - the other times you’ve replied to any of my questions / issues you’ve always been right…. I hope you’re not this time! 😆

Although it’s just an excuse to improve and upgrade if the engine is dead….

 

[Dan1987wales]

So I’ve found some time this afternoon to get in the garage with a Sunday beer..

Bought a compression test kit (eBay special) and did a compression test - first time I’ve done it, so I first did it only removing one spark plug at a time, then did some reading and did it with all plugs out.

Both times I got pretty much bang on 100psi across all four cylinders - so reading low, but all reading the same…

Is it my cheap eBay kit? / am I doing something wrong? / can every cylinder be dead?

I put it all back together and checked the HT leads were right - plugged them in 1- 4 from the airbox side with the corresponding numbers on the coil pack & buttoned everything up.

Took a couple of times to start but it started and runs like sh*t - when I give it some revs it sounds really ‘inductiony’ and then falls to low Revs and cuts out - now won’t start.

The red STOP has gone off the dash which is a bonus though 😆

Things I’m thinking about:

Sounds overly inductiony and runs rough when revving at idle

I have lost a bolt on the manilfold where it meets the cat - could it be this?

4 out of 3 spark plugs look terrible….

Only other thing is one of the bolts on the intake is struggling to tighten - clutching at straws maybe, but could this be not helping?

My layman’s brain feels like it’s fuel related, which is why it’s cutting out & it sounds overly inductiony even at light revs because it’s getting too much air and not enough fuel? 🤷🏻‍♂️

Or at 100psi across all four cylinders is it f**ked!

I’m an amateur on the spanner’s at best, but would like to preserver / learn, so any help is massively appreciated as always?!

Cheers 👍🏻

 

[Louis]

If they're all the same I wouldn't worry about it being low. You care about consistency mainly, especially with cheap kits.

 

[Louis]

Did you replace those spark plugs? Are all HT leads actually OK?

 

[Dan1987wales]

If they're all the same I wouldn't worry about it being low. You care about consistency mainly, especially with cheap kits.

Thanks - I was hoping this….

 

[Dan1987wales]

Did you replace those spark plugs? Are all HT leads actually OK?

No I was thinking compression test first before I start spending cash on it - maybe it’s now time for new coil pack, leads, plugs and injectors 🤔

 

[Louis]

No I was thinking compression test first before I start spending cash on it - maybe it’s now time for new coil pack, leads, plugs and injectors 🤔

Id definitely start with new plugs at the very least. Check your injectors resistance with a multimeter and note back what they are. Make sure theyre all cold though

 

[Louis]

You also routed the HT leads correctly? If you trap one they run like a sack of s**t.

 

[Dan1987wales]

You also routed the HT leads correctly? If you trap one they run like a sack of s**t.

Cheers mate! Will try new plugs & check leads 👍🏻

 

[Martin_172]

Open the throttle or remove the throttle body for your compression test.

The induction noise was the first thing I noticed at idle on my RSI when I lost compression on 2 cylinders.

 

[Mr Trailer Man]

Open the throttle or remove the throttle body for your compression test.

The induction noise was the first thing I noticed at idle on my RSI when I lost compression on 2 cylinders.

The inlet will be off if he's doing a compression test 😅

 

[Matt Cup]

The inlet will be off if he's doing a compression test 😅

Still, remove the throttle body, just to be sure 😂

 

[Mr Trailer Man]

Those spark plugs are the wrong ones.

You need NGK PFR6E-10.

 

[Matt Cup]

Those spark plugs are the wrong ones.

You need NGK PFR6E-10.

Why is this engine so sensitive to spark plugs?

 

[Louis]

BKR6E are offered as a compatible plug in the NGK brochure afaik

 

[Mr Trailer Man]

Why is this engine so sensitive to spark plugs?

Not sure mate tbh.

Just what they were designed to use i suppose.

 

[Mr Trailer Man]

BKR6E are offered as a compatible plug in the NGK brochure afaik

Interesting.

Not seen that.

They need changing either way, 3 are fouled and one looks a bit weird maybe lean.

 

[Louis]

Interesting.

Not seen that.

They need changing either way, 3 are fouled and one looks a bit weird maybe lean.

100%. Don't know why you wouldn't ever use the correct plug

 

[Mr Trailer Man]

100%. Don't know why you wouldn't ever use the correct plug

NGK list the BKR6EZ as the plug for the 1.4/1.6 but they have a single ground strap, not twin like his ones 🤔

 

[PerthRS]

So I’ve found some time this afternoon to get in the garage with a Sunday beer..

Bought a compression test kit (eBay special) and did a compression test - first time I’ve done it, so I first did it only removing one spark plug at a time, then did some reading and did it with all plugs out.

Both times I got pretty much bang on 100psi across all four cylinders - so reading low, but all reading the same…

Is it my cheap eBay kit? / am I doing something wrong? / can every cylinder be dead?

I put it all back together and checked the HT leads were right - plugged them in 1- 4 from the airbox side with the corresponding numbers on the coil pack & buttoned everything up.

Took a couple of times to start but it started and runs like sh*t - when I give it some revs it sounds really ‘inductiony’ and then falls to low Revs and cuts out - now won’t start.

The red STOP has gone off the dash which is a bonus though 😆

Things I’m thinking about:

Sounds overly inductiony and runs rough when revving at idle

I have lost a bolt on the manilfold where it meets the cat - could it be this?

View attachment 1766839

4 out of 3 spark plugs look terrible….

View attachment 1766840

Only other thing is one of the bolts on the intake is struggling to tighten - clutching at straws maybe, but could this be not helping?

My layman’s brain feels like it’s fuel related, which is why it’s cutting out & it sounds overly inductiony even at light revs because it’s getting too much air and not enough fuel? 🤷🏻‍♂️

Or at 100psi across all four cylinders is it f**ked!

I’m an amateur on the spanner’s at best, but would like to preserver / learn, so any help is massively appreciated as always?!

Cheers 👍🏻

With a decent compression tester tool. You'd be looking at 170-190psi if the engine is healthy. If the test is performed with the engine cold, expect 5-10psi lower (hot is preferable).
Figures may be skewed with a cheap tool. But as long as the figures are within ~10% variability.


Before firing the parts cannon.
Since you haven't mentioned it yet. Check the timing.
If you don't have a crank locking pin. Remove cyl 1 (gearbox end) sparkplug and rest a screwdriver on the pistons crown. Manually wrench the crank until it's at TDC. Then remove the rubber cam caps. Inspect the cams. You should see both cam timing tool slots inline with each other. Smaller crescent towards the bottom.
If this what you see. The timing is not your concern.

 

[Martin_172]

The inlet will be off if he's doing a compression test 😅

Apologies I've not worked on a 172 for years, I done a compression test on a 197 last week and had to remove the throttle body which is why it was fresh on my mind!

 

[Mr Trailer Man]

Apologies I've not worked on a 172 for years, I done a compression test on a 197 last week and had to remove the throttle body which is why it was fresh on my mind!

Yeah that makes sense.

 

[Matt Cup]

Do 197 inlets fit straight onto 1#2 heads?

 

[PerthRS]

Do 197 inlets fit straight onto 1#2 heads?

Pretty sure they have a different mounting bolt pattern.