Few Questions about cambelt change

[ciaran1380]

Im halfway through this job, basically up to the point of locking the crank and cams. To cut a long story short, Im using all genuine parts, incl tools, however I was told by renault that they cant get me the crank locking pin or the cam locking bracket, as these are obsolete. (I find this hard to believe) However they did manage to get me the Pulley locking tool. Ive a few questions.

1. Are those two tools obsolete, as They gave me a loan of their workshop tools, but the pin was the wrong part number and wouldnt fit, I measured it at 8.25mm with a vernier, further down the shaft it was 8mm, I only had a loan for the weekend and as I couldnt lock the crank, I couldnt even start to change the belts. I really dont want to buy laser tools as they are s**t.

2. As sold by Renault Does the cam pulley locking tool, come with all the parts? The manual says you have to change around cogs or something (ive just read up to this part, I havnt actually got to it)

3. I can get a screwdriver in to lock the crank, when locked, the cams dont align, to fit the locking bracket(they are a few degrees out). Does this mean the timing has slipped? I asked the mechanic in renault and he said its because the dephaser is fucked ( its rattling and I have a new one). If this is the case, how do I get the cam timing back in? as im not sure what cam or if both are out.

4. Theres apparantley a seal behind the dephaser or in the dephaser, I asked renault and they said the dephaser comes with all seals and bolts. The one I got didnt, they showed me one from a megane and that did come with a new end cover however this was a Torx head not a 14mm hex.

This really is a c**t of a job, I thought doing the clutch on a 1991 mini had acess issues, the 182 is taking the piss, Id nearly take the engine out if I had to do it again.

 

[mr.pink87]

Camshaft and crankshaft locking tools are absolutly necessary. Pulley locking tools aswell and you'll need the VVT extended cog for the 1*2 F4R engines. Dephaser has a oil seal behind (Renault only) and a seal behind the front cap.
If you do not have all the tools and are not aware of the correct process of fitting and tensioning the timing belt, i'd advise you too stay away and hand the job over to a specialist. Major ****-ups can be had here.

 

[ciaran1380]

Camshaft and crankshaft locking tools are absolutly necessary. Pulley locking tools aswell and you'll need the VVT extended cog for the 1*2 F4R engines. Dephaser has a oil seal behind (Renault only) and a seal behind the front cap.
If you do not have all the tools and are not aware of the correct process of fitting and tensioning the timing belt, i'd advise you too stay away and hand the job over to a specialist. Major ****-ups can be had here.

Thanks for the reply

Unfortunatley as I live in Ireland where 1.8L is considered a big engine, Ive only ever seen 3 182s in the country, also if renault themselves cant tell me what I need, theres no way Im paying somebody too much money for a job Im well capable of doing myself. I understand, and have read on here some of the f**k ups, but Id rather I f**k it up than have somebody else f**k it up and fix it on the cheap. Unlike the UK , Ireland is very poor as regards to specialists. I also have no problem spending money on genuine parts and tools if it means getting the job done right, Ive experience of using s**t tools on bikes, cars and aircraft, it only ends bad

Does anybody have the part numbers for the seal behind the dephaser as renault told me theres only one on the end cap and the one that sits between the cam and the head?

 

[mr.pink87]

Drop Wests Renault on here a PM, i am sure he will sort you out regarding parts/numbers. Do you have the correct manual from Renault? Do not use the Autodata one. If you need the correct one, send me a pm.

 

[Fred@BTM]

rubbish, i purchased new ones a few weeks ago, the tools are still in use on the new clios and meganes, pm T21 ADS - renault parts guy, cheaper than anyone else

 

[MullyBaby]

The seals come as a kit with new can pulley bolts, all are necessary:

Parts for a cambelt change:
Cambelt kit 7701476675
End caps 7700106271 & 7700274026
Dephaser pulley (if needed) 8200782671
Cam pulley seal kit and bolts 7701471629
New crank pulley bolt if yours has stretched 8200608653


Cambelt tools (all needed):

MOT1054 (part number 0000105400) Crank locking pin
MOT1496 (part number 0000149600) Camshaft locking too
MOT1509(part number 0000150900) Cam pulley locking too
MOT1509 01(part number 0000150901) extra long additional part for above tool to fit F4R engine

Will also need new oil and filter if changing the dephaser

 

[ciaran1380]

Brillant, Thanks for the help lads, Ill head down to renault tomorrow with the part numbers. Im using a renault manual that I got somewhere online in PDF form, its for a phase1 though.

As regards the comment from the renault mechanic, can the dephaser knock the timing out? I think its more somebody not tensioning the belt correctley.

Hopefully I'll get it finished this weekend, although renault over here are a joke getting parts. took em 3 weeks to get the dephaser.

 

[mr.pink87]

If the dephaser has massive play, the timing will be a tad out.

 

[MullyBaby]

Timing comes down to the cam locking tool and crank pin, the manual says it should slide in without force, it's not joking, mine wiggled in an I thought that was Ok, I was wrong, it has to be perfect.

Manuals are here courtesy of Cup_Phil, all the same really for this engine:

http://www.phil-barker.com/temp/clio_sport_technical_manuals.zip

 

[ciaran1380]

Ill wait till I get the genuine crank pin in, but it seems to be a good bit off with the screwdriver in which was a 6mm diameter. Its nowhere near going in. Although there no issues with starting the car, Id imagine there would be with the timing that far out?

 

[MullyBaby]

Ill wait till I get the genuine crank pin in, but it seems to be a good bit off with the screwdriver in which was a 6mm diameter. Its nowhere near going in. Although there no issues with starting the car, Id imagine there would be with the timing that far out?

It would idle like a bag of nails if it was that far out, make sure you get the pin in the locking slot and not the balancing hole as explained in the manuals, I find TDC using the flywheel and inspection hole on the gearbox casing, just remember that TDC on flywheel is a little after the crank sensor gap:

 

[ciaran1380]

awesome, Its not exactley a bag of nails but the idle is fairly lumpy, not as bad as a race cam but its noticable.

 

[MullyBaby]

awesome, Its not exactley a bag of nails but the idle is fairly lumpy, not as bad as a race cam but its noticable.

Just take your time when tensioning the pulleys, follow the manuals to a tee, then crank it over by hand, the arrow on the tensioner shouldn't move when cranking over by hand, that's when you know the tension is perfect, tighten everything up and check again, I had to redo mine at that stage but it's worth getting it right, once the locking tools fit perfect after loads of hand cranking and the tension is perfect then you know it's right!

 

[MullyBaby]

Mine sounded like a race cammed RX-7! And it was only slightly slightly out, all mine lined up but the cam tool had to be wiggled in with a bit of force, was enough to give it a lumpy idle and lost the 5k kick

 

[MartinR]

Will also need new oil and filter if changing the dephaser

Why's that then?? :S

 

[ciaran1380]

Mine sounded like a race cammed RX-7! And it was only slightly slightly out, all mine lined up but the cam tool had to be wiggled in with a bit of force, was enough to give it a lumpy idle and lost the 5k kick

Yea The kick on mine isnt really noticable, it just gradually picks up at 5K then theres a surge at 6K nothing id get excited about!

Hoping for some more french horses now after I change this!

 

[not normal dan]

As for them saying they can't get tools that's b****cks, I picked mine up last week.

 

[ciaran1380]

Why's that then?? :S

Doesnt the dephaser work on oil? Im changing it anyways

 

[Fred@BTM]

Why's that then?? :S

because it runs off engine oil pressure and it would be a daft thing to run old oil through a new £170 pulley

 

[MullyBaby]

Why's that then?? :S

Yea it works on oil, need fresh oil for good practice really, prolonged life etc. When you first start the car after putting a dephaser on it will rattle like fck until the oil pressurises into the new dephaser, I'd rather that oil was new

*edit- Fred beat me to it

 

[Fred@BTM]

^and you never start the car with a new dephser without priming the oil system first (unhook injectors and crank the engine)

 

[Martin_172]

Mine sounded like a race cammed RX-7!

LOL @ Race cammed RX-7!!

 

[ciaran1380]

Yea it works on oil, need fresh oil for good practice really, prolonged life etc. When you first start the car after putting a dephaser on it will rattle like fck until the oil pressurises into the new dephaser, I'd rather that oil was new

*edit- Fred beat me to it

Would filling it with oil before you fit it like a filter help?

 

[MullyBaby]

^and you never start the car with a new dephser without priming the oil system first (unhook injectors and crank the engine)

Really Fred? Woops, wish I had known that, mine took about 2 seconds to fill with oil and quitenen down, hope I didn't shorten it's life expectancy

 

[Fred@BTM]

slap yourself for that one LOL!!

 

[MullyBaby]

lol, well my engine took a couple try's to start as I just dropped it back in, so maybe I was lucky

 

[MullyBaby]

Ciaran, I'll post a video up of mine when I get home, it shows me startin the car for the first time and the lumpy idle from the timing being out, you can compare it to yours. You'll have to ignore the PAS pump noise as the system had not been fully bled at that point

 

[ciaran1380]

Ciaran, I'll post a video up of mine when I get home, it shows me startin the car for the first time and the lumpy idle from the timing being out, you can compare it to yours. You'll have to ignore the PAS pump noise as the system had not been fully bled at that point

That would be awesome thanks

 

[MullyBaby]

Here you go, so basically it shouldn't sound like this lol

Ignore the "whine" that's the PAS pump not being bled yet, the engine had just been put back in the car

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o175/MullyBaby/d80d90bc.mp4

 

[Andyman]

What importance is the cam pulley locking tool ?

Is this only needed when the cams have been undone?

If the cranks locked at tdc and the cams are aligned in position with the D or a straight bar where does the camshaft pulley tool come into it? :S

 

[MicKPM]

Covered loads of times before why it's needed... Use it, don't use it... Its your car and if you're insisting on doing the work wrong you must take responsibility for your actions.

 

[MullyBaby]

If you read the manuals on the first page they explain everything, you need all the tools to do the job properly

 

[Andyman]

Covered loads of times before why it's needed... Use it, don't use it... Its your car and if you're insisting on doing the work wrong you must take responsibility for your actions.

I was only asking why it was needed, not questioning it..

 

[MullyBaby]

You have to slacken the cam pulleys to get the belt tension between the pulleys right, the whole timing belt setup is friction based, there's no keyways.

You undo the pulley bolts to slacken them off to enable you to freely rotate the belt and pulleys to set the tension without moving the actual cams or crank. You can only slacken the cam pulleys properly using the tool, otherwise the pulleys may turn when tightening them back up, if that makes sense

 

[Andyman]

You have to slacken the cam pulleys to get the belt tension between the pulleys right, the whole timing belt setup is friction based, there's no keyways.

You undo the pulley bolts to slacken them off to enable you to freely rotate the belt and pulleys to set the tension without moving the actual cams or crank. You can only slacken the cam pulleys properly using the tool, otherwise the pulleys may turn when tightening them back up, if that makes sense

Ah right i see.

Guessing the main reason why you have to use this particular tool due to the aux crank pully being free floating?

 

[MullyBaby]

Kinda yea, but the whole lot is free floating, so you can't undo the cam pulley bolts without the tool, otherwise you will move the cams around as well

 

[Andyman]

Do you need to use it with the Megane 225 or can you get away with one of these: ?

 

[MullyBaby]

No, thats just for rotating the cam pulley to set the tension, there's no way around it really, you need the proper tools

 

[MullyBaby]

I may start renting mine out to people, should stop people buying the wrong tools

 

[slinky2000]

Ciaran did you manage to finish the job yourself? Where about in Ireland you from? I'm in Limerick and it's coming tot hat time for belts to be changed. I know no one who'd be up to the job in the South.