Geometry settings

[Greg.w]

Hey folks

Bought myself a nice phase 1 tonight with some good parts fitted. The last owner hasn't done any miles on the suspension really and not had the geometry set up. On the way home it was very shaky and vibrating quite a lot at high speeds so it's definitely needing set up.

Got a local place I normally use but was just wondering what are the recommended settings for fast road cars?

Cheers

 

[Flat Eric]

+1.
I wouldn't mind having mine set up too

 

[NorthloopCup]

Its all personal preference really, but this is what i'd chose for my own car.

For the camber you want about 1.5-2.0 degrees negative on the front for fast road use. At the rear you need shims to adjust the camber and the toe, so you'll not be bothering with that.

For the tracking you want to be toe out by about 5 minutes, but not much more. It gives good turn in, but at the expense of a slightly twitchy steering feel. Nothing horrendous though unless you have to much.
Failing that go for parallel or a very small amount of toe in if you don't fancy the twitchy steering.

If you have Ast top mounts, set them for maximum castor.

 

[Greg.w]

Got the car booked in on Thursday with a good local place.

So I'm going for 1.5 degree neg camber on the front. 5 minutes toe out. Anything else or just standard for all other setting if they are adjustable?

 

[NorthloopCup]

Got the car booked in on Thursday with a good local place.

So I'm going for 1.5 degree neg camber on the front. 5 minutes toe out. Anything else or just standard for all other setting if they are adjustable?

No mate, all the other settings are non adjustable.

 

[Flat Eric]

Do you need camber bolts for the adjustment of camber? Is that a ridiculously stupid question?

 

[NorthloopCup]

Do you need camber bolts for the adjustment of camber? Is that a ridiculously stupid question?

No mate it's not a stupid question! It comes down to what suspension setup your running. I run kw v2's and they have a mechanism to allow camber adjustment, some have a slotted top hole that allows the hub to be pulled out/pushed in for camber adjustment and finally there's the standard dampers/lowering springs style setup that you need camber bolts for.

Dead simple to adjust on camber bolts or how the v2's are, not so much on the slotted hole type.

 

[Flat Eric]

I'll need camber bolts then as I'm on the standard dampers with eibach springs.

 

[MR.172 Cup]

Great thread! I've been wondering why my steering feels all over the place! I have V Maxx coilies on mine, would you recommend the same settings NorthloopCup?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Great thread! I've been wondering why my steering feels all over the place! I have V Maxx coilies on mine, would you recommend the same settings NorthloopCup?

The most likely reason for your steering feeling all over the place is play in your steering.

These car dont need fancy parts, or even altered geometry to corner very well, they just need good condition rods and rod ends and rack bushes and balljoints etc.

My mrs 172 is epic to drive, mega controllable, bags of grip, and the spec of it is very basic, but its just that everything on it is brand new now so its like a new car again.

They were brilliant from the factory (especially the cups) so the first thing to do is get it back to being like that, far better than spending the money on poor quality coilovers instead IMHO

 

[Chip-mk1]

As an example here is our car on track, using road setup (slightly under 1 degree of camber and toe set to 0 degrees)

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?660036-Video-of-our-RS2-clio-172-at-combe-today


Sure it would be a better track car (its not one, its her daily) with slightly more camber, but it really isnt as essential as people make out, where as having NO play in any of the steering components is.

Pinsharp handling comes as standard on the RS clios, but sadly most of them now are just worn out!

 

[MR.172 Cup]

The most likely reason for your steering feeling all over the place is play in your steering.

These car dont need fancy parts, or even altered geometry to corner very well, they just need good condition rods and rod ends and rack bushes and balljoints etc.

My mrs 172 is epic to drive, mega controllable, bags of grip, and the spec of it is very basic, but its just that everything on it is brand new now so its like a new car again.

They were brilliant from the factory (especially the cups) so the first thing to do is get it back to being like that, far better than spending the money on poor quality coilovers instead IMHO

What would you recommend to get the handling back to brilliant Chip? (The coilies came with the car)

 

[Chip-mk1]

Most of these cars now will benefit from at least most of the following:

Track rods
Track rods ends
Wishbones + balljoints (cup ones have most caster so make sure you get those)
Strut top mounts
Steering rack bushes
Wheel bearings

And then some new shocks or a rebuild of the shocks to good condition, obviously what ones depends on budget, we did all the things listed there on my mrs car, plus some new cup shocks and eibach springs, and the difference between that and most 172s is night and day, we've got a typical high miler snotty one as a spare daily and they just dont seem like the same car at all when you drive them, one is vague and unrewarding the other is fantastic.

Im not talking race car levels of grip or anything, just feeling "right"

 

[MR.172 Cup]

Yeah thats exactly what im after, the 'right' amount of grip! ill keep this list handy! where abouts are you in the country chip?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Taunton mate. Fancy a test drive sometime?

 

[MR.172 Cup]

Yeah I'd love a test drive, You can jump in mine to see the difference! 3 Hour journey though

 

[Chip-mk1]

Sorry mate, saw the "southwest" bit but didnt notice the "london" bit, lol.

 

[MR.172 Cup]

Haha, such a tease! If i am ever local i shall pm you!

 

[NorthloopCup]

Great thread! I've been wondering why my steering feels all over the place! I have V Maxx coilies on mine, would you recommend the same settings NorthloopCup?

Yes I'd recommend those settings for fast road mate. You'll need all your geometry checking and adjusting if your fitting all new components as well. They do make enough of a difference to knock it out.

 

[Flat Eric]

Most of these cars now will benefit from at least most of the following:

Track rods
Track rods ends
Wishbones + balljoints (cup ones have most caster so make sure you get those)
Strut top mounts
Steering rack bushes
Wheel bearings

And then some new shocks or a rebuild of the shocks to good condition, obviously what ones depends on budget, we did all the things listed there on my mrs car, plus some new cup shocks and eibach springs,

How much would all that set me back though? I've got the eibach springs so I mean for the rest of it.

Cheers for response chip. It makes sense to replace those instead of messing around with geometry settings first.

 

[MartinR]

^^Best part of £300-£350 Chris then labour on top

 

[Chip-mk1]

^^Best part of £300-£350 Chris then labour on top

The rack bushes are 50
shocks were best part of a 100
shock top mounts werent far off 100 either
wishbones were over 100
so that's the top end of your scale already.
and then track rods and ends, which is 50-100 depending on where you get them
bearings about 30 each iirc
so more like heading towards 500 if you have to pay a bit to get the bearings pushed which i did
then more when you get it tracked after

Tbh it's probably a 800 quid job all in if you had to pay labour on the parts fitting too I guess

 

[Flat Eric]

It's not too bad then. I would consider doing this next year. It depends if I keep car or not.

Cheers for price breakdown.

 

[MartinR]

I missed the shocks off lol i got genuine top mounts for just under £40 a side with the new insert thingys. Were your ones gold plated chip

 

[MR.172 Cup]

Oooh better get saving then! This is the next step!

 

[MartinR]

When you do come to order your parts call 01902 439264 ask to speak to Adam he is the cheapest genuine parts supplier you will find

 

[Flat Eric]

^^^^ what Martin said.

 

[Fred@BTM]

on holiday for 2 weeks

 

[Flat Eric]

Don't worry Fred. Won't be till next year for me. have a good holiday too.

 

[Junior Bear]

Cracking thread!


Anybody know good geo people in the west mids area?

Or will any general garage that does 'tracking' be able to do this?

Birchdown diagnosed I need new wishbone kit either side so tht explains why the handling is shocking.

Got new shocks and eibach springs along with ktec solid top mounts fitted, powerflex bushes everywhere etc

I have the eibach camber bolts in the garage still new, I use my car daily, but would 1.5-2.0 degs of camber shred the tyres quick?

 

[NorthloopCup]

Cracking thread!


Anybody know good geo people in the west mids area?

Or will any general garage that does 'tracking' be able to do this?

Birchdown diagnosed I need new wishbone kit either side so tht explains why the handling is shocking.

Got new shocks and eibach springs along with ktec solid top mounts fitted, powerflex bushes everywhere etc

I have the eibach camber bolts in the garage still new, I use my car daily, but would 1.5-2.0 degs of camber shred the tyres quick?

It's a shame your not a bit closer to me, otherwise I'd have done your geometry mate, as I have all the kit including corner weight scales for if you really wanted to get involved! Lol!

1.5-2.0 degrees negative camber won't shred the tyres massively mate. Keep it near 1.5 degrees and the tyres will last fine.

 

[Junior Bear]

Don't one of the tool manufacturers sell a camber level tool, it's like a magnet that attaches to the disk brake and it shows how much camber

Saw it on a civic forum thread regarding the eibach bolts iirc

 

[NorthloopCup]

Don't one of the tool manufacturers sell a camber level tool, it's like a magnet that attaches to the disk brake and it shows how much camber

Saw it on a civic forum thread regarding the eibach bolts iirc

Have a look in demon tweeks mate. They sell them.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I missed the shocks off lol i got genuine top mounts for just under £40 a side with the new insert thingys. Were your ones gold plated chip

Yours were 40 quid a side, mine were "not far off 100 quid" for the two, how is that a big difference in price?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Cracking thread!


Anybody know good geo people in the west mids area?

Or will any general garage that does 'tracking' be able to do this?

Birchdown diagnosed I need new wishbone kit either side so tht explains why the handling is shocking.

Got new shocks and eibach springs along with ktec solid top mounts fitted, powerflex bushes everywhere etc

I have the eibach camber bolts in the garage still new, I use my car daily, but would 1.5-2.0 degs of camber shred the tyres quick?

If you go to a branch of protyre they have the proper gear and can measure caster etc too which is cool.

Obviously down to luck if you get a branch with a good tecnician working that day or not to a certain extent though.

 

[MartinR]

Cracking thread!


Anybody know good geo people in the west mids area?

Or will any general garage that does 'tracking' be able to do this?

Birchdown diagnosed I need new wishbone kit either side so tht explains why the handling is shocking.

Got new shocks and eibach springs along with ktec solid top mounts fitted, powerflex bushes everywhere etc

I have the eibach camber bolts in the garage still new, I use my car daily, but would 1.5-2.0 degs of camber shred the tyres quick?

Total Control Racing in Wednesbury just off jct9 of the M6, Clio cup race team and have all the equipment needed to do what you want

 

[1812lsd]

Cracking thread!


Anybody know good geo people in the west mids area?

Or will any general garage that does 'tracking' be able to do this?

Birchdown diagnosed I need new wishbone kit either side so tht explains why the handling is shocking.

Got new shocks and eibach springs along with ktec solid top mounts fitted, powerflex bushes everywhere etc

I have the eibach camber bolts in the garage still new, I use my car daily, but would 1.5-2.0 degs of camber shred the tyres quick?

HARDY TYRES, TELFORD, STAFFORD PARK 1: http://www.protyre.co.uk/outletsdesc.aspx?id=6859&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

 

[Junior Bear]

Not sure they do complex geo, I've tried them a few years ago, although they have moved to a bigger unit so I'll call in at the weekend, many thanks!

 

[Chip-mk1]

every protyre I have been to has a setup that allows them to do tracking and camber and to measure caster (but no cars normally have adjustable caster unless its a race car)

 

[Junior Bear]

Okeydoke cool thanks