I am an idiot

[Diagro]

Hey

Yup indeed i am a first class fool.

Replaced the Shocks and springs, Put wheels back, Loosly put bolts on.

Before i could do them all up my wife calls me into house and then she rushes about to go home (we at her parents).

I forgot entirely that i hadnt actually done up the wheel bolts, And promptly drove 100-200Meters and upon the car shaking Quite badly i realised my foolish mistake.
Got out and did them up.

Now here is my problem.

At 65MPH+ i get a Steering wheel wobble, Much like one you would get from unbalanced wheels.
So upon advice i had the front rebalanced, Chap at Tyre world said i had thrown a weight on one wheel so he redid them.
He did say however, The Plastic spigot rings are not an exact fit, the have a 0.5mm gap around them on the hub and the same if not more in the bore on the wheels.

65MPH again and yup still wobbling but to less of a degree.

have i fked my wheels? My hubs? My car? Arrrh

What i am planning to do next:
1. Replace plastic Spigots with Metal Ones (these are on the way from ebay)
2. Cry

 

[Cub.]

Spigot rings? I'd swap those first as you say.

What wheels are you running to require spigot rings? Are they aftermarket? And what size?

I don't think you will have knackered anything over a 100m or so trundle with loose wheels. Unless they were really, really loose.

 

[Diagro]

Oh Cub, Left side was LOOSE, a good 5mm off the hub.

They are OZ F1 15" with a 67.1 Bore

 

[Cub.]

Oops

At least the wheel didn't fall off. I think it may be the spigot rings, so change those and then test. Did you buy the wheels new or secondhand?

 

[LiamR172]

When I test drove ERIC the black phase 1, the front wheel nuts were loose and sheared 3 of them off, the remaining 1 was lose, the threads in the hub were fucked! All the way to Liverpool from inverness and that happened. Had to leave it where it was and go home empty handed!

 

[Diagro]

Oops

At least the wheel didn't fall off. I think it may be the spigot rings, so change those and then test. Did you buy the wheels new or secondhand?

Wheels were second hand, Great wheels too before this incident there were no issues. Chap at tyre place said wheels look fine, The Bolt holes and the Centre bore don't seem at all warped. So hopefully the wheels are not the issue.

 

[Diagro]

CUB

hey. I dont suppose you know if these are the correct ones for the OZ F1 Wheels?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/60-1-68-O...heels_tyre_Trims_Trims_ET&hash=item1e8462f7bd

Im currently useing 60.1 - 67.1 But they have space around them when actually on the wheel.

From looking at that link i should be after 60.1 - 68MM so that they fit better on the wheels?

if so i will order them, Its just a pain they are 4x the cost of the 60.1 - 67.1 Alloy ones

 

[Diagro]

Should be Cub. not CUB

 

[TheEvilGiraffe]

Those ones you've linked aren't made by OZ. Don't waste your money.

Spigot rings only help line the wheels up .. they don't have any loading going through them.

Do the wheels up properly with a torque wrench. IIRC it's about 110Nm for a Clio ? Google it to confirm.. but that's plenty IMO anyway. If they still wobble about, you've got other issues.

 

[Cub.]

Those ones you've linked aren't made by OZ. Don't waste your money.

Spigot rings only help line the wheels up .. they don't have any loading going through them.

Do the wheels up properly with a torque wrench. IIRC it's about 110Nm for a Clio ? Google it to confirm.. but that's plenty IMO anyway. If they still wobble about, you've got other issues.

My thinking is if the spigot rings aren't lining the wheels up, then this may be causing the wobbling..............

 

[TheEvilGiraffe]

My thinking is if the spigot rings aren't lining the wheels up, then this may be causing the wobbling..............

Then how would the bolts go in at all, Padawan

There's no loading going through a 10 gram plastic washer. It's just to help centralise the wheel before doing the bolts up.

 

[Cub.]

Then how would the bolts go in at all, Padawan

There's no loading going through a 10 gram plastic washer. It's just to help centralise the wheel before doing the bolts up.

A fair point, well made.

 

[TheEvilGiraffe]

A fair point, well made.

Engineer 1 : Bear 0.

:evil:

 

[Diagro]

Now what if the spigot ring thats lining up the wheel is not doing it job? And said wheel is slightly off center? That will cause wobbling yes?

That's what i think is going on now.

Considering both wheels ran straight and true on the balance machine. What else is there?

Did i damage the Steering rack causing it to wobble at speed? or the track rod end?
I'm just not sure what else it can be :/

 

[TheEvilGiraffe]

If the wheel is off centre - how are you getting the bolts into the holes on the hub at all ?

SRS question.

 

[Mr R.]

No.

The ring supports the weight of the car rather than relying on the bolts.

If all 4 bolts are done up tight then the wheel is square.

 

[TheEvilGiraffe]

No.

The ring supports the weight of the car rather than relying on the bolts.

If all 4 bolts are done up tight then the wheel is square.

No it does not. 1200kg car + 4x 100kg adults = 1600kg.. 400kg a corner. Now add shock loading and such into the mix. 5-6-700kg+ at each wheel. Through a 10 gram plastic part....

PS: Wheels aren't square, usually. If they are, that might explain the bumpy sensation OP.. :rasp:

 

[Diagro]

Hmm, Would the incident have caused the bolt holes to warp?

Also i notice when i put the bolts in and do them up, just before i make them tight the wheel can still move up/down slightly. When bolts are tight it doesn't move.. Am i just being daft?

 

[Mr R.]

I'm out.

 

[LiamR172]

Some of these replies.. come on guys! I'm with TEG

 

[Diagro]

Seriously guys i'm genuinely confused here

What can i try now then? If the spigot rings wont make a difference?

 

[masekwm]

The wheel moves? Or is the hub moving?

 

[Diagro]

The Wheel moves up and down. Much like how the Spigot ring moves about in the Center bore. Its simply not the right size so the wheel isnt central when i do it up. Causing Vibrations / wobble. Thats my theory anyway.

 

[Ol’ Tarby]

Stick the back wheels on the front, see if the issue moves to the rear end? At least you'll know if it's a wheel/spigot issue, or a hub problem

 

[Cub.]

Engineer 1 : Bear 0.

:evil:

I'm not saying that the spigot ring is taking the load. I'm saying if the spigot ring is knackered / not the right size, then the wheel may not be centring on the hub properly. As that is the point of a spigot ring, is it not?

"Spigot Rings (Centre Rings) are used to ensure that an alloy wheel is correctly centred on to the hub of the vehicle. If an alloy wheel is fitted without spigot rings it will probably cause the wheel to vibrate, make it almost impossible to balance, increase uneven tyre wear and in time will work the fixings loose. So, fitting wheels without spigot rings can be very dangerous."

 

[Diagro]

I'm not saying that the spigot ring is taking the load. I'm saying if the spigot ring is knackered / not the right size, then the wheel may not be centring on the hub properly. As that is the point of a spigot ring, is it not?

"Spigot Rings (Centre Rings) are used to ensure that an alloy wheel is correctly centred on to the hub of the vehicle. If an alloy wheel is fitted without spigot rings it will probably cause the wheel to vibrate, make it almost impossible to balance, increase uneven tyre wear and in time will work the fixings loose. So, fitting wheels without spigot rings can be very dangerous."

Exactly what i was under the impression was happening.

I will stick the backs onto the front and see what happens.

 

[TheEvilGiraffe]

And again .. how are you getting the bolts into the holes on the hub if it's not centred ?

Also who balances wheels on the car ?

 

[Diagro]

And again .. how are you getting the bolts into the holes on the hub if it's not centred ?

Also who balances wheels on the car ?

Im 100% sure The Bolt holes are not 100% perfectly in the right place vs the wheels on the Hub. hence the reason a spigot ring is used to make sure its center. Otherwise whats the point in a spigot ring?

No one said it was balanced on the car chap.

 

[Mr R.]

I'm not saying that the spigot ring is taking the load. I'm saying if the spigot ring is knackered / not the right size, then the wheel may not be centring on the hub properly. As that is the point of a spigot ring, is it not?

"Spigot Rings (Centre Rings) are used to ensure that an alloy wheel is correctly centred on to the hub of the vehicle. If an alloy wheel is fitted without spigot rings it will probably cause the wheel to vibrate, make it almost impossible to balance, increase uneven tyre wear and in time will work the fixings loose. So, fitting wheels without spigot rings can be very dangerous."

This is what I ment.

 

[Diagro]

So The ring being the wrong size can be a cause for my problems. will wait and see if these new metal ones fit. if not i will let you all know

 

[Jaff.]

Bolts take the weight not the spigots.

The he wheel is centre due to the chamfer on the wheel/bolts.

is the vibration through the wheel or the pedals?
If it's the wheel - focus on the front
if it's the pedals - focus on the back.

Swap front wheels for back and see if the problem moves. If it does then your wheels are shagged, if it doesn't then you've left something loose

 

[Diagro]

Bolts take the weight not the spigots.

The he wheel is centre due to the chamfer on the wheel/bolts.

is the vibration through the wheel or the pedals?
If it's the wheel - focus on the front
if it's the pedals - focus on the back.

Swap front wheels for back and see if the problem moves. If it does then your wheels are shagged, if it doesn't then you've left something loose

Through the wheel atm.

Tyre World in kenilworth said they will stick the backs on the front for me for free just before i go home from work
I will then know if its an issue not to do with the wheels.

Great service there!

 

[Diagro]

Ok..
had a better look.

The wheels are Deffo off center on the hubs. 100% spigot rings at fault here.

Passenger side spring is not seated correctly. It's hanging over the edge of the strut. So that needs fixing.

chap said to sort spring and get correct spigot rings. He said he is sure that will solve it.

We will see

 

[jackfm]

Ok..
had a better look.

The wheels are Deffo off center on the hubs. 100% spigot rings at fault here.

Passenger side spring is not seated correctly. It's hanging over the edge of the strut. So that needs fixing.

chap said to sort spring and get correct spigot rings. He said he is sure that will solve it.

We will see

Christ what a mess. How on earth has your spring unseated itself? Most likely its never been seated properly.

And as the majority of the replies on here have said it is highly unlikely that the spigot rings are the cause of your problems. They are there to help you get the wheel on, once the bolts are tight they do nothing. Not alignment and certainly not weight-baring. The only way I can possibly see them causing any problem is if you have managed to mangle them to a point that they actually get in the way of the wheel mating with the hub.

Anyway, keep us posted. I for one am genuinely interested to find out what you've broken

Hope you get it fixed.

 

[172_Tom]

I would fix the unseated spring first and drive very carefully until this is sorted.

Did you torque the bolts up properly after replacing the shocks/springs? The bolts between the hub and strut need to be done up really tight and without the right tools you might not have done them up tight enough.

What's your procedure for doing the wheel bolts up? With the wheel off the ground you should tighten the opposing bolts first and just nip them up, then with the wheel back on the ground do up the opposing bolts to full torque.

 

[Diagro]

To do them up. When up in air I do them up enough to hold wheel in place.
then when back on ground I do them up with a long arm brake bar. Not too tight but enough that they won't simply undo.
I want to get a torque wrench but they are moola expensive


also

just put spring back in correct place.
also am trying something with these spigot rings. Will update when I get home after a brisk drive

 

[JamesBryan]

To do them up. When up in air I do them up enough to hold wheel in place.
then when back on ground I do them up with a long arm brake bar. Not too tight but enough that they won't simply undo.
I want to get a torque wrench but they are moola expensive


also

just put spring back in correct place.
also am trying something with these spigot rings. Will update when I get home after a brisk drive

I've used this one for years https://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/cht141-1-2in-drive-torque-wrench

 

[AlexW]

TEG, Jack and Jaff are all right.

Spigots do feck all. Look at your bolts, and your bolt holes, wheres the movement in that? There is none.

 

[masekwm]

Same, but mine is from Argos if you arenot near a MM http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/7004243.htm

 

[Diagro]

TEG, Jack and Jaff are all right.

Spigots do feck all. Look at your bolts, and your bolt holes, wheres the movement in that? There is none.

There is slight movement... considering the fact that I just wrapped my front spigot rings in tape, stuck them onto hub (ooo tight fit) stuck wheel on and now when I spin the wheels they are no longer off center.

so Imo spigot rings are used for a reason as long as they are the right damnnn size!

No idea if it's sorted it tho so back later