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ITB's, Turbo'd or SC'd?



M

M19TNR

Ok, so we've had the discussion about turning my 182 into a race car, and it came to the conclusion that it was either make a track day car, or down class into say Class C racing.

I spoke to my mate about this, who I was going to race with, and he was adamant he wanted to race in Class A an that was that.
So I told him unfortunately he'd have to find someone else to race with then as I didn't want to put a load of money into a lost cause, and he's decided to race with someone from work. Which good luck to him.

Anyways, If he had said okey, the clio would have gone and we'd have bought something smaller engine wise. But as he said no, I'm going to turn mine into a track day car. Which I think is the better decision all round.

The thing I'm having trouble with is how to go about it.

The way I see it is 3 options. Throttle bodies, turbo or supercharge!

The car I have now (this bits just for you Gally ;)) is a Turbo'd 250bhp Corsa D. Something I'm used to tuning and an area I'm comfortable in. But I think I'd like to gain knowledge in other areas of tuning.

Supercharging and throttle bodies will be completely new to me and would be a venture into the unknown! But something id like the challenge in.

It will be stripped, caged, stiffened and tuned over the time i have this car and I hope to take it to a point where I'd run out of ideas!

So, question time....

Which method would you choose for a track car?

I'm leaning towards ITB's, would this be a silly option considering the money I'm putting towards it compared to the other two?

Am I best sticking to what I know and turbo'ing it?

Is there any benefits I've overlooked to supercharging it, over the other two?

Any information or spec lists you'd go for are very well recieved!

Thanks :)
 
S

Sam@NP

  Lotus Elise
What race championship were you looking at doing?

Id go for, Suspension, brakes, wheels and tyres, cage then ITBs and cams in that order. Power should be the last thing to worry about and you dont need much more then 200bhp on track in a clio anyway.
 
M

M19TNR

Sam@BTM said:
What race championship were you looking at doing?

Id go for, Suspension, brakes, wheels and tyres, cage then ITBs and cams in that order. Power should be the last thing to worry about and you dont need much more then 200bhp on track in a clio anyway.
Click to expand...
It was the CSCC Tin Tops

The only variation I was going to do on that was brakes first tbh, but other than that, I had the same ideas tbh :)

I've heard alot of people saying leave the power, but I just WANT to do it really, rather than need to do it :)
 
C

Chip-mk1

  182/RS2/ Turbo/Mk1
martinlird said:
The only variation I was going to do on that was brakes first tbh, but other than that, I had the same ideas tbh :)

I've heard alot of people saying leave the power, but I just WANT to do it really, rather than need to do it :)
Click to expand...



Dont go much past 200bhp without a diff, or it just gets frustrating to drive as it lights one wheel up out of every bend unless you dont use the power you have.
 
Cup_Phil

Cup_Phil

Sam@BTM said:
What race championship were you looking at doing?

Id go for, Suspension, brakes, wheels and tyres, cage then ITBs and cams in that order. Power should be the last thing to worry about and you dont need much more then 200bhp on track in a clio anyway.
Click to expand...

Exactly this

I've stripped my cup out - lost over 100kg of weight. That makes a huge difference
Then brakes, suspension, cage - felt like a different car and was significantly quicker than any other clio on track
Now I've fitted ITB's and standalone management
With 30bhp extra it should be more than enough for track days

End of this summer I'm going to fit cams and an LSD - job done :D
 
Cup_Phil

Cup_Phil

Chip-mk1 said:
Dont go much past 200bhp without a diff, or it just gets frustrating to drive as it lights one wheel up out of every bend unless you dont use the power you have.
Click to expand...

That's why I stopped at the ITB's - taking it out for a play it's very easy to light a wheel up coming out of corners.
Cams will go in with an LSD end of this year for 210-220 bhp
 
Bren Rogers

Bren Rogers

  Sunflower Ph1 172
Keep it N/A for track. Only money I'd spend on the engine would be a complete rebuild, so you basically have a fresh new engine.
 
M

M19TNR

Ahhh hummm...

So what diff do people mainly use? I have a Quaiffe on the Corsa and really rate that, do they make one for the 182 & is it any good?

What kind of power am I looking at from fully Tuning using standalone an ITB's?
 
Cup_Phil

Cup_Phil

If you keep your standard internals, fit throttle bodies and a standalone - get a good map you'll be looking at 200-205bhp
With cams you'll get 215bhp

With modded internals you can push up to 240bhp
But as said 200bhp will spin the front wheels up and give you more power than you can 'use' coming out of corners anyway - so it's a big jump in cash to go beyond 200bhp. Gripper or Quaiffe diff + cams + another remap comes to as much as the ITB's and standalone cost again! lol
 
C

Chip-mk1

  182/RS2/ Turbo/Mk1
martinlird said:
Ahhh hummm...

So what diff do people mainly use? I have a Quaiffe on the Corsa and really rate that, do they make one for the 182 & is it any good?
Click to expand...
Yes they do, but its double the price of the vauxhall ones.

What kind of power am I looking at from fully Tuning using standalone an ITB's?
Click to expand...
What is your budget?
 
S

Sam@NP

  Lotus Elise
Around the 200 mark.

Quaiffe LSD is good Tony and Jay race with one, gripper is good too but much more aggressive.
 
Sir_Dave

Sir_Dave

ClioSport Trader
Sam@BTM said:
cool input Dave ;)
Click to expand...

I try ...

Seriously though, unless you are completely minted & have more money than sense, i see absolutely no point spending 3 grand on fitting ITB's to a clio. Do some track days, see what is wrong with the car, then spend money on what you want to improve imho.

Want less understeer/more oversteer = fit rear ARB, more front camber
Want a higer rev limit = get a remap
Want faster = get it serviced
Want to feel faster = strip it, fit an exhaust
Want to brake better = remove fogs/arch liners/fit RC5's
Want more grip = R888's

Want much faster = buy a car thats quick in the 1st place.
 
Gally

Gally

Formerly Mashed up egg in a cup
ClioSport Club Member
A well driven Clio would catch a ITB's Clio round a track anyway.

Tuition > All.

N/A > All.
 
M

M19TNR

When I said about ITB's and standalone I'm talking fully tuned internals too. So 250 on those possible?

The diff for my Corsa was £800?! So we're talking £1600ish for a diff?

My budget pretty much depends on how long I keep the car, I can start off with around a £5k lump. So was looking at doing suspension, brakes, cage and interior. Then I'll have around £2.5-3k every 5-6 months to spend on it :)

Probably looking at keeping it for a few years, so probably overall...£15-20kish.
 
M

M19TNR

Sir_Dave said:
Want much faster = buy a car thats quick in the 1st place.
Click to expand...
With this in mind I was thinking of an Evo VI before buying the clio, but I decided I wanted a car that was alot of fun to drive and I could really dive into the engine work. Hence tuning the clio.
 
C

Chip-mk1

  182/RS2/ Turbo/Mk1
martinlird said:
When I said about ITB's and standalone I'm talking fully tuned internals too. So 250 on those possible?
Click to expand...
250 is a massive ask, im not saying it isnt possible, but I think it is going to be a LOT more expensive than you think.

If you want that sort of power, just buy Jack from MWM's clio and put his engine in yours, 258bhp straight away and cheap to maintain as its built with mainly standard parts (standard 172 bottom end, standard 197 head etc)

The diff for my Corsa was £800?! So we're talking £1600ish for a diff?
Click to expand...

Over a grand for the clio one by the time its fitted to the crown wheel etc.
God knows why you paid 800 on the vauxhall though, I pay 500 for the same thing!


My budget pretty much depends on how long I keep the car, I can start off with around a £5k lump. So was looking at doing suspension, brakes, cage and interior. Then I'll have around £2.5-3k every 5-6 months to spend on it :)

Probably looking at keeping it for a few years, so probably overall...£15-20kish.
Click to expand...

I spend at least 1k a month on trackdays anyway, dont forget to knock that off if that is your total budget.
 
N

Nick172Cup

For all that money you'll be spending I wouldnt bother even touching the 182 and just buying a 'ready to race' car and bloody race the thing! In my experience trackdays are great for the first couple of years tops with the same car then gets incrediby boring, with that budget you could have a hell of a good time racing.
 
G

Goodj

  Listerine & Poledo
Just get a different vehicle?

Probably get a used Formula Ford for the kind of money you're talking about and at least then you'll know that the playing field is as level as it can be.
 
RDH

RDH

ClioSport Club Member
Supercharge it, and then sell it for a massive loss 3 months later like everybody else.
 
B

Brett

  320d
I'd probably go for ITB's.

Revels and Dave make a good point but he's said he wants to do it and its his money so fair enough.
 
Cup_Phil

Cup_Phil

Sir_Dave said:
I try ...

Seriously though, unless you are completely minted & have more money than sense, i see absolutely no point spending 3 grand on fitting ITB's to a clio. Do some track days, see what is wrong with the car, then spend money on what you want to improve imho.

Want less understeer/more oversteer = fit rear ARB, more front camber
Want a higer rev limit = get a remap
Want faster = get it serviced
Want to feel faster = strip it, fit an exhaust
Want to brake better = remove fogs/arch liners/fit RC5's
Want more grip = R888's

Want much faster = buy a car thats quick in the 1st place.
Click to expand...

*ahem* - no offense but what a load of crap

I fitted rear ARB, then more front camber, better suspension, got a remap, got it serviced, stripped it, fitted an exhaust, removed the fogs and arch liners and fitted decent brakes.

You're saying after all that when the car is handling spot on and stopping on a 5p coin that if you want more power you should just sell up with a massive financial loss and buy a quicker car?

What exactly is a quicker car - on track to keep up with my clio you'd have to be talking tuned evo - and that's a LOT more than the £3k ITB's cost

Silly advice.
 
Gally

Gally

Formerly Mashed up egg in a cup
ClioSport Club Member
LOL. I don't think that's what he said mate.

Want much faster = buy a car thats quick in the 1st place.
Click to expand...

Kinda self explanatory.
 
Cup_Phil

Cup_Phil

If you've not done anything to the car at all yet - and you're talking of happily blowing £10k+ then why not buy an actual clio 1*2 cup race car - there's a few kicking about. And with that you'd get a very nice sequential box, cage etc...

All you'd need then if you want more power is to whack some ITB's on it
 
Cup_Phil

Cup_Phil

gally said:
LOL. I don't think that's what he said mate.

Kinda self explanatory.
Click to expand...

It's not that simple though is it - when the clio is standard the power is more than enough. Track days are fun and it's giggles all round
But when you up-rate the suspension, brakes, tyres and make the car grip and stop better you obviously want more power to take advantage of that work

What car would you buy for £8k that would be as much fun on a track day as a stripped, caged, ITB'd clio?
 
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