how exactly do the clio race cars put out 200 BHP?

[minisuper666]

I was wondering. Clio race cars (172/182) were supposed to put out 200 BHP with stock internals, correct? These were supposed to be the exact same internals of their current-day production cars.



So.. why do we struggle so much to get that extra 30 bhp on a regular production car?? Im sure someone here can give an exact answer as opposed to "different mapping/exhaust/intake".

Regards,

 

[McGherkin]

Im sure someone here can give an exact answer as opposed to "different mapping/exhaust/intake".

You've answered your own question really. It's not really a problem to get extra horsepower out of the F4R, by fitting ITBs, cams, an uprated exhaust and then mapping it, hey presto you're at 200bhp. You can get 280bhp NA if you've got the money to spend. (although obviously you're changing the internals then)



But the main problem is cost. Everything's bloody expensive!

 

[minisuper666]

i meant, the race cars dont have itbs, turbos, or different cams. So how did they make the extra horses?

 

[Mar172]

With deep pockets

 

[Dan@SJM]

Iirc they weren't 200bhp. Certainly hope not anyway as my 421'd 172 would catch a cup car along the straights.

 

[Martin.]

Isn't it just like saying the 182 has 182bhp, when we all know it only really has 170 odd standard on average.

 

[Chi]

I need 421's in my life )

 

[MartinR]

Iirc there was no power increase. Just a seqential box i think, so seemed quicker.

 

[Nick172Cup]

Blueprinted engine, different air filter setup, different timing and ECU. Probably other little things as well that contribute to making more power than a standard road going Clio, but not 200bhp

 

[Munson]

K-tec remap.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Whoever told you 200bhp, they lied.

 

[C.Stocks]

K-tec remap.

lol

 

[Dan519]

Nick has summed it up really. They just optimised everything without road car compromises. Also the sequential gearbox has very low parasitic losses so more power is transmitted to the wheels. They didn't however have 200, that's a myth no matter what's claimed.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Whoever told you 200bhp, they lied.

This

They were stock engines with a slightly different ecu map, filter and exhaust. They were nowhere near 200bhp.
I've been on track with one and mine passed it easily on straights.
They were just bloody quick through corners thanks to the sequential box, suspension and tyres so they carry more speed.

 

[Goodj]

The livery adds 10hp before you even open the bonnet, just like any other stickers IIRC

 

[Sam@NP]

squential box with bespoke gear ratios and tiny shift times is what gives most of the straight line performance.

 

[minisuper666]

I figured the sequential box played a major role in how the car performed. Anyway, anyone ever put a race car on the rollers to se exactly how much power it put out?

 

[Daverb]

Its actually the diff that makes the biggest difference with the clio cup cars.

I had mine dyno'd at 198 with a airfilter, decat and exhaust so not sure why its a myth?

 

[ed55j]

What box/diff/shafts did they use? All Sadev stuff?

 

[minisuper666]

Its actually the diff that makes the biggest difference with the clio cup cars.

I had mine dyno'd at 198 with a airfilter, decat and exhaust so not sure why its a myth?

The diferential makes a difference on how the power reaches the wheels, but it doesnt play a role on the atcual power values.

So what exactly is your airfilter and exhaust setup? and what power was your racer putting out before the mods??

 

[Chip-mk1]

Its actually the diff that makes the biggest difference with the clio cup cars.

i assume you mean to corner exit speeds not engine power output?

I had mine dyno'd at 198 with a airfilter, decat and exhaust so not sure why its a myth?

It depends what rollers you put your faith in I guess.
Do you have the printout still for yours?

 

[Advikaz]

They run a different box as mentioned above. And also from what I understand a blue printed motor & different ECU naturally. Also a diff which means they can get the power down better.

Over inflated renault specs as always.

Pretty sure the d/shafts are also sadev.

 

[Cup_Phil]

If you got 198bhp then that was due to the wrong gearing because of the sadev or a VERY optimistic set of rollers

They ran a blue printed engine, a cone filter and a slightly remapped ecu.
They would have been near as damnit 170bhp.


FYI last years clio cup racers made 205bhp - they're based on the clio 200.

 

[Chip-mk1]

If you got 198bhp then that was due to the wrong gearing because of the sadev

I love lamp.


Can you explain how "the wrong gearing" could give it a reading of more power please Phil?

 

[p@blo]

What box/diff/shafts did they use? All Sadev stuff?

STDSA on the 2000 cars, st75-15 from 2001 onwards. Sadev diff & shafts with both.

I love lamp.


Can you explain how "the wrong gearing" could give it a reading of more power please Phil?

Do you really love the lamp, or are you just saying it because you saw it?

 

[Cup_Phil]

I love lamp.


Can you explain how "the wrong gearing" could give it a reading of more power please Phil?

I love chair.

Running it in 4th assuming that was the closest to 1:1 on the rollers?
Unless that's another rolling road myth and you're about to correct me lol

What about transmission losses? Do the sadev boxes lose less due to straight cut gears?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Running it in 4th assuming that was the closest to 1:1 on the rollers?
Unless that's another rolling road myth and you're about to correct me lol

There is still a gear close to 1:1 on the sadev that can be used IIRC, but 1:1 isnt a magical figure that has to be used anyway.

What about transmission losses? Do the sadev boxes lose less due to straight cut gears?

Not a huge difference like some people think just on the gear type, but yes boxes do vary in how much transmission loss they give, not just down to straight cut gears though, better bearings etc, and even a better fluid can effect it, so its perfectly possible that his sadev was giving less losses and hence making the rolling road operator think (wrongly) that it was making more power as a result.

Dyno dynamics for example, they use an estimate of 15% for transmission losses on all FWD cars, on some cars that will be very close to accurate, on others it wont, and this will effect the readings a lot.
Even just if the gear oil is warm or not can make a few bhp difference in some cases.