Drive shafts v lowered ride heights

[iannorth]

Hi

New member here - I have an X reg clio 172 thats has been stripped out for track days - I have new suspesnion on that has lowered the car by approx 100mm

Suspension is [FONT=&amp]a full Bilstein suspension and powerflex bushes - This was installed as springs had broken for MOT. New drive shafts were also fitted. On collecting car from MOT I drove a mile up the road and the drive shaft started making a noise - this was replaced asa faulty part

I have just had the car prepped at a motor sport co who altered the camber from neg to positive - Collecting that car again there was the same noise with drive shaft so took back to the original garage

Their theory is that becuase the car has been lowered the nearside shaft is too long and is hitting the inside of the housing on right hand lock - This is because the Suspension has been lowered - souldnds weird theory to me howevere apparently the Cup shafts are 2mm shorter

Motorsport co said this is rubbish so stuck between a rock and a hard place!

To be fair the car was fine before lowered so could this theory have credence??

Anybody come across it before?

Thanks

ian
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[mark123]

Lowering can cause drive shafts to bottom out in the joints. 100mm is quite a lot.

Try raising it a bit. On later models or cups, I can't remember which. The subframe has the holes the wish bones bolt to 10mm further out so this would potentially fix your problem too.

172 cup driveshafts are longer AFAIK.

 

[krappy]

100mm! Blimey that's a lot of lows.

The theory about the driveshaft being too long is kind of true - however it's not too long just you've lowered the car so much that it is binding or bottoming out as mark123 describes it. You could try loosening off the engine mounts and moving the engine over towards the driver's side to give you a bit more room on the nearside driveshaft, but it is possible that you may just shift the problem over to the other driveshaft. If that doesn't work then I would try raising the car a bit like mark123 suggested - this will give you more room for the driveshaft to operate in.

I had this problem with my 172 - although knocking on hard left hand turns - which was the driveshaft binding and I was only on Konis/Sportlines which would be a max of 40mm lower. I changed to Ktec/Vibratechnics engine mounts and probably moved the engine over slightly to the passenger side during installation and this solved the issue. Friend of mine with a 172 and the same suspension setup/issue as mine just loosened off his oem mounts and moved the engine over and that solved it for him as well. Basically we just gave a bit more room for the driveshaft to work in.

Just one question - why did the motorsport co change the camber from negative to positive? Doesn't make sense to me - unless they were trying to create some room for the driveshaft because it was knocking with neg camber wound on.

 

[iannorth]

Hi -

Thanks to both replies
Brain fade on my part - it was 20mm - not sure why they changed to positive

At the minute garage is going back up by 5mm at a time to see if that makes the difference

Noise was only on right hand curves/bends and at slow speed

It now has new engine mounts as I wondered originally if the first drive shaft was becasue the engine was moving

I'll keep you updated!

 

[Djw John]

Some non genuine driveshafts are too long. Regardless of height.

 

[krappy]

Yeah are they genuine driveshafts?

If genuine driveshafts I wouldn't have thought that at 20mm lower you would have too much trouble, and if you did just loosening off the mounts and pushing the motor over a bit to give more room should solve it. Uprated mounts (Ktec/Vibratechnics) - or new oem mounts if the old ones are properly shagged - will also stop the engine moving around as much so that will help as well.

If non-genuine and too long then that may be your problem...

 

[iannorth]

Thanks

Just got car back - they raised it by 5mm and pushed engine over on its mounts - that seems to have cured it!

Now I just need to keep the shiny side up!

Yeah are they genuine driveshafts?

If genuine driveshafts I wouldn't have thought that at 20mm lower you would have too much trouble, and if you did just loosening off the mounts and pushing the motor over a bit to give more room should solve it. Uprated mounts (Ktec/Vibratechnics) - or new oem mounts if the old ones are properly shagged - will also stop the engine moving around as much so that will help as well.

If non-genuine and too long then that may be your problem...

 

[krappy]

Good to hear

 

[JürgenRS]

Hello everybody!
I unfortunately have the same problem, vibration and knocking noise by hard left turning, after changing to eibach sportline lowering springs.
We will try to loosening the engine mounts and moving the engine to the left side.

My question:
How much we can/should move the engine to solve the problem?
I dont want to have the same problem on the opposite side after too much engine mooving.

Could you help me please with your experiences?

Thanks a lot!!!

 

[Coops Mk1]

I've had similar issues, I just removed the circlip from the outer CV joints so the outer joint could sit further on the shaft, effectively shortening both driveshaft's.

run like this for 3 years on one side and just done the other side earlier this year and its been fine, done multiple track days too etc.

I tested by loosening hub nut and loading the suspension then seeing if I could slide the shaft in and out, before I removed the circlips there was no play at all, removed them and I had 5mm on both sides with suspension loaded (obviously did the hub nuts back up after the test, lol!) and the vibrations have since gone completely.

 

[JürgenRS]

Hello Coops Turbo,
thank you for your fast reply!
I will try to explain that at my Renault service date this afternoon.
(They have no idea how to solve my problem, expecting remove the Eibach springs! NO CHANCE to give them back )

Any risks by removing the circlip? I mean, the circlip has some function to fulfill, isn´t it?
Have you done it by the outer joints of both drive shafts?
Thanks again!

 

[Coops Mk1]

in theory yes there is a risk as the clip holds the outer joint on the shaft, but with my setup there is no way the shaft could elongate on suspension droop enough to allow the end of the splined section to come out of the CV joint cup. and as the spline is tight anyway (had to use a fairly hefty hammer to both remove and refit the CV joint assembly) its not going anywhere

as mentioned I have run like this for several years on just the passenger side and recently done the drivers too and its been fine for road and track use.

I cannot however say it will be risk free for your application so it would need testing fully before committing to using this technique

 

[JürgenRS]

I will explain them and will tell you about the wondered/shocked faces at Renault!
Thank you for your feedback Coops!

 

[JürgenRS]

I am driving a 172 ph2 and have found out that the 172 ph1 has shorter drive shafts.
Could somevody confirm me this info and give me maybe the partnumber of the ph1 drive shaft?
Thx!!
Maybe that could solve the problem.