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Inspection to determine if mechanic at fault



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  02 Clio 172
Hi all,

Had a cambelt change performed on my clio sport, 3 days after which the engine seized with no noise or warning lights or smoke etc.
The mechanic is claiming failure of big end bearings due to insufficient lubrication, as the engine had an oil leak (which was diagnosed and repaired by them a few days prior to the cambelt change) although I watched the level religiously and ensured it was topped up.

He claims he has taken the sump off and swarf is visible etc.
However experts have told me the bottom pulley may have spun up from not being torqued correctly, along with the risks of incorrect timing / wrong locking tools.
So after spending £1000 repairing my newly bought clio, I am faced with this.
New engine for £650 delivered + £500 fitting, or repair to pretty much equal cost.

I understand the complicated nature of mechanical work but I cant help feeling entirely ripped off after I put my trust in the mechanics knowledge and experience, to be prudent and recommend that i not drive the car if there was risk to the engine.

I suspect the mechanic may be at fault when fitting the cam belt, however how do i go about getting it inspected and confirmed that this is the case?
I asked the mechanic a few days prior to the repairs if he thought the engine sounded healthy, if i should drive it etc and he did not relay any concerns.

Also, if i go down the route of a new engine, £500 seems rather extaustionate considering the circumstances?

Please advise, sick of this. Ive got this gut feeling that they are at fault, the cam belt work just prior is too coincidental and their diagnosis too convenient.
 

R-Sport.

ClioSport Club Member
  Mint 1*2's for sale-
I think you 'should' put this down to experience unless you have the funds & time to challenge him in court-

I may sound out of line here- The trouble you have is that if your going to a magistrate for a small claims then using another independant specialist like JMS is that as a magistrate - why is JMS diagnosis / explanation of faults more credible than the mechanic you chose, also to that ends if you knew JMS were so good in the first place you should have gone there-

The only way you get anywhere is take it main dealer to strip it down- your probably looking ~ £500 to strip it down with an independent vehicle check- only to possibly find out that the belts arent at fault-
Renault main dealer will have superior credibility over an independent if it goes to court- you would need photographic evidence & concrete proof that something wasnt done correctly when the belts were done-

Whilst im not an expert on engines- how are you going to disprove his diagnosis otherwise- I dont know whether some visible or interim check can be done without stripping everything down-

Maybe one of the specialists would like to comment-

Either way - its going to be very difficult to manouver any judge in your favour as it stands-

S
 
  Something Not French
Unfortunately, you might just have to pay for it yourself.

Take the car off him and get it done elsewhere, why give him more money if you suspect he was at fault in the first place?
 
  02 Clio 172
I'm more than prepared to pay for it myself, but i have spent out money with this firm precisely so things like this wouldnt happen. that money is now wasted and i am landed with an even bigger bill. i just want to be confident that theyre not dodging the bullet
 
  182, Williams
hi mate.

i have replaced these belts many times and if the repair is not done to exact procedure inexperenced techs will normally get it wrong.
incorrectly fitted belt tensioners or under tightened crank pullys also cause these belts to fail. check also that the aux drive belt is still intact as they can be sucked behind the crank pully and interfere with the cambelt causing an engine to lock up. this is why the aux drive belts should be changed every 36k according to manufactures guidlines.

you need to get the vehicle inspected though. It seem very coincidental the engine has failed just after a major engine repair.

Also did you see the oil they removed?
 
  Lionel Richie
if you want someone to tear them a new arsehole i'm more than qualified ;) (in a non homosexual way!)
 
  rs clio ph1 172
Sounds like you are convinced the garage has incorrectly fitted your cambelt kit ot tensioner when it maybe that your research on here is causing you to disbelieve something that is not so trivia.

i had my belts changed recently and there is no magic or any special tools required other than the ones that most garages keep.
I mentioned to the garage that done mine about special tools and they looked at me like i was some anorak!
needless to say that they had done many clio 182, 172's and not had engine failure down to incorrect fitting of belts, tensioners, pulleys.
also they use autodata so why is there so many specialists and guys on the forum trying to convince people that these are difficult?
 
  ITB'd MK1
Sounds like you are convinced the garage has incorrectly fitted your cambelt kit ot tensioner when it maybe that your research on here is causing you to disbelieve something that is not so trivia.

i had my belts changed recently and there is no magic or any special tools required other than the ones that most garages keep.
I mentioned to the garage that done mine about special tools and they looked at me like i was some anorak!
needless to say that they had done many clio 182, 172's and not had engine failure down to incorrect fitting of belts, tensioners, pulleys.
also they use autodata so why is there so many specialists and guys on the forum trying to convince people that these are difficult?

they are wrong, Autodata is full of incorrect information, and i'm sorry to say, you've probably had the work done wrong

special tools......
timingtools.jpg


46afbe7c.jpg


4797935e.jpg
 
  330i. E30 Touring.
Sounds like you are convinced the garage has incorrectly fitted your cambelt kit ot tensioner when it maybe that your research on here is causing you to disbelieve something that is not so trivia.

i had my belts changed recently and there is no magic or any special tools required other than the ones that most garages keep.
I mentioned to the garage that done mine about special tools and they looked at me like i was some anorak!
needless to say that they had done many clio 182, 172's and not had engine failure down to incorrect fitting of belts, tensioners, pulleys.
also they use autodata so why is there so many specialists and guys on the forum trying to convince people that these are difficult?

LOL. I'll bet you £100 your timing is out.
 
You don't need special tools to do it. You need special tools to do it properly. Kinda the whole point of the thread.
 
  320d
You don't need special tools to do it. You need special tools to do it properly. Kinda the whole point of the thread.

You also need a competent person to use said tools. I've had a cambelt done badly by so called specialists that actually were using the right tools. All the gear no idea.
 
  rs clio ph1 172
seems to me that specialists refer to these locking tools as 'special' and most garages including renault dealerships just use the the traditional cam locking tools, cam pulley locking tool and crank pin.

I don't see how autodata 2011 is incorrect to the procedure as the instructions are pretty specific as to what needs to be done.

if they are wrong then surely my car would not be running right and lack power which it doesn't.
 
  rs clio ph1 172
Because the garage you spoke to are wrong. Pure and simple.

You need the special locking tool.
there is no such thing as a special locking tool mate! you and every other person on here are been fooled into this bullshit thing. all that tool is a cam sprocket locking tool. nearly all garages use it like it advises in guess what....Autodata!
 
  Nothing at the mo :(
there is no such thing as a special locking tool mate! you and every other person on here are been fooled into this bulls**t thing. all that tool is a cam sprocket locking tool. nearly all garages use it like it advises in guess what....Autodata!

hmmm yes there is... now leave!
 
  Nothing at the mo :(
ok mate bend over backways and enjoy!

Dude just cause a garage says " You dont need any special tools" dont mean there isnt any... they dont have them so did yours the normal cambelt way.. which as budgie said the timing is probably out

Danny has just SHOWN you pics of the special tools.. unless he has now got a qualification in mircosoft paint and made them pics himself, i think its safe to say there ARE special tools
 
  rs clio ph1 172
Dude just cause a garage says " You dont need any special tools" dont mean there isnt any... they dont have them so did yours the normal cambelt way.. which as budgie said the timing is probably out

Danny has just SHOWN you pics of the special tools.. unless he has now got a qualification in mircosoft paint and made them pics himself, i think its safe to say there ARE special tools

mate you are really stupid, i have clearly seen the pics and can verify those are not no 'special tools' and are exactly the same f**king tools used on my car, if you wish to believe they are special then do so, these are standard tools used for locking pulleys and cams and crank. next time read my posts properly before telling me about 'special'!
 
  ITB'd MK1
there is no such thing as a special locking tool mate! you and every other person on here are been fooled into this bullshit thing. all that tool is a cam sprocket locking tool. nearly all garages use it like it advises in guess what....Autodata!

the problem is THEY DON'T use the sprocket tool (which is F4R specific, and genuine renault) , I've fixed issues for dozens of places that have used the incorrect cheap lazer locking bar, and used the wrong torque settings given by autodata. The local engine reconditioners get calls from garages around bedford about these all the time, and they send me round ;)
 
  182, Williams
this this guy fit the belt to begin with.? he sounds mean!!!!!

These tools are specific to renault petrol engines angry dude.
 
  rs clio ph1 172
the problem is THEY DON'T use the sprocket tool (which is F4R specific, and genuine renault) , I've fixed issues for dozens of places that have used the incorrect cheap lazer locking bar, and used the wrong torque settings given by autodata. The local engine reconditioners get calls from garages around bedford about these all the time, and they send me round ;)
please explain what signs would be visible or what you have found with these engines that you have not used the so called 'special tool'?
no need to tar with the same brush if around bedford garages are unable to correctly carry out a cambelt change.
 
  2004 ph2 172
Well, the Renault Made, Renault-Specific tool for Renault F4-series Engines could probably be used on the 2002 Proton Waja.... because it uses a Renault F4P engine. ;)
 
  Nothing at the mo :(
mate you are really stupid, i have clearly seen the pics and can verify those are not no 'special tools' and are exactly the same f**king tools used on my car, if you wish to believe they are special then do so, these are standard tools used for locking pulleys and cams and crank. next time read my posts properly before telling me about 'special'!

Your the stupid one.. everyone knows the answer.. but not you idiot
 
  RB Recaro'd 182 Cup
Your telling me i drove 2 hours to a specialist when a garage down the road had the 'special' tools? Dammit!! :banghead:

I think the specialists on here with years of experience with the F4R know what they are talking about Bling.
 
  Golf GT & A4 Avant
IIRC doens't the RS use different tools to other renault 2.0 engines as well? the renault suplied timing tools are not the same as generic timing tools, nor are pattern part tools as good as the renault ones. if it were so easy and everyone had the basic tools for doing cambelts then there wouldn't be so many threads saying ' timings out / cambelts failed ' etc etc.

I'm suprised 'angry dude' hasn't received points for such ignorant attitude and abuse. lol wish I believed my local garages with such passion.
 
  Golf GT & A4 Avant
seems to me that specialists refer to these locking tools as 'special' and most garages including renault dealerships just use the the traditional cam locking tools, cam pulley locking tool and crank pin.

I don't see how autodata 2011 is incorrect to the procedure as the instructions are pretty specific as to what needs to be done.

if they are wrong then surely my car would not be running right and lack power which it doesn't.

I missed that bit reading it the 1st time round. I didn't lol at this, just shook my head in dis belief. please provide details of the standard timing tools that are all is needed to do it CORRECTLY?

lol at 'TOOL ACADEMY'
 
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FLOL at arguing with arguably the UK's best Renault Clio specialists about cam locking tools. Just PMSL.

 
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