I seem to have a Clio 162 :(

[Djw John]

get the plugs out and find someone with an endoscope that can have a look inside the engine

or remove the inlet manifold and turn the engine by hand to check to see if the inlet valves are opening

i know of 1 mk1 172 that made 150bhp, problem was a knackered lambda

and i also know of another that was a 15V from new! that made around 135bhp and would not rev past about 6500rpm, didn't hit the limiter, just stopped reving

Do you mean badinvicbles old car? Only 15v I know of!

 

[Fred@BTM]

yeah we rebuilt it at yozzasport

 

[Djw John]

Ah so you did. Well at least mine hits the limiter easily enough!

 

[xcore]

i dout any 172/182 actually make the said bhp

 

[Djw John]

i dout any 172/182 actually make the said bhp

Missing the point mate. Title would be more accurate if it was "I seem to have a Clio that makes 10bhp less than the dozen other 172s that ran on the same day so it doesnt matter if the rollers were accurate or not" however its a bit long winded

 

[Gaz_]

If your cambelt was done about a year ago they might not of timed it back up correctly?

+1 it wouldn't be the first time, only has to be a smidge out............

 

[Fred@BTM]

^agree

 

[Russ_16v]

Just had a thought as well. Would sticking brake calipers hinder this as well. Not that I know if they are or not but easy to check!

Any opinions on this? Wheels bearings are fine but I guess on a wheel dyno extra drag would affect the reading

yes it could effect the read out matey

 

[D1CKY]

I thought thats where your power would come in and increae on your power graph ?

With the system the Rs has thats similar to VVti :S

Could it be a sensor attached related to your VVti (or 5k kick as its called) that is causing the problems ?

Not being funny mate but if you dont know what you're talking about then dont give advice! The 5k kick is the cam coming into its optimum range, NOTHING to do with vvt. Dont mean to be harsh but you could lead others on a merry dance.

http://www.k-tecracing.com/show_product.asp?id=2034

Just over the Ton but worth it

Bet that decat is a pain in the arse to fit ?

With one flange so far up the back of engine

I have access to garage ramps so will make it easier. But yes, will be a pain in the ring.

I remain unconvinced! Btw it was 123.8bhp at the wheels, how does that compare?

123.8 bhp at the wheels does NOT correspond to 162 bhp at the flywheel.

That's way to high an amount of power (23.6%) to be lost in the drivetrain in a transverse front wheel drive car. The right number is about 15%, or even lower. What that says is that there's serious questions about that dyno and/or its operator. You can't rely on the numbers he's giving you.

However that doesn't answer the question of why your car produced less power than other cars tested on the day that it shouldn't have produced less power than. People can suggest possible reasons, but without evidence of which of the great many of them it could be, you and we have no idea. All they suggest is what it might be worth you investigating first.

Looking at the dyno chart you posted your car looks like it would feel strong in normal road driving. It has a lot of torque at low revs. Rather than your car having a fault that's subtracting power, it looks more like its tuned for torque rather than power. That points the finger at something like cam timing. Was the cam belt put on one tooth out, or somehow incorrectly? Is the VVT fully advancing?

Any easy way of checking this? Would that not cos running issues or possibly even bent valves?!

It does drive well and pulls well from low down. Certainly isnt slow but I do want the full potential from a car that costs a mini fortune for me to do my 20000 miles a year in!

Sorry i was trying to help :S

 

[Eckascliovalver]

Well here is my print out of the day


What do you guys think about the dips etc

Any advice welcome

 

[Djw John]

The fact that it didnt hit 7k, by a fair margin, the strange sound it was making and the similar power its producing to Mikes old car all point to 1 dodgy valve imo. Id place a fiver on it!

 

[Alan]

i dout any 172/182 actually make the said bhp

Wrong, you weren't there so put a sock in it before people end up arguing over figures and this that and the next thing.

 

[Martin_172]

john just so you know on the patern part exhaust thing, i ran 172.9bhp on a standard 172 apart from an ITG filter, and its running a patern part centre section (genuine backbox and cat though) and the exhaust blowing at the join between the cat and centre section.

 

[Andyman]

Is there a website for this rolling road?? How much was it per car??

Might take a trip up as the rolling roads iv been on have never been accurate

 

[Alan]

Is there a website for this rolling road?? How much was it per car??

Might take a trip up as the rolling roads iv been on have never been accurate

Check it out mate: http://www.falkland.co.uk/

 

[Andyman]

Nice one cheers

 

[Djw John]

john just so you know on the patern part exhaust thing, i ran 172.9bhp on a standard 172 apart from an ITG filter, and its running a patern part centre section (genuine backbox and cat though) and the exhaust blowing at the join between the cat and centre section.

Wonder if its the pattern cat then? Gonna check the brakes this week anyway. need a new balljoint so car will be in the air anyway

 

[Martin_172]

not sure how much difference a sticking caliper would make, one of mine was sticking the day before the RR actually, sorted it while doing my brakes, deffo worth a look

pattern cat is probably your problem you would think, made mega cheap! at least it means you get a better power gain from a decat

 

[The Seer]

i dout any 172/182 actually make the said bhp

Wrong, you weren't there so put a sock in it before people end up arguing over figures and this that and the next thing.

I wasn't there either,though I had my 182 Dyno'ed and it made 134 h.p. at the wheels. This was when the engine was tight at 16 K.

Now at 28 K. Engine loosened. Still doesn't feel like what it should. I suspect it's around 140 h.p wheel power. No mods, serviced by the usual specialists.

 

[Djw Dave]

Fred, going back to what you said about the lambda sensor. (cant find post to quote) Would a faulty lambda show up on the dash via an EML light?

Or if i got the car put on the reno diag comp would this pick up previous poss not present fault codes?

 

[Martin_172]

downstream lambda fires on the emmisions light, not sure on an upstream one as ive never had one go.

EDIT: infact its a mk1 172 it only has 1 lambda doesnt it?

 

[Alan]

Wrong, you weren't there so put a sock in it before people end up arguing over figures and this that and the next thing.

I wasn't there either,though I had my 182 Dyno'ed and it made 134 h.p. at the wheels. This was when the engine was tight at 16 K.

Now at 28 K. Engine loosened. Still doesn't feel like what it should. I suspect it's around 140 h.p wheel power. No mods, serviced by the usual specialists.

So you've got a 'friday afternoon' car then or it hasn't been driven properly from new.

 

[Alan]

downstream lambda fires on the emmisions light, not sure on an upstream one as ive never had one go.

EDIT: infact its a mk1 172 it only has 1 lambda doesnt it?

Johns has two cats so will it not have two lambda's mate?

 

[The Seer]

I wasn't there either,though I had my 182 Dyno'ed and it made 134 h.p. at the wheels. This was when the engine was tight at 16 K.

Now at 28 K. Engine loosened. Still doesn't feel like what it should. I suspect it's around 140 h.p wheel power. No mods, serviced by the usual specialists.

So you've got a 'friday afternoon' car then or it hasn't been driven properly from new.

It hasn't been driven like it should from new. Trying to make up for that since I bought it, which has helped. Even though I was told my 134 h.p. wheel figure equals 177 h.p. at the flywheel according to the dyno and staff at Engine Advantages in Witham, Essex.

However to quote a professional at G.D.I. not that many "do" make the quoted figure of 179. Before anyone starts, it's the wheel power figure that is the true representative of engine h.p. unless of course one wishes to have the motor bench tested.

 

[Alan]

Fair play mate, get an exhaust decat and filter on there, it'll free up the revs and give the car the extra 'kick' that it needs.

 

[Mells]

Sorry mate its not very constructive, but you do now have the original ph-very-slo

 

[Alan]

Sorry mate its not very constructive, but you do now have the original ph-very-slo

Maybe your right mate, but the way my R27 can carry speed through corners my old 182 doesn't get a look in, it maybe slower in a straight line but cross country the 197 is quicker than the MK2.

I'm not going to give you the arguement that the R27 is quicker round track etc but be fair its a better all round package than the MK2 ever was standard vs standard anyway.

 

[Djw John]

Sorry mate its not very constructive, but you do now have the original ph-very-slo

haha dick

 

[Eckascliovalver]

The fact that it didnt hit 7k, by a fair margin, the strange sound it was making and the similar power its producing to Mikes old car all point to 1 dodgy valve imo. Id place a fiver on it!

Yeah didnt here it hit the limiter iirc, think it should rev to 6.9k or something like that, but as the graph says it only hit 6.2k not good:dapprove:
Its booked in for monday tho so heres hoping they have an idea,
Is there a computer that they can plug in to see whats wrong? Where will they start looking first?

 

[Djw John]

7250rpm when warm in 1st and 2nd and 7000rpm in 3rd, 4th and 5th

 

[Eckascliovalver]

7250rpm when warm in 1st and 2nd and 7000rpm in 3rd, 4th and 5th

omg im well under then

 

[Djw John]

Yup hence my feelings about the valve

 

[davebem]

John I thought your car had the original 172mk1 cat? (The twin chamber cat). I always thought this cat was superior to the newer 172 cats as its a little less restrictive..

tbh I think you you maybe right about the valve. Heres what the standard one looked like:

 

[Djw John]

Yeah thats what mine looks like but I have an invoice for one :S

 

[skinner]

downstream lambda fires on the emmisions light, not sure on an upstream one as ive never had one go.

EDIT: infact its a mk1 172 it only has 1 lambda doesnt it?

Johns has two cats so will it not have two lambda's mate?

I have the twin cat and 2 sensors.

 

[davebem]

Johns has two cats so will it not have two lambda's mate?

I have the twin cat and 2 sensors.

Most 172mk1 registered between march and june 2001 on a y plate have 2 sensors.

 

[Djw John]

Yeah just checked and it does have 2 sensors

 

[Russ_16v]

7250rpm when warm in 1st and 2nd and 7000rpm in 3rd, 4th and 5th

mine revs to 7200 in the 1st 4 gears? never tried it in 5th lol

 

[Djw John]

mmm will try it again!

 

[GinandGasoline]

Any easy way to check the cat?

i'm sure the cat was done with the exhaust fella - have you looked on the exhaust receipt for what they did?

power never felt like it was that far off the 182 when we drove them back-to-back fella either.

but you must remember that prior to us it had only been driven by ladies pootling around too