First Track Car - Advice please

[Jamesgsi1983]

All,

I am currently on the lookout for a 182 Cup, or possibly a 200 Cup to use as a weekend track car.
Having trawled through the forums I am starting to realise the best modifications and the do's and don'ts when modifying.

I want to know whether someone can explain both cup packs, and realistically are both needed for a track car or will mods replace certain aspects.
Obviously I can pick up a car without the packs much cheaper, but is it simple to retro fit the cup packs or enhance further with aftermarket mods instead.

Any advice is appreciated, plus if you have one coming up for sale soon then please let me know!
(After one with up to 60k on the clock as I want some life left in it as I begin to prep and use it)

Cheers!

 

[Raceface_13]

I wouldn't let post 60k cars put you off in the slightest. theres ones on here that have 140/150k and LOTS of track abuse and still run a lot better than some 70k cars. all down the maintenance.
as for track mods,
strip it,
buckets
coilovers
good tyres/15 inch wheels
polybush as and when
uprate the pads and brembo discs with good fluid.

theres a thread on here that documents the differeances between the cup packed and non cup packed cars, have a look see.

 

[Jamesgsi1983]

Cheers mate, been having a look but after feedback on the suspension setup?

Is the Cup pack suspension better than the aftermarket ones, or after a period of time even if I bought a Cup version would I replace suspension for better handling?

I assume CUP packs between the 182 and 200 are the same, suspension and body kit?

 

[Raceface_13]

the shocks on the cups are firmer than standard, and some use them with cooksport springs and are happy, depends what your into and how serious you want to get.
coilovers with a well setup chassis IMO will always be better.

 

[STEVE.M]

Cheers mate, been having a look but after feedback on the suspension setup?

Is the Cup pack suspension better than the aftermarket ones, or after a period of time even if I bought a Cup version would I replace suspension for better handling?

I assume CUP packs between the 182 and 200 are the same, suspension and body kit?

You will find it far cheaper to buy a car that is already modified rather than do it yourself.

A 172 Cup is best for track days, as there is no ABS fitted from the factory.

Recent cambelt is also a must, or should be factored into the price.

I would think £2500 is about right for this one in reality, as it does look as if could do with some much stiffer suspension.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Renault-...956091?hash=item1a50df38fb:g:F3QAAOSwtG9bDZeG

 

[Jamesgsi1983]

How do the 182's gain their extra power over the 172 as I was looking at 182's or 200's only?

Is the general opinion that if I buy a 182/200 and fork out for a proper coilover setup I am in a better position to that of a standard cup setup?

 

[Jamesgsi1983]

I should add that I want it to be classed as 'road legal' as plan to drive to and from the track days.
(Assuming on the 182 I can just remove the aircon??)

 

[donnylad]

I have bought a 172 cup to do sprinting and its brilliant. I do have to sort the suspension as I was on 2-3 wheels a few times over the weekend. They are very light, not sure what the 182 and 200 compare weight wise, i am in at 191-196bhp, I was doing faster times then the 230 bhp rs200's, as well as other higher powered cars.

I had it weighed with a full tank at 998 KG, since I have removed 15kg more of trim, and only a quarter of a tank saving me about 30kg more.

933kg, 191bhp and it handles very well.

Obviously go for what you like the look of too if you care about that sort of stuff!

the 172 cup has no ABS and no aircon, giving it a decent weight saving etc.

good luck in your search!

 

[TheEvilGiraffe]

LOL @ sub-60k on a 15 year old car.

Why would you want to remove the AC ?! You'll sweat to death in the summer and won't be able to see when it's raining.

The 182's have a 4-2-1 manifold, whereas the 172s were 4-1 so they're a little more torquey.. however, I'd argue you'd never notice the difference on the road, let alone the track.

Get a ph1 if you want cable throttle and no driving aids (still has ABS). Get a 182 if you want ac/cruise, and the newest of the mk2s.

The 182 cup is pointless, and IIRC has the most awkward size for shocks.

Just remember the newest of the mk2s are 13 year old cars now, so any efficiencies that the cup shocks may have had over the standard ones are irrelevant.

A set of BC or KW coilovers will be much nicer on track and road than 15 year old shocks (assuming they're original and even correct).

 

[Jamesgsi1983]

Thinking more along the lines of going down the 182 route currently, and it appears that a cup might not be the best for me considering I plan to use coilovers regardless.
Guessing the cup only benefits at resale if its standard and not track spec anyway?

Longer term plans will be to turbo it, however that's further down the line.

 

[STEVE.M]

I should add that I want it to be classed as 'road legal' as plan to drive to and from the track days.
(Assuming on the 182 I can just remove the aircon??)

I only used that car as an example, though it may only need a change of harnesses to make it road legal, or reinstallation seat belts.
There are plenty of road legal tracked cars in existence, it seems a bit silly to spoil an original lowish mileage 182, which fetch a premium anyway.
I`d forget about cup packs too, they are 14 years old & worn out, whatever the original differences were, and not up to serious track use.

 

[Goodj]

DOnt get too signle-minded about it HAVING to be a 182.
You woudln't notice the difference between that and a 172 unless you were filming them together.
Especially if your later plans are to pour thousands into the engine for boost.

Just get a 2-litre Clio with a healthy MOT. If it really is going to become a "track day car" then you'll chuck out 90% of the factory parts anyway.

as for resale and redisuals.... if you're worrying about resale value from a torn-up, 15yr-old French hatchback, you're playing the wrong game completely

 

[Jamesgsi1983]

I am on the same page, just wasn't sure whether a CUP pack was really worth searching for.
The car I purchase is being stripped back, however I just wanted a relatively lower mileage well cared for block to build around.

Within the first month of owning I plan to strip it out, fit two buckets and fit a set of coil overs anyway.

 

[Greeny.]

I am on the same page, just wasn't sure whether a CUP pack was really worth searching for.
The car I purchase is being stripped back, however I just wanted a relatively lower mileage well cared for block to build around.

Within the first month of owning I plan to strip it out, fit two buckets and fit a set of coil overs anyway.

In that case just find the best car you can for the price you want to pay keeping in mind the benefits of a 172 cup. I ended up getting a 182 with cup pack as my dedicated track car, purely because it was local, had good history and well-priced, struggled to find a 172 cup that wasn’t a complete shed at the time, im fairly impatient The main ‘issue’ with a cup packed 182 is that the hubs have different spacing so the coilover choice is limited, however BC do a set for a reasonable price so no issues there really, I love mine. If you find a 182 that happens to have a cup pack don’t let it put you off, it all depends what you want to spend, BC’s are around the £700 mark iirc, which tbh is an average price for a half decent setup for trackdays.

 

[STEVE.M]

I am on the same page, just wasn't sure whether a CUP pack was really worth searching for.
The car I purchase is being stripped back, however I just wanted a relatively lower mileage well cared for block to build around.

Within the first month of owning I plan to strip it out, fit two buckets and fit a set of coil overs anyway.

Well that`s a grand at least straight off.

Springs need to be 400lb front, 300lb rear minimum.

I cannot understand your resistance to buy a car already sorted.

If you pay your £12.99, you could take a look at this one.

https://www.cliosport.net/threads/ph1-megane-225-track-car-£3000.818594/

 

[Jamesgsi1983]

No doubt I will pay subscription but just bringing myself up to speed.
Haven't got resistance to a sorted track car, however I do want the enjoyment of doing it myself as a project!

Anyone got a link to the Pro's and Con's between the 172 and the 182 apart from the obvious 10bhp!

 

[STEVE.M]

No doubt I will pay subscription but just bringing myself up to speed.
Haven't got resistance to a sorted track car, however I do want the enjoyment of doing it myself as a project!

Anyone got a link to the Pro's and Con's between the 172 and the 182 apart from the obvious 10bhp!

A lot of 172`s have a 182 manifold fitted anyway.

A skinny bloke in a 172 will be just as fast as a fat one in a 182.

This would be ideal if it`s not been sold.£2500.

https://www.cliosport.net/threads/52-clio-172-cup-road-legal-track-specification-£2500.818303/

 

[Jamesgsi1983]

Spotted that one a couple of weeks ago, but only just started seriously looking this week with the intention to buy ASAP.
Guessing from the sound of things I can comofortably go for either a standard 172 or 182 without Cup packages and start modifying fresh by upgrading the suspension.

 

[Greeny.]

Anyone got a link to the Pro's and Con's between the 172 and the 182 apart from the obvious 10bhp!

10PS and thats unlikely considering it was only done by changing the manifold/cat/map iirc

Wider track on a 172 cup as well.

https://www.pistonheads.com/feature...-buying-guide-renaultsport-clio-172-182/25789

 

[Goodj]

Track day toys change hands on here like shelling peas.
A trope story of ClioSport is that people buy a 1*2, make it a "track and road car", do a track day then immediately sell it.

It didn't become folklore for no reason.


Also, get a load of THIS, or THIS

Buying one with most of the right parts already on them would free up time and some pennies to make sure it's 100% how you'd want it.

it'd also mean another roadable Clio doesn't end up as a lost project

 

[STEVE.M]

10PS and thats unlikely considering it was only done by changing the manifold/cat/map iirc

Wider track on a 172 cup as well.

https://www.pistonheads.com/feature...-buying-guide-renaultsport-clio-172-182/25789

That`s only the wheel`s have a lower ET.

 

[STEVE.M]

Track day toys change hands on here like shelling peas.
A trope story of ClioSport is that people buy a 1*2, make it a "track and road car", do a track day then immediately sell it.

It didn't become folklore for no reason.


Also, get a load of THIS, or THIS

Buying one with most of the right parts already on them would free up time and some pennies to make sure it's 100% how you'd want it.

it'd also mean another roadable Clio doesn't end up as a lost project

You could spend more than £2k getting the silver one to the same spec as the black one.

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

I wouldn't get too caught up with the idea that you need fancy suspension etc in order to have fun. I can absolutely see the desire to build the car yourself as, for a lot of us, it's about the journey as much as it is about the end result, so I get that, but don't feel that you must fit coilovers and buckets straight away. A standard car will give big grins on track, so I wouldn't spend too much too quickly - you might realise you don't actually like it that much and then you've wasted a load of money.

My advice would be to buy the best condition example that comes up in your budget. You might get lucky and get one with a few nice bits already done, or just end up with a nice car to start out with. I wouldn't worry yourself too much about whether it's a 172 or 182, or whether it has Cup bits as, in reality, most people couldn't tell the difference anyway. The 172 Cup does have some advantages thanks to the lack of ABS, but that can be removed from any car in reality.

Buying on condition is the most important thing with these in my view, as they're getting on a bit now.

 

[STEVE.M]

@[U]JamesBryan[/U]

 

[R3k1355]

Within the first month of owning I plan to strip it out, fit two buckets and fit a set of coil overs anyway.

and leave the rusted 15 year old lower arms, track-rods, sloppy bushes and knackered ball joints??

 

[STEVE.M]

and leave the rusted 15 year old lower arms, track-rods, sloppy bushes and knackered ball joints??

As long as it shines, be fine.

 

[charltjr]

Track day toys change hands on here like shelling peas.
A trope story of ClioSport is that people buy a 1*2, make it a "track and road car", do a track day then immediately sell it.

It didn't become folklore for no reason.

And then they come back after having looked for and bought something "better/faster" and buy another one, because they're just so much fun