Heal an toe’in

[Fu Man Chu]

Who can do it? Used to have a valver when I was younger and found it impossibe but in the last few weeks ive started to have another go on the country roads back from work.

Can do it nice and smooth now but im that focused on gettin it right theres no way im doing it at any kind of speed for it to make a difference!

As for left food braking...................

 

[Christopher]

im still dipping my toe in the water when it comes to left foot braking!...lol

a few times iv needed to do it, so i did only for the ABS to intervene!....pfft! Give me a Cup anyday.

--chris

 

[stevoversteer]

Ive been trying to perfect it, not easy with size 13 feet but im getting much better at it. Doesnt make much difference on your average road but im hoping it will help me a lot come the nurburgring!

Left foot braking is immense fun to practise but unbelievably difficult to get right consistently

 

[BenR]

i dont drive without it anymore.

Downshifting is so unsmooth, jerky and wears a clutch like nothing else without at least a match.

 

[jongsr4]

i heel and toe every time i change down a gear, once you get the hang of it you will just do it without even thinking about it really

quick tip, which you probably will know anyway, although its called heel and toe, it is generally best to use the outside of your right foot to blip the accelerator, whilst using the inside of your right foot to brake, its generally a lot easier than trying to move your heel over to the accl pedal

its a good idea to practice this though because its very beneficial on your car if you use it properly, much less wear and tear on the clutch.

 

[MarkCup]

As above, I cant change down without doing it anymore - I do it without thinking.

 

[miketheman2k]

I might try that jongsr4 ....

Heal and toe used to be easy in my frp where the pedals were at the same level when applying the brakes and blipping the accelerator, but in the v6, even when the brake pedal is pressed quite hard, its still a lot higher than the accelerator pedal, so you can not physically get your heal that far down!

Any further tips would be greatly appreciated, cos not only does it cause less wear on the clutch...it sounds sweet too!

 

[Turkish]

i find it easier to use the inside/outside of my foot rather than heel/toe. makes for a much smoother drive and as said above an easier life for the drive train of the car.

 

[blink172]

As per Jongs, i find it easier to use the one foot and balance it across both pedals, the 172s pedals are positioned perfectly ive found.

 

[Weeman]

Yup same here, just roll the right foot over and blip the throttle, took some practising and foot slipping off pedals, but it comes naturally now.

 

[MarkCup]

A couple of good articles here for anyone thats not sure how to get started...

http://www.waycoolinc.com/z3/essentials/fixit/heeltoe/shifting.htmhttp://www.waycoolinc.com/z3/essentials/fixit/heeltoe/shifting.htm

http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/howto/articles/45792/article.htmlhttp://www.edmunds.com/ownership/howto/articles/45792/article.html

 

[y0z2a]

its like virginity, once youve cracked it, its a natural thing to do.

/y0z

 

[miketheman2k]

 

[clarkiev6]

i do it in my hill climber (r5 turbo 1) but in the v its a lot more difficult!! lol

 

[David]

tbh it sounds like a waste of time...although im sure im missing the point..

 

[Ali]

No real need for it...I do it, but there generally is no need. Racing the caterham etc requires it in order not to lock the rear transmission.

 

[MarkCup]

Quote: Originally posted by David on 02 February 2005

tbh it sounds like a waste of time...although im sure im missing the point..

I think you may well be...

 

[clarkiev6]

when you are coming into a corner it stops the lurch on the box this causes a lot of strain on the gearbox, as the rear wheels are trying to stop turning.

as said by ajr.. a light rear wheel drive car will lock up the rear tyres and de-stabilise the car. on front wheel drive trailbraking is more effective... but thats another thread me thinks.... lol

 

[y0z2a]

Quote: Originally posted by AJRMOTORSPORT on 02 February 2005
No real need for it...I do it, but there generally is no need. Racing the caterham etc requires it in order not to lock the rear transmission.


*rubbish*, it depends entirely on how you drive, and i think the 172 being such a demanding engine to drive - IE you have to thrash it, it does warrant use.

It offers less mechanical stresses on the engine, and helps pass the stresses over different components.

/y0z

 

[derv]

Quote: Originally posted by jongsr4 on 01 February 2005


quick tip, which you probably will know anyway, although its called heel and toe, it is generally best to use the outside of your right foot to blip the accelerator, whilst using the inside of your right foot to brake, its generally a lot easier than trying to move your heel over to the accl pedal

hmm, thats worth noting , cus in the valver its impossible to get your heel up to the accellerator, havent tried it on the move yet though, probably get my foot stuck or something knowing me!

 

[Mondial172]

French cars pedels are awful!

Havent yet found one ive got on with.

 

[® Andy]

Have heel and toed (well sidefooted) since I was a lad ... my first car needed double declutching on occasion too. I defo sidefoot when Im changing down at pace in the 172 ... easy to do ... tho dont over do it since K-Tec once warned me that <insert something technical to do with followers or somesuch> was the only weak point on 172 engine (otherwise bullet proof) and that doing too much of the "wow ... wow .... wow" engine braking / downchanges with blimps, might hurt. Who was I to argue

What Ive been trying to get my head around recently is trail braking ... apparently will help with turn in on the V6. Probably not something for me to practicing in the wet in the 172 tho

 

[Dave]

I have dabbled recently though only blipping with outside of right foot. Easier when Im wearing my wider trainers!!

Would never ever bother with left foot braking. My left foot might as well be a lead weight as far as that is concerned.

 

[Mrdemon]

i can do it just driving normally.

what i find hard though is doing it when you need it ie,

cadance breaking very hard and heal and toe at the same time.

now thats hard in the clio me thinks, so if you boys who say u can do that easy without thinking then your a better man than me .

 

[nathanH]

Ive mastered the double declutching, its second nature now, do it on every down change. But heal and toeing... i end up consentrating on getting it right with my feet and not on driving. i do find it hard in the clio tho, the brake pedal is quite high even when pressed compared to the accelerator.

must master it tho, its such a smooth and rewarding way of driving.

 

[Paul J]

Heel-toe on a road car is generally awkward, you have to realise that where this is used (on-track) the cars will have pedal boxes with well posistioned pedals to exactlly suit the driver.

Cant see the need on the road, gains f**k all on the drive home and the standard clutch is up to the job of even mild tuned fast road use.

 

[almaghrbi]

You cant claim you are a good driver without knowing how to do it. It keeps the car balanced while down shifting and it gives you a big advantage in the wet. You are meant to use the two sides of the foot not the heel or toe. The name belongs to long time ago (1950s) when the accelerator pedal was in the middle and the brake pedal was on the right...

 

[Paul J]

How does this effect balance that much in a Clio (FWD) car? Weight is transfered over the front wheels anyway and will simply need adjustment to your braking pressure to prevent locking.

 

[almaghrbi]

Quote: Originally posted by Paul J on 02 February 2005

How does this effect balance that much in a Clio (FWD) car? Weight is transfered over the front wheels anyway and will simply need adjustment to your braking pressure to prevent locking.

Ok, I will explain

Once you hit the brakes, you have caused the car to slow down and you have already shifted weight to the front. As the car slows down the weight shifting has already taken place. Now you need to down shift to get the car in the right gear for acceleration through the next corner.... If you do not match the revs of the engine with the gear that you are selecting (achieved through heel and toe) you will jolt the car (another weight transfer) just before entering the corner. This 2nd weight transfer will unsettle the car and will result in lower grip through the corner. This is very noticeable in wet conditions

 

[Paul J]

Why are you not selecting the correct gear during braking ready for use straight away to balance and then accelerate.

You honestly see this as a useful technique for the road?

 

[almaghrbi]

Quote: Originally posted by Paul J on 02 February 2005


Why are you not selecting the correct gear during braking ready for use straight away to balance and then accelerate.

You honestly see this as a useful technique for the road?

You are selecting the right gear while you are braking. But remember that at that point you will have your clutch on.

In racing, brakes are used to slow the car and gearing is what it is (to select the right gear, not to slow the car). This is because the ultimate balance control is achieved through the brakes not through gears. You will appreciate this when you brake really hard from top speeds.

Outside driving at the limit, this technique helps to save your gearbox and extend its life. and the more you do it the better sense you have of braking properly because it will help your timing.

 

[y0z2a]

Quote: Originally posted by Paul J on 02 February 2005
Why are you not selecting the correct gear during braking ready for use straight away to balance and then accelerate. You honestly see this as a useful technique for the road?


if you were to do a lap (of a circuit and were then to do a h&T lap) in your car u think you would find the h&t lap a lot smoother)

/y0z

 

[silvagti]

Gotta agree that it makes a big difference even if you only use it on downshifts. Ive got a Civic Type-R and its pretty common to drop down 2-3 gears at a time if you want to overtake. If you drop down from 6th to 3rd at 50 mph without blipping the revs up to 5k the jolt you get when releasing the clutch is seriously brutal. Been trying to do it when going round corners in conjunction with breaking (heel and toeing) but its not really something you can do without practice until it becomes second nature.

 

[y0z2a]

smooth = carrying speed and stability = faster laps.

/y0z