Just fitted catcams 438. Sounds awful, help!

[davey1343]

As title says.

Just finished fitting my new cams, dephaser, belt, ac delete kit etc.

Started it up to be greeted to this:



To me it sounds as if its misfiring. I've got no EML on yet.

Im 99% sure the timing is correct although my first port of call will be rechecking it, surely it doesn't sound this bad just because it hasn't been remapped?

Cheers for any help

 

[hansthebear]

Ht leads on the right way?

 

[davey1343]

That's something else I was thinking, but again I'm sure they are in the correct order.

 

[Djw John]

First thing to check us your ht leads. That was my first thought when it eventually started.

Not that I've ever put them
Back in wrong and had a similar noise....

 

[hansthebear]

No me either of course

 

[Dan@SJM]

Down on compression on 1 pot. Timed up correctly?

 

[davey1343]

I tensioned it up with all pulleys loose, tightened, turned it over twice tool slipped in lovely.
Everything was torqued up correctly, this is my 4th belt change on a F4R and neither have sounded like this before :\
Only thing I can think is that when I was taking the dephaser from the inlet camshaft it had been over tightened so much it bent the tool and the camshaft slipped around onto a TDC locked engine.
I had to angle grind the dephaser pulley off in the end and it wasn't even the dephaser bolt it was the oil seal cap!
I'm talking a quarter of a turn, would that be enough to bend a valve? They all seemed fine when I felt through the inlet holes.
The only valves that were slightly unsealed when it was timed up were the inlet valves on the 3rd cylinder (2nd in from belt) and I thought the piston on cylinder 2/3 would be down when locked at TDC?
Engine ran fine before I took it apart - even though it hadn't been timed up properly from a previous belt change.

I can't get back to the car until tomorrow as I'm away at the moment.

 

[bloke]

you didn't use pulley locking tool?

 

[davey1343]

Yeah of course I did, how else can you change a belt

 

[bloke]

with you saying it bent the tool, sounded like you only had the horse shoe in place.

 

[Laine_16v]

Sounds identical when cranking to when i first put the F4R in my MK1 >> http://vid133.photobucket.com/albums/q51/laine_16v/Ressurect PNX/MOV00693.mp4

As determind above one of the cylinders will have 0 compression. I am never sure exactly what caused it but i removed the cam cover compressed all the hydraulic tappets in a vice, put it back together, and it was fine. One or more valves are never being given a chance to seat properly, hence the cylinder never builds any compression.

It wont be any terminal damage imo, id at least start with what i did.

 

[davey1343]

That sounds like it could be possible. Thinking back it didn't feel as their was much compression when I was cranking the engine to check timing....
Thanks for the ideas

 

[davey1343]

After squeezing the tappets did you fill them with oil or crank the engine over with the coils disconnected to prime them?

Cheers

 

[Dan@SJM]

I'm not convinced. I've fitted loads of these and never had an issue with them loosing compression after turning it over for a few seconds.

 

[davey1343]

If i had bent a valve would it be audible, or does it depend how bent it is?

 

[Ph1 Tom]

I've had issues on a different engine upon changing the cams and lifters where 2 of the lifters had 'locked out'. I took them all out, drained them all, refitted everything and it was fine then.

 

[davey1343]

Ok, well checked my HT leads and as I suspected they are on the correct way, tried a bit of WD40 still no luck.
Going to have a go at the lifers in the morning as I'm pretty certain I've timed it up correctly.
Tom once you've drained the lifers do you just put them straight back in or do you prime them with oil again?

Cheers

 

[Cooksport]

Have you done a Leak down or Compression test?

 

[Cupman29]

Y

Ok, well checked my HT leads and as I suspected they are on the correct way, tried a bit of WD40 still no luck.
Going to have a go at the lifers in the morning as I'm pretty certain I've timed it up correctly.
Tom once you've drained the lifers do you just put them straight back in or do you prime them with oil again?

Cheers

You need to prime them by submersing in diesel with them sitting vetical. Guess you'll be starting again then if you're checking them.

 

[davey1343]

Have you done a Leak down or Compression test?

No, unfortunately I don't have a compression tester but with retrospect when I was turning the crank it was FAR too easy to do. I was doing it with a small 1/2 drive rachet.

 

[Ph1 Tom]

Ok, well checked my HT leads and as I suspected they are on the correct way, tried a bit of WD40 still no luck.
Going to have a go at the lifers in the morning as I'm pretty certain I've timed it up correctly.
Tom once you've drained the lifers do you just put them straight back in or do you prime them with oil again?

Cheers

I put them straight back in, timed it back up and then started it. It was a bit tappy obviously until the lifters filled up.

Went from a dog of an engine running on 3 to purring like a kitten. Until then I didn't know lifters could lock out!

 

[Ph1 Tom]

I would test the cylinders first though to at least narrow down pinpointing the issue.

 

[warwickstingray]

Never owned a car with a Ford CVH in then. They did it just for fun. My friend found the wrong gear in my XR2 and spun it up enough to Jack up the followers and bend 4 exhaust valves. Thankfully followers are more robust these days!

 

[davey1343]

Right just reserved a compression tester to pick up tomorrow.
I'll keep you updated haha

 

[davey1343]

Did a compression test this morning.
0 on cylinder 1
120 on cylinder 2
didn't do 3 or 4 as there was no point.

Stripped it down bled all the tappets put it back together and it still sounds like an absolute dog :/



Not done another comp test yet but when I had the cams out I was turning the engine over without much effort at all and it sounded as if a lot of air was being forced out from a cylinder somewhere.
I guess having no cams it means all valves are closed?

Also it seems to like idling at 2k rpm.

Arggh :/

 

[Dan@SJM]

What tools have you used? I know someone who is a specialist fitted a set of 438's last year and got it very slightly wrong and when the Dephaser engaged it was clipping valves. But also 120psi is crap. I'd want to see 190+!

If you're turning the engine with no cams and it was easy/air escaping (providing plugs were in it) then you've bent valves.

 

[davey1343]

Yeah, I'm sure I've bent a valve on cylinder 1 when the cam slipped round.
When I was taking it apart on the inlet manifold for cylinder 1 there was black liquid stains which I assume were petrol coming out the inlet.
Next step is to take the head off...

 

[Ph1 Tom]

Doesn't sound good either a spare head or a rebuild required.

 

[davey1343]

Yep. Fortunately my girlfriend has an engine that spun a big end bearing... now to sweet talk her into lending me the head

 

[Dan@SJM]

I wouldn't want that head. Full of swarf etc

 

[davey1343]

Would I be better off buying a few new valves then?

 

[Ph1 Tom]

You could get a set of supertech valves for peace of mind too. Standard ones can drop valve heads

 

[Dan@SJM]

As above. I'd put in some supertech's, but uk stock is non existent ATM!

 

[warwickstingray]

The joy of engine builds......

 

[mark123]

Would I be better off buying a few new valves then?

If it is just a run about I wouldn't bother with supertechs. Just get std valves from Renault or use the valves from the engine that spun a bearing if you're on that much of a budget...