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Latest CCC magazine - all clio owners

I Know the Captain posted a message about this, but cant find it to comment,

but all clio and Renault lovers should get this issue, BRILLIANT!!!!

includes articles on:
1. Clio Cup in Hot Hatch shoot out
2. Renault Spider road car
3. Clio 1600 Rally car - loadsa pics, anyone who likes drolling over big arched clio kits, check out the numerous photos!!!
4. Loadas other cool stuff, like the Golf GTIs one was clocked at 174mph!!! madness, sheer madness!!!

+ track day car of the year supplement!

Or go to your local Halfords, they seem to always stock it now, Basildon or the Rayleigh branch have a few copies usually,

me in stupid mode again but what does CCC stand for? Only ever bought Evo for past few yearsish/Perfomance car etc

Yeah great mag - but unfortunately CTR and Cooper S seem to have come out tops again ...............hummmm, Cup was praised as the best track day car of the lot though and the quickest if it had been timed.

Good article, now that I have read it, but I dont quite understand why they felt their Cup was unsettled on the road route, and why they felt it was softly sprung? That doesnt really coincide with my own observations.

Other magazines, especially Autocar, have commented on poor seats and driving position, and not so fantastic gear change, all of which I agree with, but the car still puts a huge grin on my face, despite minor shortcomings. An old school hot hatch of the fast and furious variety, and right up my street!
  Renault Laguna Coupe

A new set of springs will sort out the ride height and softly sprung critisism. The standard 172 has the same traits, and a set of Eibachs (or whatever brand you prefer) makes a huge difference.

Mile, I would caution against altering the cup suspension too much.

the difficulty is that the geometry will be changed by lowering it , this could make things far worse or better depending on the design.

I too am confused with the ccc comments re road and track ??. if the car is so good on the track, then it would be good on the road if pushed. It is usually the other way around where the track setup is too harsh on the road... Sometimes its a matter of exploration to find out how to drive it to its potential. IMHO too many rush out to change things becuase they are not used to the vehicles traits. Often a controlled exploration of the limits and characteristics is all thats needed. Often people expect the car to performs feats of grip that are impossible that driving beyond the limits of the design.

  Renault Laguna Coupe

Agreed Capt - you never really know how its going to turn out until its done. However, I think that the CCC report just highlights the issue of body roll / traction that we know afflicts the standard car. Only one way to find out - whos gonna be first then Cup owners? :) At least with a set of springs its easy to go back to the originals if it doesnt work out, and I assume that Eibach would take back their springs if they were manifestly unsuitable.

Hi Mike, yes agreed.

the main difficuly is in the area of camber change if it is lowered.

The body roll is something that not many are used to, it used to be the thing that you couldnt have handling with body roll due to the enourmous changes that occured on old design systems. This is really no longer the case, but, it can be alarming or unnerving to the unnitiated at first.

One would also presume that the body roll would be criticised on the track, it doesnt appear to be at all. If the suspension is designed to accomodate the roll then the geometry is designed with this in mind.

Stiffer springs can limit the movement and hence delay or negate introduction of negative camber on the outside wheel. lowering tends to induce some slight neg camber on the macpherson strut deisgn and often makes for a more acceptable feel, however, this can often lead to far more sudden breakaway at the limit. The key to driving the new clio would appear to be the fine balance of throttle against weight transfer.

I am uncertain as to what you mean by the traction issues though ?. CCC seemed to indicate that the traction is fine, when driven correctly. (fine being an overall compromise lol)

Often the root cause is using the throttle as a switch rather than a valve, personally I love the way the clio can be pushed into a corner on slight trail braking and then controled on the exit with the use of throttle and wheel inputs.



I wholeheartedly agree with your viewpoint, particulary re using a throttle as a switch not a valve. Having done rallying and racing over the years, one gets to learn that pedal action is not binary, i.e. 1 or 0, and that a pedal balancing act is as important and synonymous with steering inputs to learn to control the feel of a car.

Having the 3 cars that I own now requires a completely different driving style approach for each one. Throttle, brake and steering input are all the more important in the Elise, dont lift off completely in a corner or youll swap ends, use the throttle to manage the reduction of speed whilst not upsetting the balance and weight transfer.

On the A13 near where I live is a 290 degree dual lane slip road onto the A13 (very similar to the M25 to M40 - Oxford direction exit off the anticlockwise section). On Friday, I took all 3 cars (at different times ;-)) on the same piece to find out what was the quickest and at the same point on the actual merge point, what the actual speeds were.

The result was that there was not much between them at all!!!! 1 or 2 seconds at the most. What was interesting was being able to max out the CUP into the 1st part of the bend, when it was tightening a lot, lift off, the back came out beautifully and allowed me to keep the throttle planted all the way to the merge, with easily controlled throttle inputs. Very impressed at the amout of speed kept through the whole 290 degrees.

Im confident that the feeling of body roll is more down to the seats and crap position that the actual car. Its hard to detect/differentiate when you have to stiffen/change body position/hang onto the wheel all the time. When I get the new seats in, I think then ill get the true understanding whether there is any discernable roll that affects handling. As you said, you are right that a car needs to roll a bit, particulary todays cars. If it did not, then either your teeth would fall out or you would be through a hedge.


well said that Man !;) I prefer it to go grip, grip, grip, slide, blip, grip etc than grip, grip, grip, oh sh*t AGHHHHHH! etc

Yes, I would love to try the 172 with a decent seat, harness, extended sterring wheel boss (retaining the airbag - I have a cunning plan lol!) and an extention to the gear lever - moving the grip rearwards about 2-3" .

This would allow me to actually get race comfotable in the otherwise muddled driving position of the reno.


I probably wont remember all of them, but here goes... lol.. over the last 28 years I have been driving... (old git I know lol)

Mini 850, 998, 970 cooper s, 1071 cooper s, 1275 cooper s, 1400 and 1430.

Sunbeam Lotus (road), Sunbeam 2ltr (one of the rally cars I used).

Hillman Imp

Vauxhall Viva

Opel Manta


TVR 350i, 450

Escort 1100, rs 2000 mk1 and 2, escort Mexico

Lotus cortina mk2

HS Chevette (Full group 4 prepared both with lotus lump and blydenstein lump)

Citroen BX (MI-16 gti)VISA, XANTIA, 2cv !!!

Renault 4,5,12, 16, Clio 1.2 (Jayne still drives this), 172

plus various other boxes on wheels.... including Vectra, Austin 1800 (forgot that one lol) Maxi aghhhhh !.. and probably some I forget.....

quite a few really lol...

Oh, I did have a 205 gti for a short time (didnt like it) and even a talbot samba prepared by LAD... and a metro turbo of all things... an MR2 and an Astra GTE..

At one time, prior to a divorce I had 5 at one time, and 2 aircraft ! (down to only 2 now (cars)

At that time my toys were an astra van, a GTE, an MR2 on 40s, an Escort 1300 fwd, and the TVR 350i... an MW6 Microlight and an AMF Chevvron (Part owned).. perhaps I can now see a slight reason for the divorce lol >!

Erm...thats pretty impressive Joe! Must have cost you a pretty penny over the ages! So was the Ambulance driving a bit on the side to your career as a Trader in the City maybe??!!

My parents always used to have Citroens - the BXs we had always fell to bits though! Wonderful suspension though! My family is now on a raft of Volvos: four at this moment in time!! Noticed you havent had a Volvo (despite almost every other brand!), so why not pick up an ex-Police TWR-prepd T5 and have a play with it!!?;)

lol Ben,, nope never owned a volvo... would like to try a nice T5 though...

Yes it has cost a bloody fortune over the years.. Re the paramedic phase, at the same time I ran my own company (JpH Developments) and made more out of PC sales and support than I did from the NHS lol... 386 and 486 days...

Also, having no kids helps a lot !!!.. no drain on funds lol. I have a reasonably modest abode too, to allow more pennies for toys...

oh, and I have only ever had 3 new cars (which reminds me of 2 I forgot lol !.) a fiesta 950 (B106ACW) in 1985 !.. the first new one... A renault Scenic 1600, (forgot that too) company car on an R reg, and the 172... Dont bother with the company cars now even though I can have what I want, I prefer to take the money and run....


So will this mail evolve into "cars that youve owned"??

It should do as its an interesting topic.

Who wants to follow the Captain?


I will! Except it consists of...wait for it...

Clio 1.2 "Les Routiers" - which I butchered into a rally-style machine

Clio 16v - which I own now! Bit of a beast this one...

Im only 22!

lol, just dont forget as said, I am on old git !, comparatively !!! (A mere 45).. I have had more time to mess than most here so my aquisitions list (Feringi rule 126) will be longer....

OK for me, here goes: -

1988 - W Reg 950 CC Fiesta in Terracotta (My grandfathers)

1990 - D Reg MG Metro Turbo - Got stolen & cut up

1990 - H Reg Fiesta 1.1 LX

1994 - L Reg Renault Clio 16V

1994 - L Reg Renault Clio Williams 1 (stunning, got rid because of bird back then)

1995 - J Reg Renault 5 GTT (all in white, last of the line, beautiful car)

1995 - M Reg Renault 19 16V (dont ask why)

1996 - M Reg Renault 1916V (another one, but company car)

1996 - N Reg Alfa 155 Silverstone in Red (still Co car)

1996 - P Reg Subaru Impreza Turbo (opted out of Co car) (225 bhp approx with back box)

1997 - R Reg Prodrive Impreza Turbo (I smashed up the 1st one. Life changing experience!!- 240 bhp conversion)

1998 - R Reg WRX Sti Ver IV Type R - (Scary car - Full decat etc +300bhp/+300 lb/ft)

1999 - T Reg UK Impreza Turbo (bottom fell out of the import mkt - 260 bhp conversion + brakes/suspension etc - best all round car though!!)

2001 - V Reg Elise 160 (mad bad car - Love it!!!!)

2001 - 51 Reg UK WRX (Now 260 bhp (305 in a few weeks), 18" wheels, full system, brembos, LEDA suspension, body)

2001 - 51 Ford Ka Collection (One of my all time favourites. Can fault it except the sh*tty Ford Anglia engine!!)

2002 - 52 Renault Clio Cup (The lover affair with Renualts is back!!!!)

All in all 17 cars since 1988.

I wish I had kept the 5 GTT though


CUP, the KA used a endura which is a evolution of the crossflow, not the pre-corssflow as used in the anglia.

Also, Joe.....or anybody.

with the pre-crossflow, what was it originally called? i mean, you cant know you gonna make a crossflow before you do.....thats like making an 8v and calling it a pre 16valve!?

Oh capt.....your opinion......

a mini miglia rep with a suzuki swift Gti motor, imp or a lotus sunbeam........

also found a dead cheap minivan for 500 quid and its mint!!!!

oooer, and i still got my corolla AE86 to finish!!

Hi Ben, it was just called the OHV (OverHead Valve) engines as opposed to the older side valve engine.

these things are always after the event as ya say lol...

a progression (on engines) would be summat like...










We even had a few like....... "Turbo Super Lambda ABS EFI GTS (and Bar !) Intercooler Kompressor nutter b*****d"

But, at least I hope it answered yer question lol...

OHV was the term, Xflow came later prior to OHC etc..

yer pal.

Joe... lol... :D