Had a good run- Phase 1 gearbox disintegrated, is it worth repair?

[chris blue]

Bought a Y Reg 2001 year, Phase 1 in 2016 for little money, (£550) stripped it other than dash, welded in half roll cage, a few bits n bobs (Induction, Battery cover, matched inlets, ecu remap, PMS front strut +top mounts etc etc) and been real fun running just under 180BHP, engine on 105k only just been oil serviced, front AP coilovers, and completing 4 or 5 track days a year, no problem. Great fun and handling

However, after a little thrash around local roads yestday, coming out of a roundabout, sharp clunk and lost all gears. Real horrible grinding sound when engaging drive

RAC turned up...... 4 hours later......had one listen and said "Gearbox" as I thought. Possibly the diff too. Least they towed me home.

So- what to do? Had a good run with nothing major previously, and engine runs spot on

Either hand over to Clioman at Littlehampton, fto fit a recon gearbox (Which ones fit?) probably clutch too. Or just break it for parts and get another Clio.

Wonder if Northloop has gearbox knocking around, but too old for me to be able to remove boxes etc. Dont touch gearbox and engine nowadays, my back gives out.

Not sure what to do really. Not sure the costs (? guessing clutch 300, recon gearbox supply and fit 5/600)

 

[P-Co]

May be worth stating what engine is in it.

Also if you know the rest of the car is good then is it really worth stripping and risking buying something else that you don't know the true condition of?

 

[Clio_fool]

Buying another Clio and starting agian would be a mistake I think. Besides cheap clio's don't really exist these days so you'd be in it for more even before you know if it would survive the drive home nevermind a track day. If I were you I'd have the car shipped off to have a recon gearbox fitted and resume the fun when it's back home.

 

[Bluebeard]

Second hand box for £150 and a days work to fit.

or, get a duff box, send it off to be rebuilt properly, get a new clutch also, and fit all that. Probably looking at £800.

if the rest of the car is good, you’d be mad so get another clio. You could end up with more issues than just a gearbox.

 

[Bankrupt_drunk]

Unless you can find a recent refurb, or at least a second hand box from a trustworthy source, then I'd be looking at getting the box stripped and refurbed. If the rest of the car is in good nick then it'll continue to do a good few trackdays a year. AW Motorworks did mine last year, new clutch, gearbox mount and bracket, Mark Mayfield recon box, oil and a few other bits for £850.

 

[Robbie Corbett]

I would go against the grain here and say move on. If your old enough your back is giving you grief then perhaps time for something more spine friendly but still fun. Having recently re done a few bits on mine I'd say its a slippery slope, I'm 2k+ in and not finished so in no time you'll be spending more than the cars worth....

Just my (miserable) 2p.

 

[chris blue]

I would go against the grain here and say move on. If your old enough your back is giving you grief then perhaps time for something more spine friendly but still fun. Having recently re done a few bits on mine I'd say its a slippery slope, I'm 2k+ in and not finished so in no time you'll be spending more than the cars worth....

I tend to agree, Could spend £900 getting the clutch and gearbox sorted, for a whole new host problems to show up. Had it 4 years, cut my losses

Realise its a gamble, but it seems on a bit of research you can get roadready track cars with roll cages for couple Grand or so ish
Throttle body 12 month MOT Clios for $4k ish.

Still- got a few month to decide.

Put up for sale on here with just the knackered gearbox, see if anyone is interested in it, and leave it to the younger lads to switch the box out.
Or break it

 

[Robbie Corbett]

I would say that if your really cut throat about it £400 will get the gearbox rebuilt, £120 will buy the clutch, its likely 4 hours labor to have gearbox out and back in so your right and in the £800-1000 ball park depending on who's doing it.

If the car also needs belts then I would say the repair is likely uneconomical. Suspect you would get £500 on here from someone willing to do the work them selves so you've had some good cheap fun for a few years.

Alternatively have (im only assuming worst case the belts are due btw) someone do belts, clutch and gearbox and to inspect + refresh bottom end. At that point your probably back in something you already know and like with the most expensive bits sorted. At this point you've spent probably 2K and the car will probably be worth between £1800 and £2800. So you haven't necessarily lost money.

The issue with that is that while the engines out you may as well do cams, and then you may as well do tidy the engine bay and replace a few easy to get to bushed, and then you may as well do XYZ. I was only going to have engine out to do belts and gearbox, I've somehow ended up replacing every suspension bush and joint on the car, exhaust, brakes, wheel bearings..... it really is a muddy slope into madness. Will be nice when its all done (like yours would be too) but after spending 2-3k on parts I will still be left with a Clio (however much I love it) and 4k starts to get you into something like a Meg or dare I say it a Type R(ank) which are much more grown up and still a good laugh on track....

Actually, not sure I've helped at all there. Getting off the fence for a moment my view is that if you do the work your self they are economical, paying someone probably isn't.

 

[Krarl]

If you take it to Gary then you're in good hands

Might be worth explaining to him that you need a PH1 box with a renfort diff plate, clutch and a few remedials then see what price he comes back with

Plus his work is spot on and you should have zero issues afterwards unlike other 'clio specialists'

 

[chris blue]

Taken all comments on board- Yes, DIY would be fair enough. Cost effective, but hard awkward work, for me anyway. Too much hassle methinks.

Getting someone else to do it, costs start evolving. Throw in Transporting the Clio outside my Brighton area, and costs start getting prohibitive

If I can get a decent used gearbox over next 4 or 5 months, then just get the professionals to switch the box out, and do nothing more, that could be done for £500 i reckon, Clutch, would have to wait n see. Only really want a couple years out of it until I can invest more substantial amount in a hobby/track car.

But, I think 4 years is a good hit for what Ive spent so far, and maybe time to sell up and move on. Sell as is, or break.

Dont really want to go where Touring_Rob has gone. But well done to you for sticking to it

Shame- as engine runs and sounds fabulous.

 

[banhama]

Hi Chris, we've both got transmission issues then!

Worth taking my woes into account if you come to Lydden regularly, particularly if you end up with the same or new clio with an LSD.
You may well need a stronger clutch.
Changing into 2nd at the elbow with standard ratios (this is a 182 though), has broken 2 clutch covers in quick succession.
My solution will be a Sachs clutch (£500) and a higher final drive (£????).
Looks like I'm following @Touring_Rob down the money pit: with the engine out the intake's gone for blasting, probably new exhaust manifold £etc, £etc!

Anyway once @NorthloopCup has given me the price of the final drive my box with the LSD will be sent to him.
This still leaves my original 128,000 mile, 1 careful lady owner gerabox, which was running fine when removed.
The current casing suffered some internal damage when the second clutch broke, so I need Mark to assess whether he needs the casing off the original box.
If not it will be spare, but not sure that a 182 box will be any use to you.

Good luck, Andy

 

[Darren S]

However, after a little thrash around local roads yestday, coming out of a roundabout, sharp clunk and lost all gears. Real horrible grinding sound when engaging drive

Is that definitely your gearbox? The sharp clunk and loss of all drive is exactly what happened when my driveshaft let go. Plus the crunchy grind when trying to engage any gear.

Granted, it did damage part of the gearbox in the same process, but you might have been lucky?

 

[chris blue]

Is that definitely your gearbox? The sharp clunk and loss of all drive is exactly what happened when my driveshaft let go. Plus the crunchy grind when trying to engage any gear.

Granted, it did damage part of the gearbox in the same process, but you might have been lucky?

I had a look at both driveshafts, and they were in place and not loose
Ive changed 2 x driveshafts so far, with varying degrees of noise, and it doesnt sound like either of them
I wish you were right, but feel that it is gearbox
Was my original thought within about 2 seconds of the problem happening

 

[bozothenutter]

Could be just the circlip?

 

[chris blue]

Could be just the circlip?

Is that easier to deal with?

 

[Hollidog]

It's just a circlip that holds the Bush in place, they can fall out. Can access from under the car easy. It doesn't sound like what you describe through, you can still get into gears but not the one you're expecting, 5th where 3rd should be, can't find reverse etc.

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[bozothenutter]

I actually meant the circlip holding the diff in.
That would need a renfort pate

 

[chris blue]

other than looking at the clutch, any other useful modifications that can be done when swapping a box out?

 

[Hollidog]

Big budget - Gripper
Low(ish) budget - Lightweight flywheel
Running both and I would forego the flywheel for the diff given the choice, depends on how many road miles you do

 

[Robbie Corbett]

New Renault clutch cable - made a huge difference to mine!
Various engine/gerbox mounts
Various ways of improving the shifer.

 

[bozothenutter]

mirror polish the dent in the clutch arm that serves as the pivot point, grease it and get a new pivot point, keeps the clutch action very smooth

 

[MLB]

New Renault clutch cable - made a huge difference to mine!
Various engine/gerbox mounts
Various ways of improving the shifer.

What difference did it make? Lighter pedal?

 

[Djw John]

How much is shipping to Edinburgh? I'll send the £500 the now.

I must admit it was when my refurbed gearbox was broken as soon as I installed it I called it quits. Logically it was still the right answer. Emotionally it probably was as well. But I still miss it!

 

[banhama]

Big budget - Gripper
Low(ish) budget - Lightweight flywheel
Running both and I would forego the flywheel for the diff given the choice, depends on how many road miles you do

Totally agree with the Gripper Lsd, also the PMS lightweight flywheel. Big laptime improvement.

 

[chris blue]

Good comments-will ask for all mounts to be checked, and what about if the clutch needs changing?

I love mine atm as the bite is quite severe- is the VALEO clutch the standard? Reckon my existing is non standard

 

[Hollidog]

I have a Helix racing clutch, not cheap and it took them ages to get it together, but it's great. I'd be cautious of Valeo at the moment, lots of stories on here of them failing. Someone will know more accurately the specifics but something about there being two manufacturers/suppliers and one of them having lots of issues.

 

[Robbie Corbett]

What difference did it make? Lighter pedal?

Yes, soother and substantially lighter!

 

[NorthloopCup]

Good comments-will ask for all mounts to be checked, and what about if the clutch needs changing?

I love mine atm as the bite is quite severe- is the VALEO clutch the standard? Reckon my existing is non standard

If you’re fitting a clutch, it needs to be the genuine Renault one mate. I’ve just had one for £177:50 with flywheel bolts as well.

 

[chris blue]

If you’re fitting a clutch, it needs to be the genuine Renault one mate. I’ve just had one for £177:50 with flywheel bolts as well.

Is that bcos the VALEO isnt up to the job?

Hopefully mines got another 5-10k miles in it

 

[NorthloopCup]

Is that bcos the VALEO isnt up to the job?

Hopefully mines got another 5-10k miles in it

It’s just not the same as the genuine Renault valeo mate. I’ve seen more clutch failures from the ‘oem replacement’ clutch kit than I ever have of the original/genuine items. It’s weird mate

 

[ripp]

Well you could take a small risk and buy another box for 150-200. I did this and I was lucky, got a box that works sweet. Or just get a rebuild one for 5-600 if you can afford it.

 

[chris blue]

Well you could take a small risk and buy another box for 150-200. I did this and I was lucky, got a box that works sweet. Or just get a rebuild one for 5-600 if you can afford it.

That is pretty much my plan. A Clio specialist can supply and fit a good used one, so probably ignore doing the clutch and just see how the used gearbox goes. I do about 4000 miles a year, and only want it to last 3 years or so, till i upgrade the car.

However, arranging the Transport to the garage (20 miles away) is proving a pain, then having to collect it in a pandemic.

I suppose there is a fey perks to being a Key Worker

 

[chris blue]

Got a used Cup JC5-129 going into mine today, from a Clio specialist Mechanic
Supplied and fitted
Will be interested to see how the gear ratio differences affect the drive

Wonder how long it will last, 5k miles will do me of joint track and road use. That will get me to next Belt date and then make a decision overall whether to move up to another Clio.

Of course, could all go belly up............................. but then again i will have my original JC5-089 I can send up the Northloop for a refurb )))))))))))

 

[chris blue]

So, I have now got a used Cup gearbox (129) in the car (Last friday)
When the Mechanic took the old box out, clutch needed replacing too. Fair enough, thats done too.

He then told me the circlip is fine, so the original box must be damaged elsewhere

He then called me this morning, saying clutch and gearbox replaced, and issue is still there................. (So the original box is fine???)

He then takes out the drivers side driveshaft, and apparently there is a "spider" mechanism he referred to it as, in the driveshaft, which has failed, and that was only replaced last year. He has another driveshaft which he has fitted, which he thinks will do the trick, but has yet to road test it. He has contacted Autodoc and complained about the driveshaft he fitted last year, and they will refund or replace under warranty- but he doesnt like the quality of it

All very bizarre- The videocam of when the box failed, dont half sound like the gearbox gone (Circlip) and several others have said so

All very strange.

 

[Robbie Corbett]

Is that definitely your gearbox? The sharp clunk and loss of all drive is exactly what happened when my driveshaft let go. Plus the crunchy grind when trying to engage any gear.

Granted, it did damage part of the gearbox in the same process, but you might have been lucky?

Win.

@chris blue thats bad luck, at least you have a spare working box that could be sold to get some money back?

 

[chris blue]

Win.

@chris blue thats bad luck, at least you have a spare working box that could be sold to get some money back?

Yes, looks like you could be right, (10 months since new!!) but at the moment he hasnt confirmed all is working after replacing gearbox, clutch and Driveshaft
He still thinks driveshaft related, but Ive not been made aware he has resolved issue yet, so still not sure......
This is after RAC, and several others on here went for gearbox. Mind you, i thought gearbox too, so did he.

Still, clutch was pretty much gone, and gearbox had several issues, so am happy if the replacement one is good.

He may put the original 089 back, then again I then nervous the issue will be the Box as well....

Still- down to the Mechanic at the moment

 

[Robbie Corbett]

Yes, looks like you could be right, (10 months since new!!) but at the moment he hasnt confirmed all is working after replacing gearbox, clutch and Driveshaft
He still thinks driveshaft related, but Ive not been made aware he has resolved issue yet, so still not sure......
This is after RAC, and several others on here went for gearbox. Mind you, i thought gearbox too, so did he.

Still, clutch was pretty much gone, and gearbox had several issues, so am happy if the replacement one is good.

He may put the original 089 back, then again I then nervous the issue will be the Box as well....

Still- down to the Mechanic at the moment

Don't blame you, if mine was making the noise you describe I would have thought gearbox too, its not like they are known for having bullet proof boxes either!

 

[chris blue]

In the end i got the gearbox replaced with a Cup one (Good/used) got the driveshaft changed (Good/used) and the clutch at the same time (good/used)

The Clio failed the MOT a weeks later, LOL, on a few naff things (HID Headlights, Bulkhead fire protection, loose cabling etc etc) but the biggest thing was some welding. So got the welding done (£ooooshh) and have now passed MOT

So, been out for a nice few spirited drives , which keeps me sane, and noticed a little bit of a grinding noise, not there when out of gear or coasting, so suspect its gearbox, possibly driveshaft, or clutch. Doesnt make the usual noise for a clutch release bearing, so probably the box bearings???

Soon as I turn the radio on, cant hear it, and the box works fab. Nice n smooth, no clunky
I knew the risks if fitting used box, I just wonder how long it will last?? especially if it gets a few track visits next year

Still got the JC5-089 which will come in handy to get refurbed and fit in a few months time, but at the moment spent quite a few £££££ on Clio, so gonna run with what I have for a while

My attitude is better the devil you know, so not that upset about the costs TBH- depends how much more they escalate really

Any comments welcome