Group N timing - daily driver - anyone regretted this?

[frayz]

Hey all,

I know theer are loads of threads about the grp n timing, power and results etc. but im looking for experinces on real world driveability.
My car is due its next lot of belts at the end of the month and i'm thinking of having the cams timed to grp n spec and the cal tweaked to suit.
I know they don't gain much up top but i believe there is a big gain in torque in the middle right where its useful on the road.

Any regrets?

Ta

 

[Mr Underhill]

Hey all,

I know theer are loads of threads about the grp n timing, power and results etc. but im looking for experinces on real world driveability.
My car is due its next lot of belts at the end of the month and i'm thinking of having the cams timed to grp n spec and the cal tweaked to suit.
I know they don't gain much up top but i believe there is a big gain in torque in the middle right where its useful on the road.

Any regrets?

Ta

Carl (formerly bloke) did my GRP N timing on my 182 track car and then Chris (EFi) mapped it. Results 186 bhp and 168 lbs-ft torque.

It went from a sewing machine to being lumpy and would occasionally cut out from time to time. Would I get it done for my daily, yes and no.

No, if I was only driving to work and using the car socially, cutting out at traffic lights and popping on overrun would be embarrassing and get on my tits. I'm 59 lol

Yes, if I was combining daily driving with half a dozen circuit visits a year because it transformed the car.

 

[frayz]

Carl (formerly bloke) did my GRP N timing on my 182 track car and then Chris (EFi) mapped it. Results 186 bhp and 168 lbs-ft torque.

It went from a sewing machine to being lumpy and would occasionally cut out from time to time. Would I get it done for my daily, yes and no.

No, if I was only driving to work and using the car socially, cutting out at traffic lights and popping on overrun would be embarrassing and get on my tits. I'm 59 lol

Yes, if I was combining daily driving with half a dozen circuit visits a year because it transformed the car.

Thanks for your response and honesty dude.
My car has never been mapped and is still on the standard awful lump cal anyway. So its either get the timing altered and mapped to suit or just have the standard car mapped to improve driveability.
Its going for its belts anyway so this is what is tempting me to release a bit more torque.

 

[Touring_Rob]

What put me off was the logistics of doing the timing mod and having it mapped to suit. Unless the company doing the belts can also map the thing won't it be painful?

 

[Mr Underhill]

What put me off was the logistics of doing the timing mod and having it mapped to suit. Unless the company doing the belts can also map the thing won't it be painful?

Yeah, that was a bit of a pain for me. Carl is about an hour away from EFi, so it was a bit of a rush getting from his place to Chris for mapping.

My car was on a trailer.

When I had to get engine work done later on, the place that rebuilt the engine timed it to Group N. They are out in the North Yorkshire Dales, so it then had to go all the way to Chris again for remapping.

When Chris got it on the dyno he said "who mapped this"? When I told him he did, it was a bit awkward haha

When I sold the car, the buyer took it back to Chris for mapping, even though I'd told him it had already been done.

I got a text from the lad who said Chris had asked him which clown had mapped it haha

 

[frayz]

All my bigger work is done by Alex at AWM who would do the timing and take the car for mapping locally to Andy at Engine Dynamics.
So it would effectively all be done in house.

 

[Mr Underhill]

All my works is done by Alex at AWM who would do the timing and take the car for mapping locally to Andy at Engine Dynamics.
So it would effectively all be done in house.

Perfect set up!

 

[Stefan.]

All my works is done by Alex at AWM who would do the timing and take the car for mapping locally to Andy at Engine Dynamics.
So it would effectively all be done in house.

Ash got his done by Alex and engine dynamics when he has his trophy.

Maybe worth checking out his thread?

He had a lightened flywheel too. Was lumpy on idle, went well.

 

[frayz]

Ash got his done by Alex and engine dynamics when he has his trophy.

Maybe worth checking out his thread?

He had a lightened flywheel too. Was lumpy on idle, went well.

Ah yes i remember, cheers Stef. Mine got a TTV flywheel too so would be the same .

 

[Stefan.]

Ah yes i remember, cheers Stef. Mine got a TTV flywheel too so would be the same .

Ash’s Clio 182 Trophy

I was going to say the rear tyres looked pretty close I'm Mark's photo's! I'd reduce the spacers a little as the ride height looks spot on. The car looks amazing now, but I expect nothing else from you Ash👍.

www.cliosport.net

 

[T3gav]

All my bigger work is done by Alex at AWM who would do the timing and take the car for mapping locally to Andy at Engine Dynamics.
So it would effectively all be done in house.

Had mine done by Alex and mapped at ED, it's my daily but only 8 miles each way. It's fine in traffic just a slightly lumpy idle, if you breathe on the throttle it idles normally, just a pain in the ass if stuck on the M25 for an hour in stop start traffic.

 

[frayz]

Had mine done by Alex and mapped at ED, it's my daily but only 8 miles each way. It's fine in traffic just a slightly lumpy idle, if you breathe on the throttle it idles normally, just a pain in the ass if stuck on the M25 for an hour in stop start traffic.

Thanks mate. Is it only the idle that you find an issue?
Any cutting out or cold start issues etc?

 

[T3gav]

Thanks mate. Is it only the idle that you find an issue?
Any cutting out or cold start issues etc?

Cold start is perfect, has never cut out either

 

[T3gav]

Thanks mate. Is it only the idle that you find an issue?
Any cutting out or cold start issues etc?

I'm in Herts if you want to come see what it's like in person btw.

 

[frayz]

Thanks Gav, much appreciated

 

[T3gav]

No prob, I had 197 cams fitted at the same time on mine, Alex usually has 2nd hand cams there for a good price.

 

[chazza114]

No prob, I had 197 cams fitted at the same time on mine, Alex usually has 2nd hand cams there for a good price.

What sort of power gains did you see when switching to the 197's? I'm considering putting a set in my 172 next year when the belts are up!

 

[frayz]

No prob, I had 197 cams fitted at the same time on mine, Alex usually has 2nd hand cams there for a good price.

I didn't think 197s were usually timed to grp n spec?

 

[Touring_Rob]

Either way its not a like for like comparison.

 

[T3gav]

Ah sorry just checked, 8 deg inlet advance, standard exhaust. Mine made 188bhp with the filter off and 183 with standard air box, 161lbft. He did say it would make 5bhp more or so with a decat but I prefer to keep the cat fitted.

 

[imprezaworks]

Mine is 192/165 with 197 cams.

 

[Greeny.]

Kinda wish I did this rather than fit 421 cams tbh!

 

[frayz]

Kinda wish I did this rather than fit 421 cams tbh!

Group N on stock cams or 197s?

 

[Greeny.]

Group N on stock cams or 197s?

Group N on stock cams, not unhappy with 421's but so little gain really, the Group N stuff was only just becoming known and used by everyone when I got them fitted so kinda missed the boat on it. I'm at around 193bhp & 164 ft/lb torque on Engine Dynamics rollers with 197 injectors and home modified ported inlets, altering the timing on standard items seems a better option to keep the car more 'stock' so to speak.