Doom!

[Welsh.Dan]

Yeah. I think it's great.... Refreshing from all the over produced, over hyped and overly dramatic/cinematic fps of late. As good as they all are, it's nice to play some simple, no frills, pure balls out game play!!

I've just finished Argent tower this morning, great so far... Busy with diy now though!
I really like the animations when you acquire a new weapon... Gets me all exited!ha ha

Multi is ok Andy, I don't personally think it'd work so well on console, or maybe that's just preference as I'm a gimp on a pad! Lol.
It's very much a mouse and keyboard, quake 3 arena style MP experience. Very good, but very PC.
I want a pc! Lol

 

[SharkyUK]

YBusy with diy now though!

Ah I see, the missus has spoken... :tonguewink:

 

[Welsh.Dan]

Ah I see, the missus has spoken... :tonguewink:

Ha ha. Nah not quite, I'm paving the back garden. Having to lift 45 m2 of slabs and then relay nice new ones is going to take some work!! I need to get cracking! The garage is overrun with 3 pallets of slabs.... So sooner I get it emptied the sooner I get my garage space back and the sooner I can smash more doom [emoji41] [emoji106]
Don't know why I take these projects on.... Oh wait, I do... It's because I'm tight [emoji23]

 

[Darren S]

It's a hardware hog alright!

Only managed a couple of minutes this morning, but it's the first game that I've got to drop the 2560x1440 resolution back down to standard HD resolution with. It had that much of an impact on performance, that it's virtually unplayable at that scale on the GTX690. G-Sync appears to do a great job in trying to cope though. Rather than be the choppy mess that a usual over-stretched gfx card is, this just appears that you're playing in treacle slo-mo.

One thing that I've never seen before either - an perhaps this might be an OpenGL feature? @SharkyUK. Testing SLi with games is like a light switch - yes or no. On my setup I get a game that doesn't recognise SLi simply using one GPU and 2GB of gfx memory. When a game does recognise it - all four GPUs are used and portions of the 8GB (4x 2GB units) all get used. With DOOM, I get just one GPU being used - yet all four sections of the gfx memory are being utilised also. How it does this, I have no idea. Either that, or nvinspect is misinterpreting the feedback of the game.

 

[AdDaMan]

I got to the last level (I think) and am officially bored of it.

 

[SharkyUK]

So sooner I get it emptied the sooner I get my garage space back and the sooner I can smash more doom

Well, I've finally completed the single player with ALL secrets found. It took me 30 hours give or take and I only had to look for help on one secret (which I would have never found without looking for help on the interwebz). The last boss fight was frustrating on the higher difficulty but I managed to stick with it and kicked its ass. :tonguewink:

One thing that I've never seen before either - an perhaps this might be an OpenGL feature? @SharkyUK. Testing SLi with games is like a light switch - yes or no. On my setup I get a game that doesn't recognise SLi simply using one GPU and 2GB of gfx memory. When a game does recognise it - all four GPUs are used and portions of the 8GB (4x 2GB units) all get used. With DOOM, I get just one GPU being used - yet all four sections of the gfx memory are being utilised also. How it does this, I have no idea. Either that, or nvinspect is misinterpreting the feedback of the game.

A game has to be developed with SLI in mind to be able to support it (there are flags and settings to set via the API) and a suitable profile is often needed too. You can't just expect a game using a single GPU to take advantage of a second GPU should one be available (unless the software is specifically programmed to do so).

As for Doom performance in general, it has been found to be quite gentle on the CPU side of things; i.e. those with weaker CPU's and decent GPU's with be able to enjoy the game without issue. It is also supposed to be very well optimised in general. That said, the lead developer did post a few interesting notes when the game was released. Most notable was that iD Tech 6 (the game engine) is used for the first time with Doom 2016 and it supports multi-GPU. In fact, Doom arguably supports multiple GPUs but it's a little flaky at the moment. Said lead developer stated that patches will be forthcoming that improve the performance for SLI setups and I believe there may be an nVidia SLI profile available already for the game. Based on what was said, it could well be that it's recognising the multiple GPUs in your system but not optimally utilising them at the moment. It will be interesting to see what improvements will come when the Vulkan version is released... potentially good things.

nVidia is the card manufacturer to support if you want the best experience at present. There are known issues with AMD GPUs and - again - it is believed to be driver issues rather than poor hardware.

 

[Darren S]

I hope you're right in improving it m8. Played a bit this evening and the performance wasn't the best - even when set to Medium across the board and down to 1920. I think this game and GTAV have proven the limits of the GTX690 - the small amount of memory being the killer.

Inside, it plays ok. Outside, the engine is being strangled. Worse, it's not a patch on the velvety loveliness of Warframe - which copes in any environment. No doubt when the Ultra settings are defaulted on hardware that's capable - DOOM really shines.

Might be one that I'll have to come back to!

 

[Welsh.Dan]

And that's the one thing I don't miss about pc gaming [emoji4] compatibility and hardware/software issues etc.

Consoles are lovely and lazy, plug and play. Even if they do look utter shite in comparison. [emoji23]

 

[Darren S]

And that's the one thing I don't miss about pc gaming [emoji4] compatibility and hardware/software issues etc.

Consoles are lovely and lazy, plug and play. Even if they do look utter shite in comparison. [emoji23]

I know exactly what you're saying. But for me - the entire opposite is the reason why I like PCs more.

My comments about DOOM's performance would be negated tomorrow if I went out and fitted a 970/980 card to my PC. There was many a time I got frustrated with 360 games and sometimes those on the PS3 too - where graphical issues were a put-up-and-shut-up situation. Screen tearing was perhaps the worst I regularly came across - and limitations were obvious where the hardware simply had nothing else to give.

GTAV really shouldn't have been released on the 360, yet it was. Impressive as the R* team were with their coding, the cracks were there to see.

Having a hardware limiting factor issue and being able to 'fix it' - is a main driver for me sticking with PCs.

 

[Welsh.Dan]

Yeah. I always loved my pcs. I will come back to pc sometime... But Tbf I don't game so much these days to warrant the constant upgrades required.
Hardware envy was always an issue for me.... Lusting for more power, better cards etc. I was never content with what I had!
Anyway dragging off topic...
Looking forward to my next doom session. Want to find the original doom sections too.
Playing doom kinda makes me want to download quake series on laptop. Nostalgia [emoji4] [emoji106]

 

[SharkyUK]

I hope you're right in improving it m8. Played a bit this evening and the performance wasn't the best - even when set to Medium across the board and down to 1920. I think this game and GTAV have proven the limits of the GTX690 - the small amount of memory being the killer.

Inside, it plays ok. Outside, the engine is being strangled. Worse, it's not a patch on the velvety loveliness of Warframe - which copes in any environment. No doubt when the Ultra settings are defaulted on hardware that's capable - DOOM really shines.

Might be one that I'll have to come back to!

According to what I've read, the GTX690 should be able to play at 1080p at around 60fps as long as a couple of settings are adhered to... namely the turning off of AA and dropping of shadows to Low. It transpires that the shadowing is a bit of a hog (which doesn't surprise me) and it's also an issue that affects SLI scaling. This is one of the areas that forthcoming patches are looking to fix. Again, according to what I've read, by dropping the settings as I've stated you can get then set a mix of high and ultra settings elsewhere and enjoy good performance around the 60fps mark. Obviously I've not experienced this first hand!

On the subject of environment, there's also another known oddity (in terms of outdoor environments). Whilst silky-smooth indoors, the engine isn't properly utilising the GPU when in outdoor environments... even on cards that can easily handle them. The bottom line is that the outdoor environments are not utilising the GPU anywhere near as effectively as the indoor areas and there's headroom for extracting a good chunk more performance. The difference is not noticeable on high-end cards as 60fps+ is still easily achieved [even though the GPU is under utilised] but naturally this is more evident on older cards where they don't have the brute force rendering power to compensate.

 

[16v_er]

I recommend starting this on ultra violence setting as I find the "hurt me plenty" setting abit too easy.

 

[SharkyUK]

Another video I made last night (no more after this, I promise, maybe) showing pretty much the same - more gratuitous violence and OpenGL-driven prettiness. I love the Super Shotgun



There shouldn't be any spoilers in it.

 

[Welsh.Dan]

Sweet!!
Great video as always.... It's looks so damn sexy and smooth!
Your really making me lust for a pc you swine! [emoji23]

 

[Darren S]

Another video I made last night (no more after this, I promise, maybe) showing pretty much the same - more gratuitous violence and OpenGL-driven prettiness. I love the Super Shotgun :smile:



There shouldn't be any spoilers in it.

Yep - no way is mine that smooth!

Tbf - I've not made those adjustments you suggested earlier, so I'll give that a go first.

 

[charltjr]

Enjoying this a lot. It's refreshing to have a balls-out shooter with modern graphics and gameplay that actually works.

It's running at a solid 60fps on my machine, 1080p, ultra preset, GTX 970 (albeit a mildly factory-overclocked Asus Strix card)

I'm playing on Hurt Me Plenty and it's a fraction easy, but I'm still getting killed occasionally. TBH I'm not actually very good at games, I do enjoy them, but after a couple of decades of gaming I've got to admit I'm not all that good

 

[SharkyUK]

Your really making me lust for a pc you swine! [emoji23]

Don't you be blaming me! Get back and finish your DIY you tight git... LOL! :tonguewink:

Yep - no way is mine that smooth!

Tbf - I've not made those adjustments you suggested earlier, so I'll give that a go first.

No need to adjust anything with the forthcoming system upgrades... just whack it on Ultra and enjoy!

I'm playing on Hurt Me Plenty and it's a fraction easy, but I'm still getting killed occasionally. TBH I'm not actually very good at games, I do enjoy them, but after a couple of decades of gaming I've got to admit I'm not all that good :smiley:

As long as you enjoy them it doesn't matter mate Job done. I agree with you though in that Hurt Me Plenty is a little on the easy side though so it's best to start on the next difficulty up (or higher).

 

[Darren S]

I'm playing on Hurt Me Plenty and it's a fraction easy, but I'm still getting killed occasionally. TBH I'm not actually very good at games, I do enjoy them, but after a couple of decades of gaming I've got to admit I'm not all that good :smiley:

As Sharky says - as long as you enjoy them, that's the main thing. I personally like to get the balance between a challenge and it being fun. Slogging away at a section/enemy/puzzle that has to have the perfect combination of moves in a set time, just annoys me. That's memory muscle over fun, to me.

 

[iain187]

I like that you actually have to search for your objective now and again.

There was a bit by chance I think I ripped off someone's arm to use his handprint but I did it all by chance then when you have to go get a keycard to go through a door etc

Where as CoD is just move forward and kill usually

 

[16v_er]

After playing this for a few days I gotta say it is superb. I was unsure at first but as you progress through it and start getting hammered by all the demons of old doom it is proper addictive. Collecting the secrets, getting classic doom maps is great. Multiplayer is ok. Too fast and lacks objective based game modes. However the campaign for me alone makes it a 9/10. Still haven't finished it either yet!

 

[Gareth]

Admittedly I haven't put much time into it so far, but I haven't gelled with it yet. I'll try and get some more time in and hopefully it will open up.

 

[16v_er]

Playing it in the dark with the sound/headphones cranked up is what makes me enjoy it more.

 

[SharkyUK]

A new patch is out for DOOM; it adds Vulkan support (so you can either run it using OpenGL or Vulkan). There seems to be a nice little improvement for some AMD cards whereas nVidia are showing no improvements whatsoever (even a slight decrease of 1-2fps). It's believed a new nVidia driver update will be on the way soon.

 

[Darren S]

A new patch is out for DOOM; it adds Vulkan support (so you can either run it using OpenGL or Vulkan). There seems to be a nice little improvement for some AMD cards whereas nVidia are showing no improvements whatsoever (even a slight decrease of 1-2fps). It's believed a new nVidia driver update will be on the way soon.

I meant to ask you Andy regarding the Vulkan support in DOOM. I noticed that option within the settings, but had left it on OpenGL. I simply assumed that any Vulkan 'benefit' would be seen by the AMD users and not by the nVidia camp?

 

[SharkyUK]

I meant to ask you Andy regarding the Vulkan support in DOOM. I noticed that option within the settings, but had left it on OpenGL. I simply assumed that any Vulkan 'benefit' would be seen by the AMD users and not by the nVidia camp?

Both AMD and nVidia users should see a benefit from switching to Vulkan. Having spent a bit of time earlier looking at the various performance results posted on the Net (tricky given the rampant fanboi s**t) it seems that results are... peculiar. There's definitely an advantage for AMD users (and arguably those with less powerful CPUs). This could well be due to the reduced driver overheads that Vulkan brings to the table. Vulkan also has Async Compute (AC) enabled for GCN architectures and this would likely result in a performance increase (although it's hard to categorically state just how much of an improvement it affords). In the current state, AC is not enabled for nVidia hardware and this will need a bit of tweaking in (I believe) both the DOOM software and nVidia driver (hence I'd expect further Vulkan-based patches in the near future). My expectation is that the improved performance is more down to reductions in overhead rather than AC.

Another interesting thing is that I didn't really notice any difference when I had a quick play with both the OpenGL and Vulkan versions earlier. They both run and look fantastic. So I thought I'd enable the performance metrics and see if I could notice any difference. Well... yes, there is actually quite a substantial difference in some places (and a fairly healthy improvement across the board) if the stats are to be believed. On 1080p I have everything on Ultra (with Shadows and Virtual Texture Pages on 'Nightmare') and it runs a good 20-30fps faster in a lot of places. I even enjoy a maxing out at 200fps in some areas. I'm yet to see it dip below 100fps which, if I'm being honest, is bloody impressive. Knocking it up to 1200p doesn't make much difference to performance as it still whizzes along at an incredible frame rate well north of 100fps. Even at 1440p it's comfortably maintaining 85fps+ without issue with regular visits north of 100fps.

I don't really know where I'm going with this at the moment (!); the benefits reported online seem to vary so wildly. Some nVidia users notice no difference, some have negative scaling issues, some have tremendous improvements. It's hard to say right now what benefit there is and who is likely to benefit from switching to Vulkan. On a separate note I've noticed a couple of issues with the Vulkan rendering (z-fighting and decal issues) but other than that it seems business as usual.

Interestingly it was nVidia showing the benefits of Vulkan over the weeks / months leading up to the release of the [DOOM] game...

 

[Darren S]

Both AMD and nVidia users should see a benefit from switching to Vulkan. Having spent a bit of time earlier looking at the various performance results posted on the Net (tricky given the rampant fanboi s**t) it seems that results are... peculiar. There's definitely an advantage for AMD users (and arguably those with less powerful CPUs). This could well be due to the reduced driver overheads that Vulkan brings to the table. Vulkan also has Async Compute (AC) enabled for GCN architectures and this would likely result in a performance increase (although it's hard to categorically state just how much of an improvement it affords). In the current state, AC is not enabled for nVidia hardware and this will need a bit of tweaking in (I believe) both the DOOM software and nVidia driver (hence I'd expect further Vulkan-based patches in the near future). My expectation is that the improved performance is more down to reductions in overhead rather than AC.

Another interesting thing is that I didn't really notice any difference when I had a quick play with both the OpenGL and Vulkan versions earlier. They both run and look fantastic. So I thought I'd enable the performance metrics and see if I could notice any difference. Well... yes, there is actually quite a substantial difference in some places (and a fairly healthy improvement across the board) if the stats are to be believed. On 1080p I have everything on Ultra (with Shadows and Virtual Texture Pages on 'Nightmare') and it runs a good 20-30fps faster in a lot of places. I even enjoy a maxing out at 200fps in some areas. I'm yet to see it dip below 100fps which, if I'm being honest, is bloody impressive. Knocking it up to 1200p doesn't make much difference to performance as it still whizzes along at an incredible frame rate well north of 100fps. Even at 1440p it's comfortably maintaining 85fps+ without issue with regular visits north of 100fps.

I don't really know where I'm going with this at the moment (!); the benefits reported online seem to vary so wildly. Some nVidia users notice no difference, some have negative scaling issues, some have tremendous improvements. It's hard to say right now what benefit there is and who is likely to benefit from switching to Vulkan. On a separate note I've noticed a couple of issues with the Vulkan rendering (z-fighting and decal issues) but other than that it seems business as usual.

Interestingly it was nVidia showing the benefits of Vulkan over the weeks / months leading up to the release of the [DOOM] game...

Sounds like a mixed bag at the moment. Do you think Vulkan has the potential to be a direct alternative to OpenGL? I've no idea if one or the other is easier to program for - but given the long life that OpenGL already has had - I guessing it has a much wider and accepted user base?

I might have a dabble on mine - see how it fares. Put another hour into it just now - it is a cracking game!

 

[SharkyUK]

Sounds like a mixed bag at the moment. Do you think Vulkan has the potential to be a direct alternative to OpenGL? I've no idea if one or the other is easier to program for - but given the long life that OpenGL already has had - I guessing it has a much wider and accepted user base?

I might have a dabble on mine - see how it fares. Put another hour into it just now - it is a cracking game!

Vulkan is not so much an alternative to OpenGL, it's more an evolution of the API to bring it up-to-date and in line with modern hardware and architectures. Originally, Vulkan was referred to as OpenGL Next Generation (or glNext, or [wrongly] OpenGL 5) but at some point the decision was made to make a clean break to a separate entity. OpenGL will be around for a long time to come; it is an industry standard, is extensively used by businesses around the world and continues to have a lot of support. OpenGL will continue to be developed but it is very much a higher-level API (making it easier to work with for the mainstream software engineer or non-specialist programmers out there).

Vulkan is a very much different beast to OpenGL (in much the same way that DirectX12 is very different to, say, DirectX11). It's not so easy just to jump into Vulkan and write your application as it requires a much greater understanding of the hardware you are working on and experience in working safely and robustly with multi-core/threaded and asynchronous architectures. The main advantage to developers of games (and other high-performing applications) is the fact that they have a much lower-level of control. It allows the developer a much finer-grained view of the system at a level much closer to the hardware, and allows for very specific optimisations. However, this necessitates a greater amount of development effort up-front along with an increase of the complexity of the software being written. The developer is, in effect, taking over the role of the driver and writing optimised routines for their application rather than relying on a generic driver routine to do the grunt work on their behalf.

The Vulkan API is based around the asynchronous creation of command buffers over multiple threads and then the sequenced processing of those buffers to a command pipeline. This very much reflects how modern hardware works. However, with Vulkan the driver does NOT handle any of this stuff for you. The developer has to take care of thread and memory management in a much more hands-on fashion, etc. The details are beyond the scope of this discussion (and I've not looked into the API in any real depth as yet) but I do expect it to gain popularity. It's important to note that Vulkan is not just a 'graphics' thing; it's as much about general computation as it is rendering performance. Remember, as GPUs become faster and more advanced they also become more and more general purpose-like, opening up their incredible processing capabilities to more advanced use - for physics, deep learning, fluid dynamic computation, audio processing, etc. Vulkan is as much about supporting the 'compute' side of things as it is the 'rendering' aspects.

 

[Darren S]

Did you manage to get all the secrets on this Andy? @SharkyUK

Even with the full map revealed and the warning sensor on the compass - I'm finding a lot of the secrets pretty tricky to locate.

For the most part I give up. I'd rather be emptying lead into the hordes of Hell than worry about triple-jumping at the right time to reach a certain ledge!

Also, the checkpoint saves annoy me. They are literally 5 seconds before they need to be. The amount of times I've had to redo 5 minutes or so, simply because I didn't double-jump just right. Then when I finally make it across, the 'checkpoint saved' message flashes up. FFS! :tongueout:

 

[iain187]

I've found about 2 secrets (but I haven't been looking)
I'd quite like to play the classic maps, but I think the days of cheat codes are gone

 

[Aaron..]

I started this and wouldn't finish a level until I'd found everything.
I gave up on that after level 4 as some were really annoying.

I think I got to level 6? Where there are massive monsters and got killed a few times. I rage quit and haven't been on since.

 

[SharkyUK]

Did you manage to get all the secrets on this Andy? @SharkyUK

Even with the full map revealed and the warning sensor on the compass - I'm finding a lot of the secrets pretty tricky to locate.

Yes mate, I got all secrets. Like @Aaron.. I didn't go on to the next level until I'd found them all. To be honest, I tend to search out and explore game worlds extensively through habit. I'm not a 'speed' gamer where I want to get through as quickly as possible. I enjoy checking everything out for fun (and also as a bit of professional curiosity). I have to admit that I found the secrets relatively straightforward to locate and not too difficult to get too. The only one I struggled with was, well, one where I had to remember back to Doom 2 and shooting a certain something to release a secret. From the layouts of the maps it was often easy to figure where the secret areas / classic maps were located. I also missed a lever (for a classic map) on one level a few times due to it being in a darkly lit area, but eventually noticed it.

 

[Darren S]

I should have gone for the extra ammo perk. Ammo itself is plentiful - it's the amount you can carry as a default that's the issue.

A lot of the lower-spec weapons are just pointless against even medium enemies. You can use two-thirds of your ammo for it on just one enemy. You definitely have to 'think' more in this game about the ammo you're burning through than you ever did with Doom 1 or 2.

 

[SharkyUK]

Very true regarding the weapons / ammo situation mate. I only really used a few of the weapons throughout the entire game. Once I had the Super Shotgun... well, it made life a lot easier generally. I only used some of the 'weaker' weapons to get the various achievements and rewards.

 

[iain187]

I tend to start with the rocket launcher and the little rockets on the side of the machine gun... I just like rockets maybe hmm

 

[Darren S]

I tend to start with the rocket launcher and the little rockets on the side of the machine gun... I just like rockets maybe hmm

I've barely used any of the secondary weapon attributes - those don't 'feel' like DOOM additions to me. The sole exception to that is the scope on the machine gun - especially to get that perk with the 50 headshots.

Those shitheads with the shields still annoy the crap out of me!

 

[Welsh.Dan]

Yeah... I've started encountering the shield w*****s again and I can't for the life of me figure out a good way to kill them! Any tips?
I tend to roll a grenade behind them and get them with splash damage from a rocket. Surely a better way?

 

[Aaron..]

Yeah... I've started encountering the shield w*****s again and I can't for the life of me figure out a good way to kill them! Any tips?
I tend to roll a grenade behind them and get them with splash damage from a rocket. Surely a better way?

Rocket launcher or the Gauss canon.

 

[iain187]

I keep forgetting to use the chainsaw as well

 

[SharkyUK]

12GB update #2 available...

 

[Darren S]

12GB update #2 available...

Noticed that m8 - just wonderful on my Morse Code broadband!