Hopping/judder under hard left cornering?!

[Linsen]

Hi everybody,

I know there are several threads about hopping or knocking under hard acceleration in 1st, and I have that too. I know that this might be fixed by adjusting the engine mounts, which I will try soon, however, I am also getting severe juddering or hopping under hard left cornering (my car is left hand drive, of course). It is not really accompanied by a knocking noise, but it certainly does feel like the right front wheel is hopping. The judder seems to shake the whole car. You might want to have a look at this video to get an idea of what I am talking about. Unfortunately, it doesn't really tell the full stroy. When in the car, it feels much more severe, but the video at least shows that the car is shaking (forward to 3:08, 3:48, 5:01 or 5:42). The only way to avoid it is going much slower. This does not happen under hard right cornering.

So, does anybody know if this will be cured by adjusting the engine mounts, changing mounts or the like? Or does this seem to be something more serious? A faulty drive shaft or some bushings, or whatever?

I'd really appreciate some answers as it really spoils the track time.

Regards,

Linsen

 

[davebem]

Its hard to say what could be causing that. Have you checked the tyre?? I doubt its the driveshaft, has the car had any suspension mods?

 

[Cro]

might be the lower ball joint / arm. how is the top mount?could be alot of things but at least something to check

 

[Linsen]

Thanks for your answers.

I know that it's not the tyre, as I had it on two different sets. Suspension is stock but soon to be changed to the Eibach pro kit. When that happens, I'll replace the top mounts anyway, so I'll see if that helps. And I guess a thorough look at the rest of the suspension components is on order then as well.

Regards,

Linsen

 

[Plimsole]

Same as mine... it's the reason I don't want to do a track day :-(

We are not the only ones either, at least three others with the same...

Left hand corners only, have to be pushing it a bit. There is a list of parts I've replaced trying to fix it, with no luck.

Next port of call for me is both upper and lower gearbox mounts.

If you fix it, please post!

 

[Linsen]

Hey Plimsole, doesn't make it better, that there are others with the same problem, but it's still good to know that I'm not alone.

Top mounts have been replaced on monday and Eibach springs were fitted along with OZ F1s and Toyo R888s. When we fitted them, we noticed that there's a tiny bit of play in the front wheels. Probably the tie rods* (hope this is the right term), which are not quite perfect anymore. Should be the same on both sides, though, so I doubt this is really causing that. I'll probably have a track day this weekend and see how it goes.

Edit*): "track rods" is probably the right word.

 

[Plimsole]

keep me posted.

I'm fitting the engine mounts next week, so I'll let you know if that fixes it

a couple of the others afflicted below...

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=130323

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=275294

 

[Linsen]

Update: New top mounts didn't cure the problem, neither do the Eibach springs or the semi slicks make any difference to the hopping and juddering. Could it be that the right front damper is somehow knackered?

I'd really like to keep this thread going and hear from others with the same problem, as the hopping and juddering is really, really annoying on track. It keeps me from using the car and the tyres to their full potential in left-hand corners. I can even tell by just looking at the tyre's tread: left front gets used all the way to the edge on the R888s while on the left front there's still a cm left that shows no sign of wear at all. And they were used on a track that's driven counter-clockwise! There's just no way of getting optimal slip angles under cornering, because as soon as you exceed a certain speed and a certain steering angle, the hopping and juddering starts. It doesn't feel healthy at all.

 

[Plimsole]

I'm picking up the engine mounts tonight, and fitting by the end of the week, so I'll let you know if that fixes it.

I've already had new driveshafts fitted (both sides) so just to finish off that possibility I'm going to fit a new intermediate bearing (the one that sits in the middle of the O/S driveshaft) if the engine mounts don't fix it. Got to have the shaft off anyway as the inner CV boot has a tear in it

Dissapointed the springs didn't work for you, that would have been a nice mod for me!

I know it doesn't sound or feel healthy, but mines been doing it for nearly two years and nothing has broken... yet!!

 

[Linsen]

Well, the Eibachs work really well overall, except for hard left turns. But I suppose there are no springs that would change anything.

How about the dampers? Have you had them checked somewhere along the line? I reckon you are on stock dampers, aren't you?

 

[Plimsole]

No, I've not checked the dampers and yep, my suspension setup is completely standard, except for the strut top washers mod.

If I can fix the cornering noise, then I'll give a track day a go, then I'll try and justify Eibachs!

 

[Plimsole]

Fitted the engine mounts in a couple of hours. The noise is all but gone!!

I'm not saying it's completely fixed, you can still just about make it out, but it is much, much better.

I still suspect something drivetrain so I'm going to do the intermediate bearing anyway whilst the driveshaft is off.

I'll post some photo's of the mounts I took off as you can see some damage. The strange thing is I expected it to be lateral damage (left/right) but the mount is damaged in the front/back direction. Any thoughts?...

 

[Linsen]

That's good news! I'll have my car in for the 80.000km service tomorrow and tell the garage to check the engine mounts then. Pictures would be appreciated, though.

 

[Plimsole]

I'll post some photos up in the next few days.

It's improved to the point were I'm thinking about track days!! Perhaps even the 'Ring....

2 years, hundreds of pounds, hours of fiddling, 3 garages opinions, and it turned out to be £60 worth of engine mounts

 

[Linsen]

Little update on my part: According to a Renault mechanic my drive shaft sleeve (cuff? cast?) needs doing, but that shouldn't have anything to do with the juddering, I suppose. All engine mounts and suspension parts are supposedly fine. Except for the ARB rubbers (bearings?) which need replacement. But they're knackered on both sides and it shouldn't cause juddering either, I reckon.

Also, the gearbox mount is in bad shape. Which in fact could be a reason for the judder, I suppose. I'll have those things done soon and report if it helped.

 

[Plimsole]

Some photos. Looks ok from the top



On the bottom though



the lower mount looked ok to be honest, but I changed it anyway.

do you mean the dogbone mount? I think I'm going to change that too, because of the way the mount above seems to have failed (with the engine moving front to back. With a new dogbone mount hopefully this movement will be as it should be...

 

[Linsen]

I'm not sure which mount exactly that is, but it can't be the dogbone mount, as the mechanic quickly checked it while I was there and it was fine. I think he said something about the "rear gearbox mount".

 

[Plimsole]

Rear gear box mount sounds to me like a description of the dogbone mount (although its more like a link than a mount). Pick a new OE one up on monday, hopefully fitted that evening.

Just so we understand one another there are four engine mounts on the 172 engine, top right (can be seen with the bonnet open), left upper (under the battery), left lower (between the gearbox and subframe), and rear dogbone link.

The right hand anti roll bar bush was worn through on my car too and I also have a split in the driveshaft boot (cuff as you put it above!). Sounds like the juddering causes similar failures on both our cars all over the engine bay!

As I've said I still suspect that its the right hand driveshaft is the root cause. The last time I had the wheel off I span the disk and could see some run out (radial movement) on the inner CV joint. I'm still going to replace the intermediate bearing before my MOT next month.

I'll let you know if the dogbone link makes any improvement.

 

[RED5]

Hi, did you get this prob sorted? I have a RSC 172 with the same noise & vibration on left hand turns only. I wonder if its the roll bar binding up in its bushes? anyone tried fitting new bushes to the roll bar?

 

[CHRIS-172]

lads, was there a confirmed fix to this.

ive had this on my 172FF in Aus for about 6 months and about 1/2 dozen other cars have this as well, would love to get your feedback.


a link to the thread ive started on the Aus website.
http://www.ozrenaultsport.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10555&p=163203#p163203
Ps you lads should register, Dave with the liquid 182 just joined up :rasp:

 

[Hutchie]

i have a 1.4 sport at work with this problem dead annoying

 

[CHRIS-172]

thoughts are that it could be the RHS driveshaft bottoming out and being fully engaged in the spline.

what causes this im unsure. over the weekend im thinking about loosening the engine mountd off and seeing ti the engine can be laterally moved to the passenger side and forward and that this could give the drivesaft that little bit more room to not bottom out on the female drive spline.


thoughts?

 

[Cupster]

Same thing on full lock to the right only for me. Feels as though the wheel is skipping/slipping or something. Fine anywhere else apart from on full lock.

It has to be due to wear somewhere and I only really noticed it since I regreased a seized caliper slider so maybe I moved/disturbed something?! The noise is definately not related to the brakes though, 100% and I had the other usual 'knocking on full lock' sorted under warranty years ago.