as above:
between the 172 sport and cup??
0-60 time and also what other cars will the sport give a good go at??
between the 172 sport and cup??
0-60 time and also what other cars will the sport give a good go at??
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Is there a massive difference.
- Thread starter _woody172_
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Depends what you call 'massive'?
Paper figures? How the car feels? Or actual gaps on road?
90kg is a massive weight saving and it takes the bhp/ton from 156 to 171, so the Cup will be noticably quicker to the driver (IMHO). On the road, the small advantage might be percieved by some as 'nothing' and so ensues 30 pages of arguing...
Paper figures? How the car feels? Or actual gaps on road?
90kg is a massive weight saving and it takes the bhp/ton from 156 to 171, so the Cup will be noticably quicker to the driver (IMHO). On the road, the small advantage might be percieved by some as 'nothing' and so ensues 30 pages of arguing...
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The difference can depend there are some quick Cups and there are some quick 172's some engine are just more powerful than others due to manurfacturing tolerances and bedding in processess.
Personally I'd say there was very little in it the Cup might feel a bit quicker as theres more noise (less soundproofing) but the difference on adverage is tiny.
2.0 Corsa will be about as quick.
A Williams is about as quick (but thats bound to start a good argument)
The 172 is a quick car 225 TTs are about as quick same for the 330 BMW's
Civic type R's are about as quick but at highers speeds they will pull away due to more power where power to weight doesn't matter as much.
Audi S3.
A lot of big heavy cars even with 3.0 liter engines arn't as quick as they are much heavier.
Personally I'd say there was very little in it the Cup might feel a bit quicker as theres more noise (less soundproofing) but the difference on adverage is tiny.
2.0 Corsa will be about as quick.
A Williams is about as quick (but thats bound to start a good argument)
The 172 is a quick car 225 TTs are about as quick same for the 330 BMW's
Civic type R's are about as quick but at highers speeds they will pull away due to more power where power to weight doesn't matter as much.
Audi S3.
A lot of big heavy cars even with 3.0 liter engines arn't as quick as they are much heavier.
Stands to reason that the Cup is going to be quicker than the 172 in a straight line. However, I've recently had Cup wheels, springs and dampers fitted to my lard-arse edition MK2 172 and I've got to say it does make a massive difference. It's just so much more fun to drive than with the original wheels and suspension. The steering feels far more responsive, puts power down better in tightish corners, far more confidence in the car going into corners quickly and simply more fun to drive. I've never had the change to give a real Cup death round some corners, but i bet with less weight than the mk2 172 and that suspension it's gonna be good
I'd like to see a proper test between the 172Cup & 182Cup. Both are near identical power/weight but how do they compare with their suspensions, and the extra chuckability of the paperweight 172Cup?
Ultimate challenge is 172Cup/182Cup/182Trophy
In perfect comparsion track times with perfect robot drivers I reckon it would be 182Trophy, 172Cup, 182Cup
Ultimate challenge is 172Cup/182Cup/182Trophy
In perfect comparsion track times with perfect robot drivers I reckon it would be 182Trophy, 172Cup, 182Cup
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MarkCup
ClioSport Club Member
^^^ it's been tweaked though...hasn't it?
Hi Ryhs,
I was wondering how much and where did u purchase the 172 cup springs and dampers? I have a mk2 172 and thnking to get the suspension from the cup as i am getting 16" turini
Also how much lower if any is the cup suspension over stock?
I was thinking sticking to stock dampers and just change springs to eibach pro's. what do you think?
Regards,
Kenn.
I was wondering how much and where did u purchase the 172 cup springs and dampers? I have a mk2 172 and thnking to get the suspension from the cup as i am getting 16" turini
Also how much lower if any is the cup suspension over stock?
I was thinking sticking to stock dampers and just change springs to eibach pro's. what do you think?
Regards,
Kenn.
Rhys said:Stands to reason that the Cup is going to be quicker than the 172 in a straight line. However, I've recently had Cup wheels, springs and dampers fitted to my lard-arse edition MK2 172 and I've got to say it does make a massive difference. It's just so much more fun to drive than with the original wheels and suspension. The steering feels far more responsive, puts power down better in tightish corners, far more confidence in the car going into corners quickly and simply more fun to drive. I've never had the change to give a real Cup death round some corners, but i bet with less weight than the mk2 172 and that suspension it's gonna be good
Remapped derv Golf
Personally I don't really see the point in the 182 Cup. 15kg over a full fat cup chassis 182 isn't it? Only £800 cheaper and the full fat is avalaible in inferno and racing blue. whats the point of it?
The 172 Cup is (or should be) a special edition even though they made a few too many (as renault always do)
It's lighter, has different suspension, wheels and comes in a unique colour.
Until the 182 spoilt things ;-)
I'd go for a full fat if I was buying again. If a Cup held its price better then maybe yeah but it doesn't.
The 172 Cup is (or should be) a special edition even though they made a few too many (as renault always do)
It's lighter, has different suspension, wheels and comes in a unique colour.
Until the 182 spoilt things ;-)
I'd go for a full fat if I was buying again. If a Cup held its price better then maybe yeah but it doesn't.
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Ziel Nurburgring
Id be interested to see a 172cup Vs a Trophy, both of them are proper drivers cars.
Ive chased/been chased by a cup around several circuits and they seem easier to drive quickly, where your really at the limit in a 172feltz keeping up/ahead of a cup. Poor old Donkey was close to hanging up his saddle after Oulton.
Ive chased/been chased by a cup around several circuits and they seem easier to drive quickly, where your really at the limit in a 172feltz keeping up/ahead of a cup. Poor old Donkey was close to hanging up his saddle after Oulton.
Nippy white cup
TheJesus said:disagree... Cup all the way... maybe i'm just swayed after seeing Chris 'n' Nics so many times and being out in it... f**k me that thing can shift, handles reet well too and Chris is a terrible driver! :O
Hey cheeky!
I`m in the process of getting the ecu checked...if I can get it sorted it will be much quicker....if....Chris
MKIII 138
the only experience i have is owning a MKII172 53reg (nearly two yrs) and now a 172cup 52reg (nearly 3months).
there are so many things a 172MKII has in terms of gadgets and better interior build.
and comparing a small flame to a raging inferno is some peoples idea of a "noticble difference" for a example my mum couldnt tell the difference between her alba mini system and my musical fidelity + B&W hifi system ?!?
my opinion is that the cup is faster by a good margin, most suprisingly of all upto 60-100 its much quicker and more suprising still over 100 its still pulling fairly quickly and i must add more stable at high speed with much wider track, lower stance, heafty angled rear spoiler and fron splitter.
i do occansionaly miss the hap hazord way i could throw my 172 into corners knowing that even though it was untidy the ESP would sort you out, where as in the cup you have to be tidy.
it has a quicker change of direction, i roughly timed (and by that counted) 60-100 at around 10secs or just under in 5th which when you combine its 0-60 of in mine 6.22 would make 0-100 around about 16.2 but i have the back seats out so i guess im now 105kg`s lighter than a MKII172 so it now feels very silly quick sometimes.
there are so many things a 172MKII has in terms of gadgets and better interior build.
and comparing a small flame to a raging inferno is some peoples idea of a "noticble difference" for a example my mum couldnt tell the difference between her alba mini system and my musical fidelity + B&W hifi system ?!?
my opinion is that the cup is faster by a good margin, most suprisingly of all upto 60-100 its much quicker and more suprising still over 100 its still pulling fairly quickly and i must add more stable at high speed with much wider track, lower stance, heafty angled rear spoiler and fron splitter.
i do occansionaly miss the hap hazord way i could throw my 172 into corners knowing that even though it was untidy the ESP would sort you out, where as in the cup you have to be tidy.
it has a quicker change of direction, i roughly timed (and by that counted) 60-100 at around 10secs or just under in 5th which when you combine its 0-60 of in mine 6.22 would make 0-100 around about 16.2 but i have the back seats out so i guess im now 105kg`s lighter than a MKII172 so it now feels very silly quick sometimes.
MKIII 138
... also would add that removing back seats, spare wheel and fitting turinis would come to 15.5 back seats + 20 spare wheel and kit + 8 kg`s all round alloys compared with stock 172 wheels = 33.5kg`s so iam affraid still nowhere near.
btw ive weighed all of the above accuratley so iam not making that up.
so when you consider that you could add buckets to a 172MKII you still would be pushed to save 50kg`s and if a cup owner removes their backs seats thats 1020 - 15.5k = 1004.5kg` in a car with 170/172 hp.
unless you get a 182cup, firm up the suspension (as peeps on here thought it was a bit squishy although ive not tried one) remove back seats get buckets and lighter wheels i think you would arrive at 1030/1035kg`s but with 10 extra hp.
basically a 172cup with no back seats is gonna be quicker than a 182 imo.
still il be getting a 182 next (2yrs lol) when the newer clio`s are out weighing 1180 with 200hp they will in fact be no faster than the cup until possibly 130mph+ (silly speed)
someone hold a petrol blue one for me
btw ive weighed all of the above accuratley so iam not making that up.
so when you consider that you could add buckets to a 172MKII you still would be pushed to save 50kg`s and if a cup owner removes their backs seats thats 1020 - 15.5k = 1004.5kg` in a car with 170/172 hp.
unless you get a 182cup, firm up the suspension (as peeps on here thought it was a bit squishy although ive not tried one) remove back seats get buckets and lighter wheels i think you would arrive at 1030/1035kg`s but with 10 extra hp.
basically a 172cup with no back seats is gonna be quicker than a 182 imo.
still il be getting a 182 next (2yrs lol) when the newer clio`s are out weighing 1180 with 200hp they will in fact be no faster than the cup until possibly 130mph+ (silly speed)
someone hold a petrol blue one for me
182Cup is 20kg ligher than the 182 depending on what you read. Really - all this talk of stripping this or that is a pretty moot point, as you can strip a lot off all the cars and the 172Cup will still be lighter.
I really fail to see how a 90kg defecit couldnt NOT make the Cup feel quicker than a 172. Thats like adding a fully grown male adult to a Cup and saying it feels just as fast - not likely unless your senses are dulled by years of coke abuse. People say the 182Cup is a waste of time and in some ways I agree, but if you dont care for leather and extra toys that break daily, the 182Cup makes a lot of sense over a 182, especially if you value every kg. I notice my car feels slower carrying a full tank of fuel, so I know a 182 would feel sliiiiiiightly less nippy to me in any given situation. Of all the models, the 182 is the best all rounder though and is basically as fast as both the 172Cup and 182Cup in real terms.
172Cup for the ultimate paperweight road eating Clio followed by Trophy - 182 for the best all rounder - 182Cup in between?
I really fail to see how a 90kg defecit couldnt NOT make the Cup feel quicker than a 172. Thats like adding a fully grown male adult to a Cup and saying it feels just as fast - not likely unless your senses are dulled by years of coke abuse. People say the 182Cup is a waste of time and in some ways I agree, but if you dont care for leather and extra toys that break daily, the 182Cup makes a lot of sense over a 182, especially if you value every kg. I notice my car feels slower carrying a full tank of fuel, so I know a 182 would feel sliiiiiiightly less nippy to me in any given situation. Of all the models, the 182 is the best all rounder though and is basically as fast as both the 172Cup and 182Cup in real terms.
172Cup for the ultimate paperweight road eating Clio followed by Trophy - 182 for the best all rounder - 182Cup in between?
k3nnis said:Hi Ryhs,
I was wondering how much and where did u purchase the 172 cup springs and dampers? I have a mk2 172 and thnking to get the suspension from the cup as i am getting 16" turini
Also how much lower if any is the cup suspension over stock?
I was thinking sticking to stock dampers and just change springs to eibach pro's. what do you think?
Regards,
Kenn.
I think I paid £60 including delivery from someone on Cliosport's 'Other For Sale' forum. About 1/2 the price of a set of aftermarket springs, and this way i've got springs and dampers that were designed to go together. It's also retained a very nice factory ride - I've used aftermarket springs on previous cars and got fed up quickly with the harsh ride. I certainly don't regret fitting them anyway.
It's a little lower than the original set up, but not much. Take a look at some pictures of 172 Cups ride heights in the media section. It looks exactly the same as that.
Hi Rhys,
Thanks. Hmm from the pictures i can't really tell the diff in ride height between full fat 172 mk2 and 172 mk2 cup. Maybe its just my eyes
I can't find the 172 cup shocks and springs, i was just gonna go eibach pro springs+ use existing shocks. Hopefully its a good combo?
p.s. actually i think the ride at the moment with stock shocks+springs is already pretty stiff.....
Regards,
Kenn.
Thanks. Hmm from the pictures i can't really tell the diff in ride height between full fat 172 mk2 and 172 mk2 cup. Maybe its just my eyes
I can't find the 172 cup shocks and springs, i was just gonna go eibach pro springs+ use existing shocks. Hopefully its a good combo?
p.s. actually i think the ride at the moment with stock shocks+springs is already pretty stiff.....
Regards,
Kenn.
You cannot tell the difference height wise the full fat has 10mm tolerance on the suspension from its normal height . The Cup has 5mm tolerance up and down and the Cup is 3mm lower so you could at the extrem of suspensions have a full fat 12mm lower than a cup if the full fat was down on its minimum tolerance and the Cup on its top tolerance.
If you use the car for road use the springs alone is a good swop if you want more adjustablity then get shocks as well as they make the car handle so much better for track work.
If you use the car for road use the springs alone is a good swop if you want more adjustablity then get shocks as well as they make the car handle so much better for track work.
i have a 172 that i brought of my mate who has a 182 with cup pack. his is a slight bit quicker than mine on a straight. betwen us we can beat boxter turbo, bmw 330, subaru wrx old shape, astra turbo, williams, n my mate can piss on a type r (but i havent tried yet) and plenty more fast cars. My mates 182 will beat the 172 cup. but then again that cud b down to t driver.
MKIII 138
Rich0404 said:
sorry unless your mates is tuned up i doubt it will "beat" a cup, the reason i doubt your claims is that youve suggested a 172 can beat a "boxter turbo" a.) whats a boxter ? and b.) if you mean boxster and someone has a turbo charged one i.e base spec 217hp + 40 for a light pressure turbo then your saying a 172 can be a 257bhp boxster rwd turbo and there quite light the boxster relative to audi tt quattro`s and the like.
the final comment il make on this is a 172cup as Roy keep stating in a very balanced manner considering he owns a 182cup that a 172cup has a huge 90kilo weigh advantage, the lighter the car the bigger small weight difference`s mean, just look at bikes as an example.
as i said my bro`s 190hp/320lbft vrs pulls slowly past a 182 at high spedd (its a fekin quick diesel) yet my old 172 had a good engine and was quick (james will confirm as he now owns it) and his fabia past that also above 100
now i have the cup i pull 2 lenghs 100 3 lenghs at 110 etc..
so 90kilo`s lighter than a 172 and 6-8kg of unprung weigh advantage (which does make a diffo as the reason my he found it hard to pass my 172 more so than the 182 i belive was die to highly lowered suspension lower to ground cooler air + lighter alloy wheels)
its built like crap, and it goes like stink.
Megane Mk4
I used to own a Mk1 172 and now I own a 182....
I did notice lots of difference between the 2 cars and now I still feel the 172 had the edge from the standstill point when it came to the quickness of the 62mph sprint, dont get me wrong, the 182 excells in a lot of things, but the 172 felt as though it chewed the tarmac quicker. The 182 however feels more "placed" on the road and to be honest If I took corners in the 172 like I do now in the 182, I'd have lost the back end for sure
I do know however that when I did have the 172, I did go head-to-head with a Cup 172 once and the guy driving did have the edge on me but it wasnt enough to leave me behind too much! lol)
All the sport models have their own unique personalities I guess. but I think a lot of the time most of the driveability comes down to the way the driver handles it.
I did notice lots of difference between the 2 cars and now I still feel the 172 had the edge from the standstill point when it came to the quickness of the 62mph sprint, dont get me wrong, the 182 excells in a lot of things, but the 172 felt as though it chewed the tarmac quicker. The 182 however feels more "placed" on the road and to be honest If I took corners in the 172 like I do now in the 182, I'd have lost the back end for sure
I do know however that when I did have the 172, I did go head-to-head with a Cup 172 once and the guy driving did have the edge on me but it wasnt enough to leave me behind too much! lol)
All the sport models have their own unique personalities I guess. but I think a lot of the time most of the driveability comes down to the way the driver handles it.
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Chris n`nic said:Hey cheeky!
Chris
hehe. i'd liked to have had a do whilst i had the extra revs from the 2 live tuning ECU, see how it compared, only other Clio it had a direct comparison was a 182. take it to Wayne and get it mapped properly mate, you know it makes sense
rite just 2 comfirm my point. i was in my mates car 2nite n we had a race with an 03plate 172cup and we beat it. fair enought it werent by alot but we did. all my mate has is an k and n induction kit.
i am not trying 2 be funny but when the 182 has the traction control on i can beat it just in my 172, but then when he takes it off he can pull away from me. it is like it is a different car all together.
he hasnt lost 2 a 172 cup yet, he was going 2 by 1. then had a race with a 182 n lost when he was on a test drive.(private sale)
my mate can drive n he said he liked the 172 but the 182 without traction felt just that bit better.
he hasnt raced a 182 cup yet though.
so in conclusion its all down to the driver at the end of the day. because the only reason he mite be beating them is because he is a very good driver.
i am not trying 2 be funny but when the 182 has the traction control on i can beat it just in my 172, but then when he takes it off he can pull away from me. it is like it is a different car all together.
he hasnt lost 2 a 172 cup yet, he was going 2 by 1. then had a race with a 182 n lost when he was on a test drive.(private sale)
my mate can drive n he said he liked the 172 but the 182 without traction felt just that bit better.
he hasnt raced a 182 cup yet though.
so in conclusion its all down to the driver at the end of the day. because the only reason he mite be beating them is because he is a very good driver.
Remapped derv Golf
It's proberbly down to some having better cast inlets than others. Some cars are down on bhp due to badly cast ones.
tiTTy & SV650
its never gonna be a fair comparison really is it, the other car may have an open induction kit slowing it down, driver might not be giving it 100%, engine may still be tight, might be bouncing off the lower rev limiter i.e. not warmed up.
Boxster Turbo? did they do one? A basic boxster u might have but Boxster S will hump u, problem is a lot of people who buy nice cars do so cause they can afford to but aint got a clue how to drive em. Piss on a CTR, no.... very even till high speeds, can gain some on them in the bends though. WRX yup I have pissed on one but the newer ones have a power hike so it'd be a different story. bmw 330? petrol or diesel? in the twisties fair enough but never gonna beat one in a straight line except maybe at upto 60.
Boxster Turbo? did they do one? A basic boxster u might have but Boxster S will hump u, problem is a lot of people who buy nice cars do so cause they can afford to but aint got a clue how to drive em. Piss on a CTR, no.... very even till high speeds, can gain some on them in the bends though. WRX yup I have pissed on one but the newer ones have a power hike so it'd be a different story. bmw 330? petrol or diesel? in the twisties fair enough but never gonna beat one in a straight line except maybe at upto 60.
MKIII 138
Rich0404 said:
my god ! knowone is going to belive you are they ! lol im not going to argue though, you can live in ignorance a badly driven car i.e 182.172cup boxter turbo << lol lol lol.. sorry il just pause a minute imagine rich0404 saying "boxter turbo" in a really slow dumb northern accent Rolf (iam northern btw not sterotyping)
your clearly making all this up and spouting about things you dont have a clue about.
anyway`s ive layed down the weight difference at 98 kilo`s including turinis saving over 182 alloys and 172 alloys 8 of which is unprung, if 10hp is gonna make a 182 pass a cup when the 182 also has two people in then im affriad the cup is knackered or has a crap engine from factory or the person cant drive.. not that you actually "raced" one your making this up.
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