Is there a massive difference.

[MarkM]

172cup, 172, 182, 182cup.

Am I missing something or arent they all pretty much the same car, ie a clio with the F7R engine in. Granted there is a bit less weight a bit more power but I do not think they will feel that much differnece on the road.

For the 172 cup vs the 172mkII argument you may notice a difference on a cold icy winter morning when the 172 cup without driver aids let go and raps itself round a tree.

Yes I am a pussy and the cup is the real drivers car etc. etc. but unfortunatley we are not all racing drivers able to push 100% out of our cars every time we go for a drive.

 

[Munson]

Thats very true (apart from the 172Cup thing which I dispute), but the people who say these things still seem to spend money on exhausts and induction kits

 

[MarkM]

Yeah since I had my exhaust I reckon I gained at least 10bhp. :clown:

Seriously though the exhaust was just for noise and cosmetic reasons although my leda coilovers will hopefully be a true performance mod. Other then that mars bar I didnt eat for my breakfast this morning saved me about 50g car felt proper quick!

 

[Neil82]

172cup, 172, 182, 182cup.

Am I missing something or arent they all pretty much the same car, ie a clio with the F7R engine in. Granted there is a bit less weight a bit more power but I do not think they will feel that much differnece on the road.

For the 172 cup vs the 172mkII argument you may notice a difference on a cold icy winter morning when the 172 cup without driver aids let go and raps itself round a tree.

Yes I am a pussy and the cup is the real drivers car etc. etc. but unfortunatley we are not all racing drivers able to push 100% out of our cars every time we go for a drive.

You think ABS/ESP helps you on ice? lol

 

[Munson]

Yeah since I had my exhaust I reckon I gained at least 10bhp. :clown:

Seriously though the exhaust was just for noise and cosmetic reasons although my leda coilovers will hopefully be a true performance mod. Other then that mars bar I didnt eat for my breakfast this morning saved me about 50g car felt proper quick!

50g or 90kg?

 

[TheJesus]

... the MK1 Clio's use the F7 series engine... by MK1 I mean a MK1, and not what CS moron's commonly assume is a MK1 (which is actually a MK2 phase 1... remember the PHASE people...).

The new mince engine is the F4 series, better standard, just not as tunable.

 

[MarkM]

You think ABS/ESP helps you on ice? lol

Why wouldnt they?? I am not talking about an ice rink but the patchy conditions that you get on the road. Do not know how fast the ABS reacts but it would be an awful lot faster then you.

The ESP also would be better then the majority of drivers obviously within reason you can not drive at a corner any speed wet dry or ice and expect the car to save you some common sense is also required.

 

[Swervin_Mervin]

ABS is not good on ice AT ALL! Most if not all are too sensitive under those conditions and will be of no use to you.

ESP would not save you on ice if you were going too fast.

 

[MarkM]

... the MK1 Clio's use the F7 series engine... by MK1 I mean a MK1, and not what CS moron's commonly assume is a MK1 (which is actually a MK2 phase 1... remember the PHASE people...).

The new mince engine is the F4 series, better standard, just not as tunable.

Your right I am a moron.

Sorry that I did not get all that information correct I think everyone knew what I meant though.

I will try harder next time. Perhaps they could have a forum devoted to the more knowledgeable members who give a s**t whether a post is 100% correct or not. :clown:

 

[Swervin_Mervin]

Yes they should.

 

[Phill1978]

ABS is not good on ice AT ALL! Most if not all are too sensitive under those conditions and will be of no use to you.

ESP would not save you on ice if you were going too fast.

so very true, hence the reason ESP, TC is switchable on almost every car with a sporting intent.

Yeah since I had my exhaust I reckon I gained at least 10bhp.

Seriously though the exhaust was just for noise and cosmetic reasons although my leda coilovers will hopefully be a true performance mod. Other then that mars bar I didnt eat for my breakfast this morning saved me about 50g car felt proper quick!



50g or 90kg?

or 98kg with 8 hp gain from unsprung weight of wheels.

 

[MarkM]

Quote from carpages.co.uk

"The road safety benefits of ESP are increasingly being recognised by road safety professionals and industry. In a recent presentation to UK fleet managers, Matthew Avery, Crash Research manager at Thatcham - one of the world’s leading automotive research and technology centres - said that accident rates were slashed when cars were fitted with ESP. "ESP is an absolute lifesaver," said Mr Avery. "I really recommend it because research from Japan, USA and Sweden has all shown that accident rates reduce by over 30% on cars fitted with ESP." To conclude, Mr Avery gave the audience this advice: "When choosing cars for your fleets, choose vehicles with five stars in the Euro NCAP crash tests, seats with a "GOOD" rating in the Thatcham whiplash tests and ESP fitted as standard.""

I suppose you guys know best.

I know ice isnt mentioned but if it makes my point less controversial change ice in my original post to slippery conditions

Heres the link if any of you cup drivers are interested.
http://www.carpages.co.uk/news/esp-03-08-05.asp?switched=on&echo=921751526

 

[Swervin_Mervin]

Given most people that drive are retards I imagine ESP is a benefit. However, for those that can drive, it's less of a necessity. And it's still won't work in snow/ice.

 

[MarkM]

Given most people that drive are retards I imagine ESP is a benefit.

Thats why they wouldnt let me have a cup. I didnt pass the r****d test when I went to pick it up.

To anyone who is good enough to drive a cup :hail:

 

[Swervin_Mervin]

It's quite simple. Drive too fast for the conditions and you'll fall off. ESP handily gets round this for most people. If anything I'd say it encourages people to drive faster in certain conditions than they should do, which is not a good thing.

 

[MarkM]

It's quite simple. Drive too fast for the conditions and you'll fall off. ESP handily gets round this for most people. If anything I'd say it encourages people to drive faster in certain conditions than they should do, which is not a good thing.

:banghead:

I direct you back to the comments made by the Crash Research expert.

 

[TheJesus]

Quote from carpages.co.uk

"The road safety benefits of ESP are increasingly being recognised by road safety professionals and industry. In a recent presentation to UK fleet managers, Matthew Avery, Crash Research manager at Thatcham - one of the world’s leading automotive research and technology centres - said that accident rates were slashed when cars were fitted with ESP. "ESP is an absolute lifesaver," said Mr Avery. "I really recommend it because research from Japan, USA and Sweden has all shown that accident rates reduce by over 30% on cars fitted with ESP." To conclude, Mr Avery gave the audience this advice: "When choosing cars for your fleets, choose vehicles with five stars in the Euro NCAP crash tests, seats with a "GOOD" rating in the Thatcham whiplash tests and ESP fitted as standard.""

I suppose you guys know best.

I know ice isnt mentioned but if it makes my point less controversial change ice in my original post to slippery conditions

Heres the link if any of you cup drivers are interested.
http://www.carpages.co.uk/news/esp-03-08-05.asp?switched=on&echo=921751526

what a load of cack, how can they say these decrease in crashes can be attributed to ESP!? It could be higher standard in pass rates for new drivers, global warming meaning we get less ice, car being made to safer better standards (hence them all looking like bubbles and having 4 star NCAP ratings). ESP just stops you putting power down in the bends, my last car had it and in those situations you do get the car out of shape ESP will kill you rather than save you. Also, aren't NCAP tests based around hitting pedestrians at 30mph?

Mark, my previous comments were not aimed at you specifically, as 90% of people on here think a MK1 clio is a 172 phase 1... lol

 

[Swervin_Mervin]

And? Most drivers are retarded dickheads. I'm not surprised it cuts accidents. The fact it's there though may lead people to become more blase about how they drive in the conditions at the time. That is not good, regardless of whether accident rates are slashed.

 

[MarkM]

Ok this will be my last post on this.

To TheJesus and Swervin. As I said before you guys obviously know best even against the might of global research done by the worlds experts.

To Swervin surely by your reasoning accidents should have increased with ESP not decreased you are contradicting yourself. It is not good to decrease accidents WTF?

 

[Munson]

In my experience of ESP in my Clio, it takes a slight edge off your driving enthusiasm and tames things down a bit, but if you cook it too hard in icy conditions, I cant see it's going to stop you falling off the road.

Personally the only time my ESP is switched on is for the time it takes my hand to move from the key to the button and switch it off.

 

[Munson]

Ok this will be my last post on this.

To TheJesus and Swervin. As I said before you guys obviously know best even against the might of global research done by the worlds experts.

To Swervin surely by your reasoning accidents should have increased with ESP not decreased you are contradicting yourself. It is not good to decrease accidents WTF?

Not being funny mate, but the might of global research has proven a lot of things, allegedly

 

[Swervin_Mervin]

Why should they increase? ESP is saving them. I'm merely stating that more and more drivers will be blase about how they are driving in the conditions at the time.

 

[Munson]

Why should they increase? ESP is saving them. I'm merely stating that more and more drivers will be blase about how they are driving in the conditions at the time.

I agree, and the world is breeding a generation of drivers who think that all they have to do is stay at the speed limits and they are safe.

"Well I've got ABS and ESP and big comfy chairs, I wasnt speeding" :nono:

 

[Swervin_Mervin]

Exactly. The kind of numbnuts that will flash you if you ever dare to overtake someone, even if you do it below the speed limit and in a well sighted spot.

It's a worrying trend.

 

[Phill1978]

Exactly. The kind of numbnuts that will flash you if you ever dare to overtake someone, even if you do it below the speed limit and in a well sighted spot.

It's a worrying trend.

agreed. modern day life is trying to sap away your freedom and control, esp is just another granny to get in the way although is usefull for inexperienced drivers and for cars that need it cos there designed badly.

funny how many people que down the same road to get home from work everyday for 30-40mins when they could drive a further 5miles home but at a greater speed on an unusual route, people are drones, there like sheep there all bleating on about safety this and safety that, things in life go wrong for gods sake !
hope we never get invaded in this country as we will all fall over like babies crying for help.

 

[Clart]

rs1's are most fun

 

[MarkM]

Ok this will be my last post on this.
QUOTE]

What a liar I am ^^^.

Cant let this lie sorry.

Munson and Swervin I can not believe how good you both are. I bet you would give Schumacher a run for his money.

Scenario for you. Driving along at a steady 40mph slippery conditions (not ice!!!!), speed limit for the road, a child steps out from behind some parked cars you hit the brakes.

ABS equipped wheels do not lock so you can still steer round the child.
No ABS wheels lock, unless your Munson or Swervin of course who modulate the brakes like a pro racing driver, no steering straight on into the child.

There are so many situations especially with all the r****d drivers about where ESP and ABS modern electronic systems can save an accident that unfortunately most are not capable of doing, i am sorry to say you included.

Dont believe the bullshit your right. But the bullshit unfortunately is coming from you.

 

[Swervin_Mervin]

Did I say ABS was bad? ABS is actually very good in most scenarios, but not all.

And who is to say that just because you are adhereing to the limit you aren't going too fast for the conditions?

I am genuinely intrigued to hear a situation where ESP will save mine or someone else's life when equipped to my car.

 

[TheJesus]

Ok this will be my last post on this.
QUOTE]

What a liar I am ^^^.

Cant let this lie sorry.

Munson and Swervin I can not believe how good you both are. I bet you would give Schumacher a run for his money.

Scenario for you. Driving along at a steady 40mph slippery conditions (not ice!!!!), speed limit for the road, a child steps out from behind some parked cars you hit the brakes.

ABS equipped wheels do not lock so you can still steer round the child.
No ABS wheels lock, unless your Munson or Swervin of course who modulate the brakes like a pro racing driver, no steering straight on into the child.

There are so many situations especially with all the r****d drivers about where ESP and ABS modern electronic systems can save an accident that unfortunately most are not capable of doing, i am sorry to say you included.

Dont believe the bullsh*t your right. But the bullsh*t unfortunately is coming from you.

PMSL, class scenario, if I was a stupid as you I wouldn't bother getting out of bed in the morning

you seriously think you need to slam the brakes on and make them lock to stop fast? ABS doesn't make you stop quicker, just stops the brakes locking if you have no control over your braking, but in ice the pedal will just hit the floor just like a non ABS car if you slam on... so what's your point?

 

[TheJesus]

ESP and ABS are to make drivers 'feel' safe, bit like airbags, they are designed to stop idiots that dont wear seatbelts going through the windscreen...

 

[MarkM]

PMSL, class scenario, if I was a stupid as you I wouldn't bother getting out of bed in the morning

you seriously think you need to slam the brakes on and make them lock to stop fast? ABS doesn't make you stop quicker, just stops the brakes locking if you have no control over your braking, but in ice the pedal will just hit the floor just like a non ABS car if you slam on... so what's your point?

Who said I get out of bed in the morning?!

I just spend all day on cliosport hoping that one day I will be knowledgeable enough to be allowed on the road.

Your point at the end is exactly what I said anti lock brakes stop the wheels from locking allowing you to avoid the obstacle. Who said anything about stopping quicker when you lock your wheels I was making a reference to loss of steering. My reference to ice was a joke from my earlier post that everyone jumped on.

Oh well back to bed.

 

[TheJesus]

think you missed my point, you HAVE to slam on to make the brakes lock... it's not hard to brake quickly without locking the brakes. the brakes are SHITE on my car and non ABS, yet when some c**t in an Elise brake tested my car on track in the wet it slowed down without locking up... you have to give it some serious stick to lock them... it's not a case of being the best driver in the world etc, it's basic common sense that I don't suppose a driving instructor can teach. maybe your completely right, as I have clearly over estimated the average level of driving in this country lol.

... so in conclusion, as long as you have some basic driving skills ABS isn't going to make a blind bit of difference, it will just allow the unskilled/un coordinated driver to slam on till his or her hearts content... in relation to the original posters question get the Cup, it has character as well, something the 1*2's really lack (bar Trophy, they look ace)

 

[Neil82]

rs1's are most fun

Rs1's are the worst handling.

 

[KDF]

One of these days one of these threads isnt going to turn into a slagging match.

 

[MarkM]

Jesus lets not resort to insults I am sure neither of us is stupid.

This thread is losing its way. All drivers have different levels of competence most people in an emergency hit the middle pedal hard simple as that if you dont far play.

Anyway we all have different opinions it would be boring if we didnt. My tea is ready so before the missus starts shouting at me Keep preaching the word brother.