I think I have dropped a bol@ock ! - timing belt

[RS182-CLIO]

I got my timing belt done today, spot on lad , used all the tools, great

However I decided not to get the auxillary kit fitted at the same time and now I have a whirring noise !

I dont think it is the timing belt ? I got him to remove the aux belt and check it out and it seemed fine.

Once the engine is fired up its fine for 3secs until engine is at idle and it whirrs, and blip of the throttle and it goes away,

I honestly dont think it could be the timing belt as it was tensioned to the arrows etc.

Any ideas guys?

Cheers

 

[Paddy_g46]

Could have disturbed the dephaser perhaps....Why on earth would you not change the Aux kit! Saving money on these sort of things will in the long run end up costing you a fortune when your engine eats itself! lesson learned?

 

[Cro]

How much of a 'whir' are we talking here, could be the waterpump as thats what it sounds like when it goes.

Lol didnt you post a thread like 2 days ago hoping there would be no whir after some guy fitted your belt.... awesome insight or coincidence

 

[Jon.G]

LOL. Why didn't you change the aux belt as well and the dephaser come to mention it.

 

[RS182-CLIO]

How much of a 'whir' are we talking here, could be the waterpump as thats what it sounds like when it goes.

Lol didnt you post a thread like 2 days ago hoping there would be no whir after some guy fitted your belt.... awesome insight or coincidence

I did yes

Guess I tempted fait !

 

[RS182-CLIO]

Could have disturbed the dephaser perhaps....Why on earth would you not change the Aux kit! Saving money on these sort of things will in the long run end up costing you a fortune when your engine eats itself! lesson learned?

Inexperience of clio owning I guess

Think I should get the aux kit and change the dephaser?
Best place to get these renault ?

What would be best? Change aux kit? If its still there then the dephaser?

Cheers

 

[bmh.01]

What would be best? Change aux kit? If its still there then the dephaser?

Answered your own question there.

 

[JackJack]

To do the dephaser you have to do the cam belt again. Go for aux kit first.

 

[CuppyDean]

Aux belt first then if its not cured then then dephaser time but as mentioned above that will require another cam belt job

 

[RS182-CLIO]

Aux belt first then if its not cured then then dephaser time but as mentioned above that will require another cam belt job

Schoolboy error I guess !
Damn,
Hope its just the aux kit as there was no noise before hand, in all fairness if I hadnt been listening on purpose for it due to past experience I wouldnt have noticed

 

[Fred@BTM]

did you use the pulley locking tool and undo the inlet and exhaust cam pulleys?

 

[RS182-CLIO]

did you use the pulley locking tool and undo the inlet and exhaust cam pulleys?

I honestly have no idea if he did Fred, would he need to remove the timing pulleys at all for the belt? do you think its timung related?

Thanks

 

[scotty2hotty81]

Did he use all three renault tOols? Ask him if he slackened off all the pulleys if he didn't start again! It not if the aux belt looking ok either as if the tensioner is sticking it will throw the belt off and wrap around your cambelt.

 

[montana]

don't want to sound negative but its problems like this which highlight its easier to take it to a specialist who will do it right first time

 

[RS182-CLIO]

Did he use all three renault tOols? Ask him if he slackened off all the pulleys if he didn't start again! It not if the aux belt looking ok either as if the tensioner is sticking it will throw the belt off and wrap around your cambelt.

Yeah il ask,

What is the reason to slacken the pulleys off?
Cheers

 

[Fred@BTM]

to get the cam timing and cambelt tension correct

 

[RS182-CLIO]

to get the cam timing and cambelt tension correct

Excuse my ignorance but why would he need to slacken the cam pulleys to tension?
Is just changing the idlers not ok and retensioning?

 

[CuppyDean]

Excuse my ignorance but why would he need to slacken the cam pulleys to tension?
Is just changing the idlers not ok and retensioning?

No, mate listen to the advice been given especially Freds above ^^^

 

[sideways danny]

Excuse my ignorance but why would he need to slacken the cam pulleys to tension?
Is just changing the idlers not ok and retensioning?

this makes my head hurt. Groundhog day comes to cliosport.

It HAS to be done, it's part of the correct renault procedure

 

[Fred@BTM]

call me and i will gladly explain, i cant be bothered typing it out as ill be here all day!

 

[Cro]

If you were doing it you would soon realise why that it's too hit and miss if you didnt slacken off on the pulleys. Your pulling on a belt that isn't moving and putting pulleys at different positions on the belt. You'd end up with different tensions at different parts of the belt between pulleys,idlers and tensioner

 

[bmh.01]

This is what you are playing with:

Now the cams and crank should be locked and unable to move, the belt is keyed so it cannot move around the pulleys and you are tensioning one side of the belt only. Even with all the will in the world there is no way you can get all the slack on the tensioner side. Hence you slacken the cam pulleys off to allow them to rotate slightly with the belt tensioning to normalise the tension in the belt. If you don't do this then the belt will be uninformly tensioned and this will also cause the timing to move away from correct.

Thats why you need all the tools and need to understand the procedure, no discredit to your mate but I really really fail to see why people (mechs) don't understand this. Unless they roll with the "I know better attitude" which is kept in the same draw as the "it'll be alreet youth do it up". But it really is not rocket science.

 

[RS182-CLIO]

Brilliant post

So if the whirring is coming from there then its un even tension on the belt ?

The noise goes away when the throttle is blipped so need to get it back in to be checked if its that or the aux,

Is there a common tendancy for the belt to slip if there is uneven tension?

 

[RS182-CLIO]

One more quick question.. When the cams are locked in from the back using the tool and the crank pulley pinned, can both the cam pulleys be loosened off without the worry of lossing the timing? I will have to ask what procedure he used, he might have already done this and its just the case of refitting the old aux belt the noise is coming from, apart from the valves crashing into the pistons is there anyway to check the timing far short of re locking the cams and inserting the crank pin? and indeed would that pricedure work?

Cheers

 

[sophiesdad]

You need to lock the cam pulleys with the correct tool , its only for holding the pulleys whilst you unlock/lock them in correct position after tensioning correctly.
Here is an diag of the tool.
Only correct way of checking timing is by using the cam timing tool and crank locking pin ,
does not take long at all.
The pic does not show dephaser , just a reference , im think there is a proper picture on an older thread on here showing the actual tools , and pictures showing tools in use , but you will have to search.

 

[RS182-CLIO]

Thanks,
I will double check thats what he done, sure I seen he had that tool too.

Why is this tool specific to this renault engine?

As all the other locking tools I have see have the same adjustable slider and keep both cams locked in place the same as the renault tool.

Or is this just really the same tool and easier to use as it has pre existing.mounts?

Cheers

 

[CuppyDean]

Thanks,
I will double check thats what he done, sure I seen he had that tool too.

Why is this tool specific to this renault engine?

As all the other locking tools I have see have the same adjustable slider and keep both cams locked in place the same as the renault tool.

Or is this just really the same tool and easier to use as it has pre existing.mounts?

Cheers

If you want the job doing right and correct timing you have to use the genuine renault tools

 

[RS182-CLIO]

Yup,
he used all 3 tools I can confirm.

I will get the aux belt kit changing to see if its that next as he removed the aux belt and inspected it for me and refitted, could be running against small micro grooves that have been made in the past maybe ?

I have also just had one other idea of a possible cause, a continental timing belt was used, are these renowned for noise ? if they aren't as good as renault belts this could cause a slight whine ???


Thanks

 

[sideways danny]

i've used continental belts without issue

 

[RS182-CLIO]

Rules that one out then, cheers

Would an uneven tensioned or over tensioned belt cause the noise?

Ta

 

[Laine_16v]

No!

Once the engine has been cranked or turned over for a few seconds (after a cambelt change) the belt tension is automatically even'd out straight away. HOWEVER the belt should have perfect tension ditribution when the cambelt was fitted anyway, by rotating the whole pulley system with the belt fitted and tensioned prior to finally locking and then torquing the pulleys up.

As for over tensioning belts, the tensioner marks are there to make sure that doesnt happen! (although people will still get it wrong anyway)

 

[Alastair.]

mehhh