for Jeremy/all re: clio driving position

[Scudetto]

Jeremy, how close are you to new Clios development team? If you have a line in to them, any chance you can share this with them?

A three hundred-mile trip yesterday on a rain-lashed motorway, gave me plenty of time to think about whats wrong with the Clios driving position. The magazines always say that you sit too high, but I believe this is the least of the problems. There are three issues with the driving position, but lets put these into perspective first: Im 5ft 11 (and a half!), with 33" legs and big/long thighs. That aside, Im mostly normal ;-)

1) Offset everything. Theres something amiss with the layout of all the major controls. The clutch pedal action come in close to the steering column, so youre moving your left leg to the right when you press the clutch down, while the accelerator bears to the left, causing the same effect but to the left. Thats bad enough, but the steering itself is slightly to the left, too, ensuring that your pushing/twisting in conflicting directions. This isnt good for your back. When the most convenient control to fall to your hands is the handbrake, you know somethings gone wrong.

2) The seat. Theres poor shoulder support, the lumbar support is hopeless, and theres not enough under thigh support (this might just be a problem for me though). The backrests curvature cant be right - look at anyone else driving a Clio (or Megane Scenic) and they are either sat bolt upright, or slouched forward. Poor seat design apart, the lack of support could also be because the seat has...

3) ...limited adjustment. The backrests crude tilt mechanism either leaves you too far back, or too far forward. For me, the seat base needs to go back another inch. Because it doesnt go back far enough, my legs are forced to be splayed and angled upwards, which puts pressure on my lower back (compounded by the seats lack of support, and the twisted driving position, this creates merry hell after 30mins).

So, short of making you sit on a spike and covering the steering in barbed wire, Im not sure what else Renault could have done to make the Clio any less comfortable. This is a crying shame, as in all other respects the 172 is a wicked motorway car. Its plenty powerful enough, tracks arrow straight at speed, is beautifully damped (but gets choppy and unsettled at higher speed), has powerful brakes and a a well-weighted steering and good mirrors. All the engine and wind noise can be drowned out by the standard radio and the visibility is good, too.

If I dont go all sensible trousers this year and buy the Ibiza diesel, Id like to consider the next generation RenaultSport Clio when that comes out. But unless the driving position has been cracked, I cant do this to my back again. So, Jeremy, please have a word ;-)

g

 

[Day]

Hopefuly the new model will have been designed with feedback like above from the previous model in mind.

Just a thought.

 

[Swervin_Mervin]

The problem is, theyre designed around the French. When youve only driven french cars you get used to the offset position, but I must say that Renault have always beent he worst for this.

Support is a very key problem, I agree. Sit in something as mainstream as an Altea and youll see the seats are superb in every respect.

Really, given the uk market makes up the majority (by some way) of the "hot" model sales, there really is no excuse for tailoring the driving position etc around the typical french physique.

 

[stevoversteer]

this is the only thing putting me off buying one (im 65" )

 

[Scudetto]

meant to add, in all fairness to the renault, the only two makes that I get full support and comfort from have been Saabs and Mercs. The Ibiza, to use Seat as an example, Swervin, is fine except again if the seat base went back and inch more, it would be perfect. Id be interested to see what the position is like when i try the new Golf next week, as my MK2 Golf Gti also needed a bit more movement backwards.

As for designing it around the French - surely they cant enjoy sitting like that? Id hate to think of the french being uncomfortable. That would be awful ;-)

g


[Edited by Scudetto on 21 January 2005 at 11:25am]

 

[Tom]

Suits me fine tbh, im a short little bugger.

 

[Scudetto]

Tom, ive noticed that shorter people do seem to be less affected by poor driving positions. Next time i do a long journey, do you mind doing the driving ;-)

g

 

[KDF]

The steering wheel is too far away, or the pedal are too close, thats my main grip.. I agree the seat needs to be lower a bit aswell and it needs to have better thigh support.

 

[jon_r]

Lower, further back and with more support, then itd be great.

 

[Swervin_Mervin]

And reach/rake on the steering. Had this on my old Xsara and it enabled me to get a truly superb driving position. I have long arms you see so I dont like them hanging around in thin air.

 

[covkid]

I do approx 500 miles a week in my clio and i have to say that i am constantly adjusting the position of the seat. Ive owned the car for 3/4 months now and i still havnt found a permanent comfy driving position. I am 6ft 2" but i dont reckon its my height thats the problem. As above the offset of all the controls makes u feel like your constantly twisted or leaning to one side. BMW are the only other car make ive owned where the offset is so prominent... even then though the extra leg space inside does help.

 

[172_4_life]

Just get a Sparce or Momo seat or something

I drive over 20,000 a year. I am only 5 10". I find that it is pretty comfortable most of the time.

I agree that the seat seems to get caught "inbetween" for the best settings, but even when I drove to Newcastle and back int he same day (nearly 5 hrs driving) it was still fairly comfortable... perhaps I just have more padding than some!

I likethe closeness of the pedals... but I have size 9 feet, and so fit into the limit - as Clarkson stated on TopGear! It is faster etc for reaction time.

 

[17too cup]

Jeez maybe this is the cause of me being in so much pain ,been off my work 2 weeks now with severe lower back pain ,im 6.2 and always find it hard to get comfortable behind the wheel of my cup

 

[Jeremy Townsend]

I agree with all of your comments and, yes, the criticism of the driving position has been taken into account in the development of Clio

 

[Swervin_Mervin]

Schweet.

 

[182_blue]

i really dont have a problem with the driving position on my 182 (perhaps im an odd shape )

 

[Toypop]

I set mine up so the wheel and gear stick are at the correct distance.

I am sat a little closer to the pedals than I would like but its not a problem and I feel more in control with that driving position.


When I do a long motorway journey I am not steering or change gear much so I push the seat back so I can extend my legs.


Dead simple.

 

[peterh2]

I think if I could just move the pedals back a bit the driving position would be fine.

 

[mrk1]

To be honnest I find my 172 is perfect for me at 6 foot. I actually must be the only person in the world who likes the high driving position of the clio

 

[MattyMarsh]

Im quite impressed with how many different adjustments are available on the 172. These include:

Seat Height

Seat Backward and Forward Position
Seat Angle
Lumbar Support
Steering Wheel Height


All we need now is:

Seat Left and Right Position
and perhaps better supporting seats

 

[m_darby]

the driving position in my mark 1 172 is better than the dci mark 2 I have just sold. It is all down to the seat design. the latest clio has a very high driving position.

 

[chris182]

Just to jump on the bandwagon, i dont actually mind the height but will agree on most other comments.

I had a Megane Sport Alize for quite a while b4 the clio and the seats were so much better. A wheel for adjusting the backrest, so it was far better for getting it just right and much more supportive.

I cant believe the difference from the same manufacturer.

Also, i have noticed that i am getting shoulder pains when driving to work, something i never had with the megane.

 

[182 sport]

Quote: Originally posted by m_darby on 21 January 2005

the driving position in my mark 1 172 is better than the dci mark 2 I have just sold. It is all down to the seat design. the latest clio has a very high driving position.

Id like to point out that 172 mk2/182 seating position is different to the clio models that arent sport

 

[m_darby]

R they? Just thought they were half leather? but same seat design and sub frame?

[Edited by m_darby on 21 January 2005 at 5:25pm]

 

[geordieclio]

i also finf the clio cumfy at 6"0 and im a rather plump fellow too

 

[Big G]

yeah im 511" and im comfy too,

The position was a little strange at first, but im fine with it now - it could do with being a little bit lower.

Re: the offset.

This was also a little odd to begin with, but it makes so much sense now getting back into my other car (fiesta zetec-s). The fiestas pedals (clutch/accelerator) are exactly where your feet would rest in the car, or right under your feet. This means there is no room either side of the pedals for your feet to rest when cruising and your feet must stay poised over the pedals.

The clios pedals are great for me. Instead of them being under my feet, theyre offset so my left foot now rests on the dead-pedal and if i need to use the clutch then i just bring my foot into the middle and do so. My right foot is almost always on the accelerator.

I like the driving position, i sometimes feel people focus on it a little too much although were all different shapes and sizes - how can Renault get it right for all, other than a totally customizable seat?

 

[Longy]

Im 6ft 2" and i have no problem with the driving position at all

 

[cnic69]

Quote: Originally posted by 182blue on 21 January 2005

i really dont have a problem with the driving position on my 182 (perhaps im an odd shape )

I agree with this really.

I had to drive to Nottingham a few months back (200 miles) pick up my brother and drive straight back.

400 mile round trip and i got a bit fidgety at about 350 so that isnt bad.
(mostly due to having a numb ass from sitting in the same place for several hours!)

I am 5ft 11 and have 33 inside leg also

 

[Mrdemon]

the steering wheel needs to be closer i have long legs but am only 5.10"

and if you put the seat where you want the wheel is not where u want ,

All that is needed and would be cheap is an ajustable steering wheel for rake.

 

[Little Newms]

I like mine lol...... i dont find many problems with it to be honest

 

[jonnyboy]

theres nothing wrong with the clio seats they are fantastic and very comfortable.

But FFS sake they are sat too high in the car!!!! probably something to do with NCAP saftey or something, but the actual seats are superb, better than you get in most hatches.

 

[Mike@Rentech]

Happy with the driving position on miine, seems fine to me, very comfy.

 

[Ally]

Quote: Originally posted by jonnyboy on 21 January 2005

theres nothing wrong with the clio seats they are fantastic and very comfortable.

But FFS sake they are sat too high in the car!!!! probably something to do with NCAP saftey or something, but the actual seats are superb, better than you get in most hatches.

Totally agree with that. And Im about 61 with 34" legs and reasonable "slim". Ive not been in any other car with seats as comfortable seats as the 172. But yes, I think they are a bit high. But apart from that I find them very comfortable on 300m+ journeys (especially compared to the missus mk4 Astra...). I dont see what all the fuss is about, unless Im justa weird shape...

 

[dk]

i find them fine, have no problem at all

 

[Deeg]

I drive a MK1 Ph3 and find it ok, not as comfortable as the my previous Fiesta, but ok, no probs on long journeys etc.

However, when I get a courtesy car, that is a different story, usually one of the new plates, I think the last I had was a 53 plate, and it was god awful. So high (a very girl position, to stereotype, i dont know if that is intended?) and so uncomforatble. Everything about it was very awkward, reaching things etc.

 

[sargeantinio]

no probs 4 me im 6ft never noticed owt

 

[White16valver]

I find I am constantly having to life myself out of the seat of my valver, so it does appear to be a long-standing issue!

As above, Im twisted in the seat and not sitting far enough to the left or right (I cant work out which as I can never actually get comfy for 5 minutes.)

Lower back support is a bit lacking as well unfortunately, and I hate driving slouched over.

Ive even thought about trying to get a set of RS Turbo recaros in there, as they were soooo comfy. The offset may still be an issue though!

Ho hum, Ill stop whinging now lol