Electric power steering

[M4D M4X]

I've searched for the answer but couldn't find nothing regarding my query.

I'm building a track car and removing my PAS from the engine side to free up some extra power, what i want to do is fit EPAS out of a dci/16v 1.2 and fit the hole lot (rack,column) but what my concern is what does the ecu for the EPAS system actually do?

I've seen a column on eBay and i can see 2 wires coming out of the motor so i'm guessing that's the power supply?
Could i wire up a 12v power supply without the ECU and have it working purely on a on/off switch?

My plan is to have EPAS via a centre console on/off switch so it's easier for me to mounover in tight confined spaces when needed.

Thanks in advance
Damien

 

[Sean6545]

Its variable steering. So the lower speed your doing the lighter it gets etc. the speed signal probably comes via the canbus/ muiltiplex system. Thats going to be your problem. Thought about fitting a ehpas system from a dci kangoo?

 

[105e]

Surely you could just have a power supply with ( forget the technical name) like a light switch that dims, this would give the adjustability, did this when i fitted corsa eps to my mk1 golf.

 

[Sean6545]

It has to see a constant signal of vehicle speed which is in a code format.

 

[M4D M4X]

Thanks for the info guys didn't realise that it was speed adjustable, I'd only be using the EPAS at very low speed's about 5mph max so would it still work/help assist with a constant 12v power supply to the motor?
It wouldn't bother me if it was super easy or even a little bit heavy just as long as it helps slightly.

Dont fancy fitting ehpas from a kangoo as i still want to keep the lock to lock the same and don't fancy oil pipes everywhere (going for the clean bare look).

Not sure if it helps but i'm going down the route of itb's so will be using omex 600 loom to run the engine side, and interior i'll only be having a hand full of switches fitted into a custom centre console like
1) heater blower on/off with temp dial
2) 2x fuel pumps switches
3) heated screen (maybe)
4) battery isolator kill switch
5) hazards
6) ignition barrel with std key
7) rear pace lights
8) EPAS on/off
9) lock/unlock doors
I'd still be keeping the standard stalks so will keep the lights/wipers on them and all other wires out of the loom that's not needed will be removed back to the main fuse/relay box.

 

[M4D M4X]

I know its been months since this last thread was used so sorry from bring back up from the dead, as i was on eBay i noticed this
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[/FONT]Renault Clio 2 - Kit - Electric power steering controller box - ECU plug - EPAS[FONT=.Helvetica NeueUI]
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[FONT=.Helvetica NeueUI]I've emailed the guy and he's able to send me one out with a on/off switch instead of a adjustable dial, i'm no electrician but it seams pretty simple for what's needed to make this work but at £50 seams pretty expensive has anybody had one of these? [/FONT]
[FONT=.Helvetica NeueUI]Or maybe since the last time this thread was updated someone has actually got one to work on a on/off switch? [/FONT]
[FONT=.Helvetica NeueUI]
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[FONT=.Helvetica NeueUI]Any info would be great..[/FONT]
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[FONT=.Helvetica NeueUI]Thanks [/FONT]

 

[M4D M4X]

Link not working and can't edit post on phone so here's a eBay no
180984984338


Thanks

 

[Chip-mk1]

If its like a corsa one then it generates a couple of PWM signals to fool the PAS ecu into thinking the car is doing certain engine speeds and wheel speeds.

The parts are only worth about a fiver, but you have to design and build it, so unless you really enjoy that sort of thing just buy one.

 

[M4D M4X]

Cheers chip
Thought it would only be a few quid for the bits (hate electrics with a passion) so i guest it looks like i'll have to bite the bullet and order one .

 

[Chip-mk1]

Cheers chip
Thought it would only be a few quid for the bits (hate electrics with a passion) so i guest it looks like i'll have to bite the bullet and order one .

Its fairly simple stuff, I made a similar thing when I was about 11 or 12, it had a variable controller (just a variable resistor) and gave a PWM output controlled by a 555 timer chip and then I connected it to the wait leg of the processor chip inside my spectrum 48k computer to allow me to slow it down to cheat on games, was quite time consuming though so these days I would just buy one ready made TBH.

 

[M4D M4X]

Wow at 11/12 and you was doing that that's awesome. :hail:

I'll buy one now cheers..

 

[Chip-mk1]

Wow at 11/12 and you was doing that that's awesome. :hail:

Was one of these scientifically gifted type kids apparently.

Must have burnt out early though as I can barely remember people's names these days, FLOL

 

[M4D M4X]

FLOL, Blame the "forgetting names" on age i do..

 

[Chip-mk1]

Flol, me too.

 

[NorthloopCup]

I've got a dci column, ecu and one of those box of tricks installed on my cup. Works very well and easy as to fit! I highly recommend it tbh. BIGASH is going to be running it on his race car as well - he's the one who put me on to it in the first place!

Not so sure I'd have it on a switch though tbh. The rotary dial allows you to set it to what you feel is the right amount of assistance.

 

[M4D M4X]

I didn't want a dial tbh when its on the track i want no assistance at all on the steering so thought a switch would be better for me,

I'd only want assistance while Manoeuvring in tight tight places and it would only be for a short time anyway so flat out easy will do me and make the switch panel look neater.

Cheers dude..

 

[Chip-mk1]

Even on track personally I would want some minor assistance, if you end up in a huge spin you want to be able to get ALL the oppo on as quickly as possible to catch it, and even if you have big manly arms like me, that will still happen quicker with assistance.

 

[Tony Hunter]

Even on track personally I would want some minor assistance, if you end up in a huge spin you want to be able to get ALL the oppo on as quickly as possible to catch it, and even if you have big manly arms like me, that will still happen quicker with assistance.

That's why it's on ours, I tried without, too much like hard work tbh.

Saxo system has been there for 3yrs now, and never given any trouble at all.

 

[Chip-mk1]

That's why it's on ours, I tried without, too much like hard work tbh.

Saxo system has been there for 3yrs now, and never given any trouble at all.

Saxo is probably the way I will go on the mk1 when I put the honda lump in it, but electric columns are good in terms of being adjustable.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Defo put it on a variable switch - no PAS on track is a nightmare

I was going to switch at some point this year to a saxo/106 electric pump, but after seeing James (BIGASH) convert to the dci electric column I'm VERY tempted to do that

It works out at about £100 in parts and then you end up with no hydraulic fluid at all and you can drop the bottom subframe off the car with the rack still attached.. Handy!

 

[Chip-mk1]

IME the only people who think trackcar should have no PAS are people who havent done many trackdays, racers always lose time when they lose it during a race for example!

 

[M4D M4X]

Never thought about the spinning off and needed to opposite lock asap, another thing i was worried about was with the dial turned right down can you still feel the road? as what i've been told electric steering don't give any feedback to the driver.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Never thought about the spinning off and needed to opposite lock asap, another thing i was worried about was with the dial turned right down can you still feel the road? as what i've been told electric steering don't give any feedback to the driver.

Its only an assistance, you still feel things just fine.

Bet this would have ended differently if I didnt have PAS!




lol

 

[Cup_Phil]

^^ That's also my major concern with it

The steering on the Megane 250 I blatted around Brands Hatch was shite - it turned in quickly and handled well but the steering wheel felt like an xbox one - there was no feedback from the road at all

 

[Jay Payne]

^Overly assisted then.

I can only repete what everyone has said. No pas is a s**te idea. Driven a few Clios with it removed/disabled and its horrid. Some sticky tyres and some ability and you'd struggle to hang on in a fast bend.

 

[Chip-mk1]

^^ That's also my major concern with it

The steering on the Megane 250 I blatted around Brands Hatch was s**te - it turned in quickly and handled well but the steering wheel felt like an xbox one - there was no feedback from the road at all

Thats cause its far too assisted, there is a happy middle ground.

 

[Jay Payne]

Thats cause its far too assisted, there is a happy middle ground.

Which is why the dial is an excellent idea. Id love to try one like that to compare to the saxo setup we have. Its brilliant on our car, loads of feel. As Tony said its been on the race car for 3 years and never touched it. Before that the same pump/pipe work was on my trackcar. And it was from a car in the scrappy. Proved its reliability id say

 

[M4D M4X]

Chip
Yeah i suppose that could have ended up quite badly, i'll quickly email the guy and ask him for a dial instead now lol, if need be i could always get tdf to also fit a switch on it when i take the car to them for all the wiring jobs so best of both worlds .

Time will tell i guest.

cheers guys

 

[NorthloopCup]

^Overly assisted then.

I can only repete what everyone has said. No pas is a s**te idea. Driven a few Clios with it removed/disabled and its horrid. Some sticky tyres and some ability and you'd struggle to hang on in a fast bend.

I agree with this entirely! That's one of the reasons I'm giving the epas a try. I like the feel of it so far and free's up a nice bit of space in the engine bay for other things.

 

[BIGASH]

Everyone is correct about needing PAS on circuit, I did a test day last year before a race and was doing 2.01's (on slower tyres) my PAS failed and I raced without it even with the better tyres that make up time I was 2 seconds a lap slower. The wiring kit is really handy and i'm sure if it does what it says on the tin it should be a great system for the track cars like the saxo system that is already proven.

Chip
Yeah i suppose that could have ended up quite badly, i'll quickly email the guy and ask him for a dial instead now lol, if need be i could always get tdf to also fit a switch on it when i take the car to them for all the wiring jobs so best of both worlds .

Time will tell i guest.

cheers guys

Easy enough to wire up a switch for the EPAS circuit

TDF wiring eh... I'd sell the loom that TDF did for me if you are wanting one of their looms?

Proper job

 

[Chip-mk1]

To be fair to tdf they didn't do a bad job assuming they were drunk and using only a fork and a spoon.

 

[M4D M4X]

OMG That's TDF's work on a loom f*ck that (my 2yr old niece could do a better job) cheers for the heads up i'm going else where now, only said them as i also wanted the car dyno'd and possibly itb's setup properly so thought they could do all jobs together.

The guy has confirmed that he's fitting a dial now so hope that with it turned down its still not very easy.
Will have to get cracking with finishing the car now.

Much appreciation for all the info guys.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Fred@btm is closer to you anyway, as is danlp6. Both of whom take pride in their work.

 

[NorthloopCup]

With the dial wound fully anti clockwise you get no assistance at all mate. Wound fully clockwise it gives maximum assistance. It's a piece of cake to wire in mate as well.

 

[M4D M4X]

That's good news with the dial then , will give Fred and dan a pm when its closer to the time and see if any of them are able to fit me in .

Again cheers guys.

 

[adeathfromadove]

Hi guys so when you wired this you wired column to a 12v source and had the dial wired in? I assume that is all that is required. Also am I correct in thinking that the column has its own ECU and doesnt rely on the cars ecu? Again sorry for digging this up