enlareged throttle body for ph2 172??

[Richinnes]

Hi, im thinking of buying an enlarged throttle body for my ph2 172 its be proffesionally machined from the standard 60mm to 64mm.
Has anyone got one of these of heard of it???? they say it increases torque and throttle respose!!! also says u need the paremeters re-set in the ecu not sure what that means or cost??? The guy said if u dont get it reset the car will idels up/down for couple of days until the ecu recognises it, is that even possible???


cheers Rich

 

[Alex H]

If the amount of air is increased/decreased (for given other parameters) then it will take time for the ECU to adapt, so yes, that is possible.

 

[Richinnes]

If the amount of air is increased/decreased (for given other parameters) then it will take time for the ECU to adapt, so yes, that is possible.

cheers pal, that helps. just didnt wanna have to spend £££ on getting the ecu sorted.

 

[TheEvilGiraffe]

Airflow will be restricted by the smallest place it needs to travel through at the speed of sound.

Your inlet and valves will still be the same size...

Have you already got the best flowing filter possible, a straight pipe from the airbox with the best cold feed going to it to get that extra 0.1% ? Matched inlets done ?

If not, unless this is £10 and there's nothing better to do, I don't think I'd bother.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Total waste of time, standard one is easily big enough for 200bhp

 

[Richinnes]

Airflow will be restricted by the smallest place it needs to travel through at the speed of sound.

Your inlet and valves will still be the same size...

Have you already got the best flowing filter possible, a straight pipe from the airbox with the best cold feed going to it to get that extra 0.1% ? Matched inlets done ?

If not, unless this is £10 and there's nothing better to do, I don't think I'd bother.

Iv got rs inlet, with stainless steel manifold ktec decat pipe and a straight through exhaust, hks super power flow air filter, group n ktec remap

 

[Richinnes]

Total waste of time, standard one is easily big enough for 200bhp

Hey chip, What else can i do apart from turbo-ing or supercharging as dont want to spend thousands???

cheers Rich

 

[Chip-mk1]

Hey chip, What else can i do apart from turbo-ing or supercharging as dont want to spend thousands???

cheers Rich

Matched inlets and a decent induction kit is about the only thing you can do on the cheap, the differences aren't massive though. These just aren't easy engines to get a lot more power from on the cheap.

 

[Richinnes]

Matched inlets and a decent induction kit is about the only thing you can do on the cheap, the differences aren't massive though. These just aren't easy engines to get a lot more power from on the cheap.

Cheers pal, iv got the bottom rs inlet but im still looking for the upper as mines standard have hks air filter and decat full exhaust etc.. what about the rs tuner 98 ron map???

 

[Chip-mk1]

Yes the rs tuner map is well worth doing, not much change for peak power but much better midrange.

 

[Richinnes]

Yes the rs tuner map is well worth doing, not much change for peak power but much better midrange.

Thats what are go for then, cheers bud all knowledge is much appreciated :approve:
do i deffinatly need the upper inlet to match the bottom rs or will it make no difference?
cheers

 

[Chip-mk1]

You could do with them actually being port matched inside. Not just standard rs ones.

 

[Richinnes]

You could do with them actually being port matched inside. Not just standard rs ones.

OK, so jms or ktec job then?? cheers

 

[JackJack]

OK, so jms or ktec job then?? cheers

JMS have shut down mate.

 

[Richinnes]

Rs tuner for sale anyone?? old or new version just want 98 ron map and may be some after sales help lol

 

[Richinnes]

JMS have shut down mate.

my bad :S

 

[Luke.]

Cooksport do matched inlets.. Made a good bit of difference on my Cup

 

[Ol’ Tarby]

If you've already got the ktec group n remap then surely the rstuner is a waste of time? They're both generic maps so will be pretty similar?

 

[Richinnes]

Cheers Luke what sort of money were they from cooksport??
Regarding the group n ketchup remap I bought an ecu with it on but not 100% sure it actually had been done it came with a print off but that could of been from anything. Bit stupid I no but it was cheap so thought y not...

 

[Luke.]

Best to get in contact with Josh mate.. http://www.cliosport.net/forum/member.php?39424-Cooksport


He will be able to tell you exactly how much. Mine were done so long ago now..

 

[Jay Payne]

Dan at 519 does them exchange

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?544860-519-Automotive-Matched-Inlets-Remap

 

[Scottie203]

speaking from experience on the 64mm TB,it gives a noticeable mid range torque increase,or it does on the 197/200's anyway

i got mine in a group buy over on clio197.net and i have to say i never felt as much improvement as others did but i fitted it and had mine mapped in with a Y pipe decat at the same time,as said the revs on most do settle after a few days however on mine it still hasn't fully settled so i'm going to have my spare bored out to try and solve the problem,(hopefully a slightly faulty unit)

matched inlets can also give a tiny bit of mid range grunt but it depends how bad your inlets are matched from standard as to what gains you'll see if any,paul at rs tuning told me he's seen a case where matched inlets made the car run slightly less power

 

[Dan519]

speaking from experience on the 64mm TB,it gives a noticeable mid range torque increase,or it does on the 197/200's anyway

no, it gives you more throttle opening for less pedal movement. It's snake oil. Utterly pointless modification.
I'm willing to bet most that have done this are using knackered sparkplugs and run in 95RON fuel

 

[Chip-mk1]

At 10% throttle now you will have more airflow than you used to as it will be a bigger flap that is opened by the same amount, as soon as you get to about 3/4 throttle though the throttle is no longer a restriction, so you dont get more power or more torque at all any point in the rev range.

"Increased throttle response" is just another way of saying "decreased throttle resolution"


Its NOT an improvement IMHO

 

[Richinnes]

no, it gives you more throttle opening for less pedal movement. It's snake oil. Utterly pointless modification.
I'm willing to bet most that have done this are using knackered sparkplugs and run in 95RON fuel

Sorry dan didn't see ya had no pm's written on ur profile . Are email In the future

 

[Scottie203]

no, it gives you more throttle opening for less pedal movement. It's snake oil. Utterly pointless modification.
I'm willing to bet most that have done this are using knackered sparkplugs and run in 95RON fuel

i can only speak for myself,i always (always) use 99ron momentum tesco stuff and my car was mapped to suit this,as my car ran so lean after fitting the Y pipe i was advised that i could have damaged the plugs so they are brand new also...

with respect to the butterfly letting more air in as its using a bigger diameter then yes this is obviously true but i also run a sprint booster so whats your opinions on that setup? personally i think the on/off throttle response especially on B roads is awesome,just a touch on the throttle gives instant power

 

[Chip-mk1]

But you would have got the same power on a B road by just moving your foot 2mm further, who cares about that and it means its easier to modulate the power you do get when pulling out of a tight wet bend, if you lose resolution you lose control.

 

[Scottie203]

well i've got to be honest mate,i love the way the throttle responds,couldn't live without it and its a big improvement on standard in my eyes...

don't the cup racers use a cable operated 64mm TB?

 

[Dan519]

well i've got to be honest mate,i love the way the throttle responds,couldn't live without it and its a big improvement on standard in my eyes...

don't the cup racers use a cable operated 64mm TB?

no, the cable throttle is actually slightly smaller than the FBW throttle

 

[Scottie203]

no, the cable throttle is actually slightly smaller than the FBW throttle

ah right,what size is the TB Jenvey make for the 197? is that the same?

 

[Dan519]

Jenvey make lots of different throttle bodies, none specifically for the 197. They do a 65mm and a 70mm that I know have been used before, but they're nit straight bolt on

 

[Scottie203]

is there a reason why people put larger TB's on then? if so what is it?

 

[Dan519]

marketting

 

[Scottie203]

hmmmm

 

[Chip-mk1]

Jenvey tested and found that once they got under 44mm diameter for a single throttle they started to lose power on a 270bhp touring car engine. No difference at full throttle over that. You want to be slightly over specced to avoid turbulence at 90 percent throttle etc.
but just an example of how hugely on the large side the clio ones are as standard and hence how you will gain nothing by going bigger other than gaining a lack of resolution.

 

[Kyle 86]

I was looking into this long and hard fella this item is on ebay aint it i went against it thanks to the good advice the lads on here gave me!!

 

[Chip-mk1]

OK, so jms or ktec job then?? cheers

The best ones available IMHO are the Mwm ones as they are done by Neil roper.

 

[Richinnes]

I was looking into this long and hard fella this item is on ebay aint it i went against it thanks to the good advice the lads on here gave me!!

Yer don't bother with it.. A mate of mine bought one and got it fitted and there was no difference what so ever. Should of spent his money on some good tyres that would of actually been worth doing. So it's defo worth listening to what some of the guys on here say as they defo no there stuff.

 

[Kyle 86]

Yeah i was put of by it fella not worth the money really plus the throttle bodies are really good anyway

 

[Scottie203]

The best ones available IMHO are the Mwm ones as they are done by Neil roper.

what size are these TB's chip? wondering weather to put my OEM TB back on now as like i said the 64mm version has never fully settled,problem being my car has been mapped with the 64mm TB on so will it be better to stick with it?

here's my graph after fitting the 64mm TB and Y pipe decat,as you can see i've lost a touch of power between 6250rpm and 7250rpm but gained a fair bit of torque + bhp mid range and the car feels better now,i know you say the enlarged TB's doesn't work but can a Y pipe make that much difference mid range? any help is much appreciated...cheers

Y Pipe Graph by scott1532, on Flickr