L.A.D’s 200+ bhp Conversion....

[paul172 .]

Just bin looking though the 12-18 feb issue of Auto Express and on page 85 there is a L.A.D Motorsport advert telling you about their own Clio Sport 200(Cup) and the conversion is available for anybody with a 172 which will be 200+ bhp engine kit costing £1200 inc VAT.

Advert in mag:-

CLIO SPORT 200

Clio owners upgrade your Clio sport with our latest tuning mods for this fantastic pocket rocket + must rate as one of the quickest small cars we have tuned in 26 yrs in its class.

Not sure if this company have come up before but does anybody know anythink bout the conversion any info would be great thanx paul172

 

[teady172]

The saxo guys over at saxosportsclub didnt think much of them! My bro told me they come out with some BS figures for other cars also!

 

[Rich-D]

Try the Peugeot & Citroen forums and ask about LAD on there mate.

You will not hear many good words said...



Been about for ages and their last "big thing" was either the 160 or 180 (as in bhp) conversions for the 106 GTi/Saxo VTS engine.

Needless to say, they didnt seem to make 160bhp, let alone 180bhp when tested on other rolling roads!



In my opinion I would steer clear!

 

[paul172 .]

Thanx for that lads just thought id ask.

 

[Tom_16v]

A lad I know off had the 160bhp conversion for his 106GTi but only had it rolling roaded at 145bhp.

The saxo boys dont like them either!

Does anyone know what mods LAD do to try and attain this figure, cos I bet youll only end up with 185bhp at most which would make it very expensive extra power.

 

[BenR]

depends what they do.....if it includes the std throttlebody.......in std form....dont bet on it....its very ltd to 190bhp.......peaky if you keep it.

 

[RobFenn]

I dont think they RR their cars b4 and after, it seems they base everything on theoretical ouputs.

 

[Rich-D]

Quote: Originally posted by RobFenn on 28 February 2003

I dont think they RR their cars b4 and after, it seems they base everything on theoretical ouputs.

More like Max Power style theory...

Say 10bhp for an exhaust, 5 bhp for a filter, 15bhp for cams, etc... , then sum it all up and add to the original 120bhp, then bingo 180bhp or so they reckon lads.

Wheras in reality, we all know that its never as powerful.

 

[Steveold]

unless you have got a 1.2 16v as bambam could tell ya! hehe

 

[Reth Clio cup]

just got this replt form LAD

Thank you for your enquiry with reference to tuning your Clio cup,the engineconversion we offer is basically the same that we do on the Peugeot andCitroen models to include removing the cylinder head and machining the inletand exh ports larger,valve throats and seats,combustion chamber reshaped.The cylinder head is then refitted back on to the engine and the valvetiming tweaked this has produced a increase of bhp from 172 to 205 and a10/15 % torque increase alsur car was road test last week by a leadingcar Magazine and the report is fantastic this is one of the best conversionswe have done in 26 years in the tuning business.Please come and try our carit has put fun back into my motoring at nearly sixty years of age, the fuelconsumption and driveability are still excellent.Please contact me by phone if you wish to discus the above in more detail.

Regards.

Ernie Larton.

--

LAD Motorsport. Tel. 01524 62748

http://www.ladmotorsport.co.uk

 

[Steveold]

LOL I think benr would have something to say about that..... jst head work to get 205 bhp im sure.... Benr says the only way to get that kinda increase was to get throttle bodies

 

[RobFenn]

Well looks like we need a cup driver to go for a test drive

 

[Simon]

hmmm - £1200 to have the head worked on and that includes the labour.

Seems quite a bit to me.

What do other tuners charge to modify a head and take it off and put it back on again?

 

[Simon]

Also 30 bhp increase from Modifying the head alone?? is this realistic - what do you reckon is achieveable in terms of BHP gain?

 

[RobFenn]

Ask BenR

 

[JJ172]

Quote: Originally posted by Reth Clio cup on 28 February 2003


just got this replt form LAD

Thank you for your enquiry with reference to tuning your Clio cup,the engineconversion we offer is basically the same that we do on the Peugeot andCitroen models to include removing the cylinder head and machining the inletand exh ports larger,valve throats and seats,combustion chamber reshaped.The cylinder head is then refitted back on to the engine and the valvetiming tweaked this has produced a increase of bhp from 172 to 205 and a10/15 % torque increase alsur car was road test last week by a leadingcar Magazine and the report is fantastic this is one of the best conversionswe have done in 26 years in the tuning business.Please come and try our carit has put fun back into my motoring at nearly sixty years of age, the fuelconsumption and driveability are still excellent.Please contact me by phone if you wish to discus the above in more detail.

Regards.

Ernie Larton.

--

LAD Motorsport. Tel. 01524 62748

http://www.ladmotorsport.co.uk

Email Ernie and ask him for a RR printout for before and after their conversion!

Sounds like a license to print money if you ask me!!

 

[BenR]

Oh oh!!!!

they said machine the manifold end of the port.....accurate! lol...nice and striaght too!! whihc is not what you want.

You cant do much to the combustion chamber....its basically perfect as is, and there is no metal to rehape....its hemi design.

The actual ports are already large enough, thats not the problem, the wayt o get gains is in the bowl, short side radius, port roof, transition, valve throat and valve geoemtry....

Somebosy email and ask them what teh valve angles they use are. If they say 35/45/60-70 its a std cut...nothing special.

head changes ALONE will give better low end running and low lift hains, of up to 25%, if done right...but, with the std cam and std TB.....dont expect too much. The std TB is just too small, its about the size of a civic 1.6 with 160bhp....vti or summat.

valve timing tweeked!!! with the std pulleys....um..its possibly if you remove the locating pin, but with VVT, no point at all.

all balls...

 

[RobFenn]

looks like LAD is a bit of a joke then. Well done Ben

 

[BenR]

not a joke, but not honest and their work sound a bit lazy...

I do everuthing on the head from 150 quid (port work) in mild street applications to 350 quid for rull race (port work). You need to add ther items such as new guides, collets, retainers, springs, valves and machinig. But i do these at cost and you are more thanw elcome to source these items yourself.

Process incluces, chemical clean, bead blast, port work, valve geometry calculated and cut on a very very big serci cutting machine, phosphor bronze guides pressed in, head skimmed, valves back cut and ground in, all reassembled....TA DA! a sexy head.

head and rocker cover polishing or painting at extra cost....

 

[Steveold]

and the BHP u gain from race head work ben?

 

[BenR]

on std TB......about 190bhp.....

The head is good for over 260bhp, BUT what you run with it in terms of cam profile, injeciton and inductin, exhaust etc will really dictate how much you are gonna get.

Potential is stored in the head.....its what you use to being it out.

i.e. bowl of 2000 jelly beans...you can use chopsicks to get them out, or a fappin big gravy spoon.

But a well done head will give gains at all points in teh rpm range and every stage or modification.

 

[RSTDL]

Dont doubt untill its been proved - and for the doubtees........... go and see the damn car .................and drive it before making ASSUMPTIONS!

If it dont get to 100 quicker than 16 then Im not interested..................

 

[paddymph]

thats a fair point cupsize. why dont they time it? or give it us and well time it for them!

 

[BenR]

true, although CCC said that their Mini conversion was good......but still...kind words

 

[RSTDL]

We should ask them for some hardened facts - independent RR results/AP22/racelogic timing or something - If it improves 0-60/0-100 and in gear acceleration Im all for it, but it would need to give a 0-60 of 5.9 or less or else the Focus RS still has the "official" quickest dash in this segment!

 

[HardcoreSax]

I cant comment on LADs work on the 172, but I can tell you that LAD have a very bad reputation for making wild power claims. Thats not to say that the actual work they carry out is of a low standard, but of all the conversions Ive heard theyve done on 106 Gtis and VTR/Ss havent made anywhere near the power they claim...

This is an article from Max Power October 2000- Saxo Vs 106 Shootout

LAD took their claimed "180bhp" demo car along and look at the performance figures...

http://www.severnsidemotorsport.com/~rob/graphics/mags2000/saxo106-3-4.jpg http://www.severnsidemotorsport.com/~rob/graphics/mags2000/saxo106-3-4.jpg

0-60 - 7.5s

0-100 - 20.8

1/4 mile 15.9 @ 88.6mph

A VTS with a true 180bhp would wipe the floor with those times. My VTR when it had 150bhp would wipe the floor with those times!

To compare on the same day the GMC supercharged VTS demo car (approx 200bhp) ran

0-60 - 6.2s

0-100 - 14.2s

1/4 mile 14.7 @ 101.7mph

My personal view is that I wouldnt trust a company that thinks so little of the intelligence of its customers that it would claim it can increase the power of a VTS/106 Gti from 120bhp to 180bhp simply from headwork, a new exhaust system and cams without any change whatsoever to the inlet system or more importantly the fueling setup! If they honestly think that is possible, then Id trust them even less!!!

 

[HardcoreSax]

Just another point, Id be surprised if any standard Focus RS would manage 0-60 of 5.9s

From what Ive been told the car Ford supplied to do those times had a strange Overboosting problem...

Which kind of makes sense because none of the other magazine reports Ive seen have managed to get anywhere near that time.

 

[telford_mike]

Theyre not the only ones to do it either. The standard Clio Cup tested in PGTi has its rev limiter set at 8,000 rpm. Now as far as Im aware the only Clios that rev to 8k are those that have had a remap / Superchip......?

 

[S600HBY]

My cup revs to 7250 shift light comes on in standad trim

 

[Fred@BTM]

That LAD 180 top speed 107mph!!! I can do that in my 1.2!!!!!

 

[gord r]

Heard bad things about them