Insurance - need a bit of advice...

[MattT]

Here's what's happened...

I was driving back home from GF's house and was waiting to turn right from the main road onto our road. I was waiting for oncoming traffic to pass - i.e. stationary and indicating to turn right. The oncoming traffic cleared and I began to move off - literally just started moving - approx <1m - when a cyclist has hit me on the drivers side rear panel, just above the wheel.

I don't understand what he was trying to do in overtaking me or what a cyclist was doing in the middle of the road - if I'd been turning left this would be a different story but me turning right?

Regardless, the guy was ok (he's 75 years old tho!) - a little shook up as you'd expect, but not injured. However, my rear panel is quite scratched and dented where his handlebars went in. We exchanged tel numbers etc and luckily there was a witness who saw the whole thing so we got his number also.

What I'd like to know is where do I stand from an insurance POV? People have said if he has house insurance he'll have public liability insurance which will cover him? My insurance company (Tesco) have said this is a complicated case - if he is found liable they are chasing money from an individual rather than another insurance company, I may lose out regardless?

Anyway - any advice appreciated! I've already had 2days off trying to get this lot sorted out.

 

[MattT]

Update: He's now denying it's his fault and saying it's 50/50 at the most. I don't see how I've done anything wrong tho?

 

[cat171]

He sounds like a complete tool tbh, I mean overtaking in the middle of the road while your moving, wtf ?? Any witnesses ??

 

[Shotgunsjay]

id of reversed over the old **nt lol

 

[Shotgunsjay]

youll win the case,

did you have youre indicator on?

if you did theres nothing they can touch you on, you have right of way end of........

 

[Timmay]

bloody cyclists

 

[MattT]

He sounds like a complete tool tbh, I mean overtaking in the middle of the road while your moving, wtf ?? Any witnesses ??

Yeah - luckily there was a witness. Furthermore, he actually went over what happened on the scene and told the cyclist he was at fault.

youll win the case,

did you have youre indicator on?

if you did theres nothing they can touch you on, you have right of way end of........

I was indicating yes, was probably stationary waiting for oncoming traffic to clear for up to 10seconds, sat just to the left of the centre line waiting.

 

[Shotgunsjay]

end of the day a cyclist should never of been on the right hand side of you, if that were the case theyd have cycle lanes in the middle of the road???? its definately 100% his fault.....

 

[mcsp_olif]

i work in road safety for the local council, and it might be found that you dont have a case. cyclists do not have to ride down the left of the road. it is said that you are expected that you look in your wing mirror before performing the manouvre. although if you had your indicater on then it's a different story and the cyclist is supposed to register this and wait for you to turn. obviously i wasn't there and the best thing to do i think is to get a third person statement from the witness. he/she's your best bet if you're going to claim.

 

[MattT]

^^ Yeah that's what I figured.
I don't want things to get ugly tbh - I do kinda feel sorry for the old fella, but at the end of the day he pays or I do, and it wasn't my fault.

Admittedly, the repair estimates I have are more than I expected - but he's now using the "we're pensioner's, we don't have that kind of money" line.
He thinks I'm trying to rip him off by over estimating the price - this couldn't be further from the truth, I just want my car fixed and without losing any value in it.

 

[paul]

feel for you..

 

[MattT]

i work in road safety for the local council, and it might be found that you dont have a case. cyclists do not have to ride down the left of the road. it is said that you are expected that you look in your wing mirror before performing the manouvre. although if you had your indicater on then it's a different story and the cyclist is supposed to register this and wait for you to turn. obviously i wasn't there and the best thing to do i think is to get a third person statement from the witness. he/she's your best bet if you're going to claim.

I am 100% sure I was indicating - I always do.
How do I go about getting a third person statement? Is it something I have to do, or my insurance company?

Thanks for the advice so far guys.

 

[H182]

Didn't know cyclists could use house insurance or anything to cover things like that. If his insurance won't cover it and he can't afford to pay it, would tesco let u make a non fault claim keeping your ncb?

Hope all gets sorted.

 

[MattT]

^^ I doubt it. I'm fully comp and have all the extra legal cover bells and whistles but at the moment it looks like it's pretty much worthless.

The way I see it at the moment is it's a similar situation to if someone who crashed into me in a car - but they didn't have insurance.

 

[_BillG_]

It is a difficult case, if he has contents insurance then that almost certainly will cover him for damage to third party property, which is exactly what this is.

However, unlike if you were hit by another car he is not under any legal obligation to disclose to your who his is insured with. But i would try and talk to him and get this information from him. Dont start threatining court action etc, just explian it will be less agro for him if he tells you who his insurers are, so you can deal with them a not inconvicence him etc. and explin that if his insurers become involved they will ensure your repair estimates are genuine and that you are not ripping him off etc.

If you get his insurance details is will be easier but not straight forward. If you read the Highway Code he "should" not overtake when there is ajunction or someone is signally right, but it does not say "must" not overtake and therefore he has not broken the law by doing so. Equally you are technically supposed to look in your mirror before making a turn to make sure no one has been stupid enough to overtake you. So potentially if this were 2 cars involved there is a very real possibility of a 50/50 settlement where each party takes some responsibilty for the accident.

You need to get a statement from the witness asap. Give his details to your insurers and make them send him a witness staement now, you can ask him to just write a statement but if he misses key pieces of info it may be worthless.

Unlitmatly your insurers and leagal cover people may decide that there is not sufficent gounds to pursue the old boy and give up, but this does not prevent you from personally taking him to small claims court. But even if you witness is prepared to give evidence in court this is still a risk it may not go 100% in your favour, get advice from your solictor (call your legal cover people) as to exactly the reprocussion if this happens.

Also if you have not already done so i would report the accident to the Police, you are required to report accident where people are injured, and although he may be ok at the moment you dont want him having a heart attact and trying to blame the accident. The POlice are ulikley to investigate, but it covers your back, and the last thing you want is points etc. for failing to report an accident.

I was involved in similar collision a few years ago and ended up paying for my repairs myself, I now work for an Insurance Broker and know from an Insurance POV it is not an easy case. Good Luck!

 

[MattT]

Thanks for that info BillG.
I know who his house insurance company is but he refused to give me his policy number - not sure if that's enough info or not. I'm also not sure if I'm the one who should be doing all this chasing or my insurance company?

Also - I reported the accident to the police within 24hrs (the station was closed the day it happened). I have the reference number etc.

Am not sure what to do next to be honest!

 

[_BillG_]

The fact that you have his insurers is a very good start, lack of policy number is not a problem as long as you have his name, address and postcode.

There is 2 ways you can play it, simplest option: Make claim off your car insurance, get car repaired, pay excess. Provide them with his insurers details and witness detials, and leave it to them and you legal cover people to pursue insurers to recover all costs/excess. Risk with doing it this way if that if they fail to make 100% recovery off all repair costs, then claim counts agsinst your policy, you may lose NCB etc.

Difficult option: is to claim direct from his home insurers. This option could take a lot longer (especially if old boy does not co-operate by acknowleging claim), and ultimatly could involve you making a lot of calls and constantly chasing his insurance company to get resolved.

The difficultly is your insurers & legal people will only get involved once they have losses to recover, i.e. once you have actually had you car repaired and they have paid the bill. They will not start chasing him/his insurers before this as for them there is no need to do so. So if you want confimration from his insurers that they will pay to repair your car, before you repair it, you will have to do all the hard work.

Whether you want to claim off you insurance will depend on you personal circumstance age/excess/premium/protected ncb & how much estimate is etc.
However one possible avenue is to make claim off your insurance, let them do all the calling/chasing/treatening of legal proceedings etc. Then in 6/8/10/whatever months time, if they have not made a recovery from his insurers or have made say a 50% recovery, they may give you the option to pay the remaining 50% of your repair costs back to them and "buy back" your NCB to prevent your premium going skyhigh. But i would speak to them 1st, to confirm they will do this, before going down this route.

To get some free advice, check your policy booklet or call your insurers and ask for tel no for legal people, as legal cover sometimes provides a free legal helpline. Might be worth giving them a call and taking through your options.

HTH

 

[Ad]

Matt have you had a quote for the damage?

Id imagine the damage is less than your excess if your with tesco. Which wonderful part of wigan is he from?

 

[MattT]

BillG - Thanks mate, that info is really helpful, thanks for the advice! I'll have to weigh up my options and see what'll work out best - thanks mate.

Ad - I got some quotes done yesterday yeah, went to the place in Orrell you suggested ages ago but apparently the guys have retired? Tried the Quest guy too and he seems sound enough. Also been to Karl Vella - who are Tesco's repair people for the local area. He's from Springfield I believe mate - why do you ask? My excess is less than the estimated cost of repair also.

TBH I'm torn - without getting into specifics the advice/estimates I'm getting are saying a new panel is required (unfortunately it's the biggest panel on the car tho) and some are saying it's repairable. But I don't want a botched job! Obviously a repair is the cheaper option but I'm not sure it's the best. :S

 

[H182]

If your going through insurers might as well get a new panel.

 

[MarkCup]

In my opinion that could go either way with regard to blame.

Technically, the fact that you are indicating means nothing other than you signalling your intention.

Indicating doesn't mean you can then carry out a manouvere without taking further observation - it's just you saying "see this junction here, I intened to turn into it" - you still have an obligation and duty of care to other road users to make sure it is safe to do so before committing to the manouvere.

The fact that he was splitting lanes and going past you when you were clearly indicating means he's a bit of a tool though, and any insurance assessor should be able to see that, but it's far from black and white.

Fingers crossed for you.

 

[Brett]

Which wonderful part of wigan is he from?

What a suprise the guy's from wigan, bloody pie eaters. Hope it gets sorted mate, this is exactly why cyclists shouldnt be on the road without insurance because they'd claim off us if we hit them but we can't claim of them if they hit us, hows that fair :S

 

[MattT]

^^ lol, I'm from Wigan too mate - no offence taken mind.

I've had an independent insurance investigator out in the meantime, had an interview, took photo's of the damage, photos of where it happened etc. Basically, it looks as though I'm going to have to pay out my excess and get the car repaired - then hopefully my insurers can pull their finger out and set about reclaiming the amount (or as much as possible) from the cyclist or his house insurance company. Could be looking at 6months/1year for it all to be sorted and I'm not waiting that long for the repair.

 

[Ad]

BillG - Thanks mate, that info is really helpful, thanks for the advice! I'll have to weigh up my options and see what'll work out best - thanks mate.

Ad - I got some quotes done yesterday yeah, went to the place in Orrell you suggested ages ago but apparently the guys have retired? Tried the Quest guy too and he seems sound enough. Also been to Karl Vella - who are Tesco's repair people for the local area. He's from Springfield I believe mate - why do you ask? My excess is less than the estimated cost of repair also.

TBH I'm torn - without getting into specifics the advice/estimates I'm getting are saying a new panel is required (unfortunately it's the biggest panel on the car tho) and some are saying it's repairable. But I don't want a botched job! Obviously a repair is the cheaper option but I'm not sure it's the best. :S

Just being nosey as to where he is from.

Be careful mate about having a new panel. Id avoid it were possible. Id be amazed if a peddle cycle can do enough damage to warrent a new rear wing? If it is a door then Id take a new one. But rear wings are quite a lot of work and someone who knows what there checking for can always tell when rear wings have been replaced-even the best quality job. The likes of Karl Vella will want to replace it no doubt due to the extra ££. I was gutted when the place shut down in orrell They were getting on a bit though. lol

 

[Ad]

As for insurance its all about if you feel its worth risking you NCB. For me it would be too important to lose them. If I had them protected then Id probably go for repair through my insurance.

 

[MattT]

Ad - Unfortunately I didn't protect my NCB this time - have only just reached 4 this year which is the lowest you can protect, but I chose not to as it was an extra 200quid!
I know what you're saying about the panel - but for all the places I've been to they've all said it's 50/50 whether the panel needs to be replaced or not. Quest (have you heard anything about their work btw Ad?) were definitely keen to repair it rather than replace it.

If I go through my insurance I don't really have a say as to what type of repair they do though right? i.e. repair the existing panel. I guess the comeback I have is they have to get it to a standard I'm happy with - or I reject it.

I'll put some photos up later when I get home - I was surprised myself at the extent of damage, but it's not something I have much experience with.

 

[Ad]

Name is familiar? Where are they based? Higher Ince?

The insurance will just do their thing, but yeah you do get gaurantees. But tbh any decent bodyshop will give you a 3year gauantee and Id tell them you want it A1 before they quote. It gives you the comeback then if its not perfect.

As for you NCB, bear in mind that you will have have 2yrs NCB suspended for the claim. If the insurance company do not recover 100% of their costs you will lose the NCB and have to declare the claim for 3yrs after the incident. So can end up costing you quite a bit.

 

[MattT]

They're based in Orrell - just behind the motorbike place?
Arrrrgh - I'm not sure what to do tbh. I'm damned if I do - damned if I don't.

I'm going to get it repaired ASAP - not sure how yet but I think that will make it easier as it's fixed then and there's none of this "it could cost up to £...." lark. If I go through my insurance, and lose the no claims I'll have to sell up because I wouldn't be prepaired to pay that kind of hike in premium.

What would you do Ad?

 

[H182]

how much would it cost to repair if a new panel isn't needed? Might cost more than your excess but work out cheaper in the long run with higher premiums.

 

[Ad]

Matt get some pics to me and I'll tell you if I would push for a repair or re-panel. It will be easier to mail mate as I cant view photobucket pics on the VPN. email is adam.mitton@alfredmcalpineplc.com

Id think twice before going through the insurance as they always make their money back one way or another especially for smaller amounts.

Its a really tricky to be 100% you will get your money back even though I agree its not your fault. Also whats you excess?

I do know quest now you say, but cant comment on their work.

 

[MattT]

Cheers Ad - email is on the way. The excess on my policy is £400 also.
I'll get some up on here too and hi-light the damage.

You're right - it is tricky, I'm really not sure what to do now at all. Have been advised to wait until liability is confirmed before I get the repair done.

 

[MattT]

Pics of damage:

 

[MattT]

how much would it cost to repair if a new panel isn't needed? Might cost more than your excess but work out cheaper in the long run with higher premiums.

The cost of a new panel is about £300 more expensive than repairing the existing one. Both are considerably higher than my excess however.
Like you said though, it might be cheaper for me to pay out of my own pocket than go the insurance route.

 

[H182]

Bloody hell, thats quite alot of damage for a bike. Good luck getting it all sorted.

 

[kevinhall]

What a plank he was. I am a cyclist and regularly overtake on the outside but you know to take extra care at junctions and definitely never overtake an indicating car cos at the end of the day you are in blind spots/places people don't expect you so it is your responsibility to watch the cars.

Hope you get it sorted. If he thinks your quotes are too high, say you'll go to a garage of his choice for a comparative quote. Otherwise stick to your guns and go the insurance route.

 

[xshexisusannex]

You will win it,

But your insurance company are right that its complicated case.

If it goes all the way to court the court will come up with a repayment for the old dude to make so could take years therefore effecting your no claims.

 

[Alan]

Should've leathered the silly old cvnt at the time!!

I spend a bit of time on the road on my bike and i am very careful when going past moving and parked cars...

Theres no need to be so careless!!

Its people like that who give cyclists a bad name!

 

[Ad]

Matt, replied to your mail.

Prices sound quite high!

 

[MattT]

Ad - Thanks for the reply, good to get another independent opinion on the whole thing. I need to find a decent, local repair place also - Karl Vella doesn't fill me with confidence tbh.

I need a night now to ponder what I do next!

Thanks for the responses guys, bin very useful!

 

[Ad]

Do not use Karl vella!! Cant say why on here, but trust me it isnt good! Also they charge top dollar!