ClioSport.net
Register a free account today to become a member!
Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission. Read more here.
Hunting big power
- Thread starter Nodded
- Start date
Some of the serious 'charged cars must have had that sort of money spent them? By the time you've got it 'charged and engine components, coilies, seats, cage, brakes, and labour, that would have to set you over £10k?
You can't jut bolt a turbo on though! Charging in cheating!
See how you get on, but you are going to need a full forged, blueprinted and fully balanced bottom end. HUGE amounts of headwork and some silly cams. Not to mention a serious intake system, major exhaust manufacture and better cooling systems. The power will be at very high revs, and it will need thrashing to death! I have no idea how the box will handle that power, but I suspect it will need some strengthening, a diff and some custom shafts.
Sounds like fun to me. Good luck.
See how you get on, but you are going to need a full forged, blueprinted and fully balanced bottom end. HUGE amounts of headwork and some silly cams. Not to mention a serious intake system, major exhaust manufacture and better cooling systems. The power will be at very high revs, and it will need thrashing to death! I have no idea how the box will handle that power, but I suspect it will need some strengthening, a diff and some custom shafts.
Sounds like fun to me. Good luck.
LOL what are you telling me here that one one ever does anything silly, I have been doing that all my life no point stopping now.
Pete I am starting with a Clio cup car so the box and shafts are well up to the task, it's all about the motor exhaust etc
And no I can't go down the turbo route as I will never be able to race the car.
Let's see what tomorrow brings perhaps the recommendation I have from Borromens is the people I been looking for.
Sounds like the most sensible car to start with then! Seriously, good luck. Can't wait to read more.
TDF are better, trust me
Matt use to map F1 engines for a living, his engine builder has 10+ recent WRC wins to his name, yada yada yada
not bad i supposeI wasn't suggesting that he goes the forced induction route.... Just saying, there's plenty of people who have spent 10k+ on a Clio. I'm soon to join the list of nutjobs
Welcome to the club of nutters LOL
Rich NO metal almost certanly, but lifes short and you got to do what you got to do. :evil:
This is insane. The only reason someone would attempt this is if money was literally no object, and they'd already done it with far better engines. Money to burn. If that's the case then fair enough, but honestly I suspect some trolling. Sorry if I'm wrong. Well I'm not but you have to say these things in 2011.
Race cars cost money to build and racing is expensive, but I can't take it with me so I might as well enjoy it.
Sir_Dave
ClioSport Trader
Buy a faster car.
surely that's gonna be making peak power at something like 10Krpm, I can't see an F4R doing that with it's small bore and long stroke.
I spoke to TDF today and they said it is possible to get 300+ BHP, but they have not yet done it as such, but would be happy to take it on. Down side was the price based on rough quote.
While I have a reasonable budget to do this engine, at that price I really would be bonkers. So its of to the south coast to see if my other lead pays off or if they also are to costly.
Wish me luck
While I have a reasonable budget to do this engine, at that price I really would be bonkers. So its of to the south coast to see if my other lead pays off or if they also are to costly.
Wish me luck
182cup & 172 racecar
Waste of time and money tbh.I'm with Roy on this one.
Clio T 314hp c43 AMG
I have done that and as I have seen today it is not only possible but it even fits wit in my budget. I got a better quote that TDF I would not say the engines I have seen today are better than TDF have offered to develop for me but the price difference is vast and at the end of the day 300+ horse power is what I want, but price is also important. I have been invited to go and see one being dyno,ed next week, so let's see if it's BS or not, Hope not as it will be the end of the project otherwise, and I will have to do what the other fella said. buy a faster car.
i doubt you'll beat TDF mate, i know what you were quoted and for a genuine 300+bhp the price is accurate, you're basically building a super touring BTCC engine, the clyinder heads for the TWR volvo 850's were £75K alone, and they did 330bhp
speak to Borrmens, but knock 30bhp off their quoted figure
also speak to Moteur Huger, Sodemo and mechachrome they'll quote you similar (and they ARE billy big b****cks with renault engines)
speak to Borrmens, but knock 30bhp off their quoted figure
also speak to Moteur Huger, Sodemo and mechachrome they'll quote you similar (and they ARE billy big b****cks with renault engines)
i doubt you'll beat TDF mate, i know what you were quoted and for a genuine 300+bhp the price is accurate, you're basically building a super touring BTCC engine, the clyinder heads for the TWR volvo 850's were £75K alone, and they did 330bhp
speak to Borrmens, but knock 30bhp off their quoted figure
also speak to Moteur Huger, Sodemo and mechachrome they'll quote you similar (and they ARE billy big b****cks with renault engines)
I hear what your are saying mate but I am not team volvo just an individual with a few quid to spend. TDF told me that 60 to 70% of their quote would be development cost the actual engine cost is in the realms of possibility, what it comes down to is this if this other
mob has done the development work then I do not need to pay for it although there will be an element of that built in to the price of the engine I do go for.
And I did speak to sodemo first they just are not developing atmo versions of this engine at this time, it was them in fact that put me on to Borromens but they are at the 260 270 BHP level at this time.
What I am interested to know is what makes you say the Borromens engine is 30 BHP under quoted figures?
Please tell.
their figures (in my opinion) arent accurate, ive been in this game a while and have seen a lot of things, people still say 240bhp from a 730 series engine with VVT isnt possible, i did it
matts track record is proven, and well proven, how many people do you know who map current F1 engines for a living?
all im saying is being realistic, a 240bhp F4R 800 series (NA) is going to be approx £7-£10K, add £10K per 10bhp on top of that! the cost of an airbox for example will cost you the same as a tidy 182
matts track record is proven, and well proven, how many people do you know who map current F1 engines for a living?
all im saying is being realistic, a 240bhp F4R 800 series (NA) is going to be approx £7-£10K, add £10K per 10bhp on top of that! the cost of an airbox for example will cost you the same as a tidy 182
If my memory is correct ith was a 2 litre version of the Clio 1 engine
300bhp on an engine dyno = £30K.
300bhp with a warranty, tested rebuild interval (which means you destroy another engine validating that rebuild interval), workshop and track side support to install the engine, packaged to fit a specific bay with all carbon and loom work done to a pro-motorsport standard = £100K.
If you want a bare engine at this level with no warranty, no track side support and no packaging assitance then I'm afraid we can't help. If one of our SP or S2000 engines would suffice (240bhp/280bhp respectively) then these are essentialy off the shelf and supplied in a crate ready to fit. 20bhp doesn't sound a lot but when you're going from 140bhp/litre to 150bhp/litre NA it's a hell of step!
300bhp with a warranty, tested rebuild interval (which means you destroy another engine validating that rebuild interval), workshop and track side support to install the engine, packaged to fit a specific bay with all carbon and loom work done to a pro-motorsport standard = £100K.
If you want a bare engine at this level with no warranty, no track side support and no packaging assitance then I'm afraid we can't help. If one of our SP or S2000 engines would suffice (240bhp/280bhp respectively) then these are essentialy off the shelf and supplied in a crate ready to fit. 20bhp doesn't sound a lot but when you're going from 140bhp/litre to 150bhp/litre NA it's a hell of step!
182cup & 172 racecar
I'll take two
Clio cup car stuff are not up to the task. These components are designed to do 20 min sprint races. The ST75 box is rated to 190ftlbs and will not deal with anything sustained at this level with reliability, especially with an input shaft speed above 9000RPM. We have built three winning 24hour cars based around X85 Clio Cups so have a vast amount of data on the durability and reliability of the standard components.
The ST75 is sufficent for a car making 225bhp used in sub 2 hour races and only then with an effective gearbox oil cooling solution in place. If you wish to stay Sadev (which you can to retain the stock shafts) you need to look at an ST90 or as we did an Xtrac box (but that's 27K on its own).
Realisticaly you're best bet is to purchase one of the ex Laguna/Sodemo F7R BTCC engines which were IRO 310bhp, update it with modern control and data systems and work from there. It will fit an X85 and there is an out of hours/KMs one currently available for £12K, this would need a £10K refresh to go for another 1000KMs reliably + similar cash in data/control/loom.
A bit of interesting info from my archives on the Sodemo F7R:
"Sodemo built ("Sodemo was created in 1981 as the engine side of Snobeck Racing Services")
"Sodemo built ("Sodemo was created in 1981 as the engine side of Snobeck Racing Services")
- F7R engine, also used in the GpA Renault 19, Clio Williams, Clio Maxi & Megane Maxi
- 320bhp
- "Renault engine production in Cleon, Sodemo specialists are there, choosing between these cylinder blocks with the best quality of casting and the most accurate important dimensions to convert into race engines.Typically one in ten will pass muster as race quality."
- "Back in Magny Cours that super-star engine block will have material welded here; standard auxilliary flanges removed there. Then it's carefully machined and polished. Stronger, 30% lighter and different in size and shape, that block will have taken 2 months to prepare."
- "Separately, a similar process is applied to the specially chosen one-out-of-ten cylinder head. It must be stiffer for racing; it must have bigger aspiration ports; Sodemo welds on an aluminium alloy of a precise mix as close as metallurgically possible to the original material. Then comes a special, secret heat treatment process to relieve those stresses introduces by the welding on process. Then machining can commence. Fully prepared - bare - head? Two months again."
- 30 hours to build the block
- 30 hours to build the head
- From OEM to BTCC, one common part: camblet idler pulley
- Downshifts common well in excess of 9,500rpm, despite rev limit at 8,500rpm
- 600/900/1000kms evolution dependent between rebuilds
- "Really top secret stuff is in the surface treatment methods employed to reduce friction. It is also where the biggest costs are."
Yes. We use it extensively for cams, buckets, piston skirts and crank/main bearings and occasionaly for valve stems. Exhaust stem DLC coating is a serious art though!
Issue is if you wish to race in a certain Championship (say BTCC) you have to meet the regulations for that serious, in the past that almost always meant a big spend on engines!
I know! I worked in the materials engineering dept at Brunel for a period assisting the guys developing the process / new applications for it including implant protection, wear reduction and refraction & reflection. Amazing stuff.
Bell me before you pop over to collect the bits you've ordered as I have various F1 cams, valvetrain bits etc. at home that you will want to have a butchers at if you appreciate a good bit of DLC
Similar threads
