Let's talk fast road/track cars!

[Knuckles]

scoffs car is in this months pfc.750+ bhp in his 5! unreal!

yes he is running a vag box he is also planning onmaking this conversion available to clio owners. updates soon

*goes to buy pfc

and thats mental! the last i heard it was around 610 :O

 

[2Damnsly Andy]

2.0ABF Turbo = 650+bhp stick it in a MKI Golf and eat every car on the road. 2.15 is probably the best part when the bike and Supra go at it and the MKI drives round them both.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfnOseO1-wk&list=FLiEg_3qNS64LVx87QvnuM0Q&index=58&feature=plpp_video

Of course loads of well over 800bhp Audi's from drag cars to street legal stuff. The VW scene has a strong outlet for some big engine figures.

 

[Chip-mk1]

2.0ABF Turbo = 650+bhp stick it in a MKI Golf and eat every car on the road. 2.15 is probably the best part when the bike and Supra go at it and the MKI drives round them both.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfnOseO1-wk&list=FLiEg_3qNS64LVx87QvnuM0Q&index=58&feature=plpp_video

I really dont see how we got from a thread about fastroad clios to 650bhp golf which have NO chance of putting that power down usefully on a trackday while FWD.
Its just irrelevant and only any use if you are into drag racing or straight line stop speed tests.

And to say it will beat everything on the road is just silly too TBH, I have friends with cars that would wipe the floor with the golf.

Of course loads of well over 800bhp Audi's from drag cars to street legal stuff. The VW scene has a strong outlet for some big engine figures.

But the OP is talking about moderately powered and very usable trackday and road cars, not drag racing and silly power figures that you can rarely use in anger.

 

[2Damnsly Andy]

I really dont see how we got from a thread about fastroad clios to 650bhp golf which have NO chance of putting that power down usefully on a trackday while FWD.
Its just irrelevant and only any use if you are into drag racing or straight line stop speed tests.

And to say it will beat everything on the road is just silly too TBH, I have friends with cars that would wipe the floor with the golf.





But the OP is talking about moderately powered and very usable trackday and road cars, not drag racing and silly power figures that you can rarely use in anger.

Chip it was more a point aimed at people saying MKI/MKII Golfs are classics and not for this kind of use. Indeed he even mentioned are there any other cars, well yes there are. There are plenty of Fast MKI and MKII golf track cars and drag cars that are FWD and put the power down very well. I'm not going to argue with your knowledge of Vauxhall's I was making a point about the use of VW's as it is alot of the big power Renault boys use VAG boxes anyway. Cheap cars to buy, good power plants and easy to sort handling on = a good track car. Or did I miss the point?

 

[M19TNR]

Tbh, although I do love a massive engine that can produce big straight line speed, I'm more after a clio that will produce around the region of 280bhp or even 300bhp to use on the road or track.

I think I know which way in going about it, but anymore info on turbo'ing the standard engine would be gratefully received!

 

[Chip-mk1]

Chip it was more a point aimed at people saying MKI/MKII Golfs are classics and not for this kind of use. Indeed he even mentioned are there any other cars, well yes there are. There are plenty of Fast MKI and MKII golf track cars and drag cars that are FWD and put the power down very well. I'm not going to argue with your knowledge of Vauxhall's I was making a point about the use of VW's as it is alot of the big power Renault boys use VAG boxes anyway. Cheap cars to buy, good power plants and easy to sort handling on = a good track car. Or did I miss the point?

The problem with the VAG 4 pot motors is that they have weak conrods which limits the potential without getting into the realms of a rebuild with steel rods etc, at which point its just as easy to low comp an F4R really if the OP specifically wants a clio, or do what I did and just start with a better engine like the honda one that isnt weak and unwilling to rev like the VW lumps all are.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Tbh, although I do love a massive engine that can produce big straight line speed, I'm more after a clio that will produce around the region of 280bhp or even 300bhp to use on the road or track.

I think I know which way in going about it, but anymore info on turbo'ing the standard engine would be gratefully received!

What sort of info would you like to know about mate with regards to turbo'ing the F4R?

Basics are IMHO

Go for aftermarket management, not mess about trying to adapt the standard, its ok if you have the equipment to do so yourself but if you going to expensive tuners to waste their time doing this sort of thing it ends up more expensive to get the right results than just using a decent aftermarket setup and you'll always be limited by the basic features of the original ecu

Drop the compression if you want to run much boost.
you can do this in the head if you wish, or obviously low comp pistons are an option

Power limit on the standard rods is variable as production quality isnt amazingly consistant but most people will view somewhere between about 280 and 330 as pretty much the limit, standard pistons are going to be ok to that sort of level if mapped correctly but not much beyond

Manifolds are readily available on ebay for about 100 odd quid (not checked recently)

The bumper takes a reasonable size intercooler quite well, if you want a cheap option look for a secondhand ST focus one where someone has upgraded it and as the standard one spare, they are fine for mid to high 200s.

 

[M19TNR]

Awesome reply man. Thanks.

So with regard to the CR issues, we talking direct fitment of a 197 head or will that take modifying?
I presume low comp prisons are going to be a more expensive option, however, if I'm going to be upgrading the power, I think I may aswell have room to improve rather than be limited by something I could have prevented in the beggining!

I've never used aftermarket Management before, always modifie the standard map with MPGarage/regal etc. where's a good place to look for this?

Going down the internal area, would it be best to get some updated valves, springs, head bolts?

Also, having some billet driveshafts? Or will standards do?

Box? Stick with the 172/182 box (will it hold power? 300bhp'ish) or is there a direct replacement that will hold the power?

So let's say I'm aiming for 300 as I think that's a realistic figure.
Will these all need re-thinking?

 

[M19TNR]

Also,

As you say with the RS FMIC, is there something bigger that will be more suited, as if I want to go more power, again, don't want to be restricted again.

Also turbo, the Astra VXR K04 is it worth looking at that, or goin for the more expensive Garrett route? What GT would you reccomend?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Awesome reply man. Thanks.

So with regard to the CR issues, we talking direct fitment of a 197 head or will that take modifying?

you have to drill and tap a couple of places but thats about it, it basically goes straight on, use the 172 cams and dephasor etc.

I presume low comp prisons are going to be a more expensive option, however, if I'm going to be upgrading the power, I think I may aswell have room to improve rather than be limited by something I could have prevented in the beggining!

Yes if you want more later one, leave the head standard and just fit low comp pistons and steel rods. It's about 750 quid for both as a package.

I've never used aftermarket Management before, always modifie the standard map with MPGarage/regal etc. where's a good place to look for this?

MWMsport on here would be a good option, seeing as its something they specialise in (they do various options but normally Omex) and they already have a turbo clio (just about to become 2 turbo clios in fact, they're doing a higher boost one on steel internals soon)

Going down the internal area, would it be best to get some updated valves, springs, head bolts?

Yes, cost permitting thats all worth doing for peace of mind.

Also, having some billet driveshafts? Or will standards do?

Standard shafts are stronger than the standard box, so no point worrying about shafts if on the standard box still!

Box? Stick with the 172/182 box (will it hold power? 300bhp'ish) or is there a direct replacement that will hold the power?

I've seen people claim the diesel boxes are stronger, but I doubt its true TBH, nothing else is a direct fit (well other than earlier williams ones which are no stronger anyway)

So let's say I'm aiming for 300 as I think that's a realistic figure.
Will these all need re-thinking?

300 seems a reasonable figure for a clio, thats what I will be aiming for with my honda turbo engine in my mk1.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Also,

As you say with the RS FMIC, is there something bigger that will be more suited, as if I want to go more power, again, don't want to be restricted again.

It was the ST I mentioned, dont know if an RS one will fit or not, Im not aware of anything readily available that will fit, but you'll just need to measure up the space and look at options.
core quality is as important as core size, avoid cheap ebay ones IMHO and stick to a garret core or similar.

Also turbo, the Astra VXR K04 is it worth looking at that, or goin for the more expensive Garrett route? What GT would you reccomend?

The VXR turbo wont fit any manifold you'll find for a clio, and isnt good enough to warrant a custom manifold being made to suit it.

 

[Jaff.]

I think you need to change that "soon" to "eventually" as people have been saying for f**king ages now that its going to be soon, lol

i have the first flywheel en route to me as we speak...

 

[Chip-mk1]

i have the first flywheel en route to me as we speak...

Cool, have the box adaptor plates been made yet?
Flywheel is the easy bit TBH.

 

[mx1_champ]

Also,

As you say with the RS FMIC, is there something bigger that will be more suited, as if I want to go more power, again, don't want to be restricted again.

Also turbo, the Astra VXR K04 is it worth looking at that, or goin for the more expensive Garrett route? What GT would you reccomend?

the intercooler needs to be sized in relation to your needs.. a massive IC will cool a little more but on a smaller turbo will give you a a little more lag.. there cheap enough to swap about as and when needed.
same with injectors you wont jam 1000cc's in there in the of chance you may go big hp. you used the relevant sized ones for what you need at the given time

 

[Chip-mk1]

the intercooler needs to be sized in relation to your needs.. a massive IC will cool a little more but on a smaller turbo will give you a a little more lag.. there cheap enough to swap about as and when needed.
same with injectors you wont jam 1000cc's in there in the of chance you may go big hp. you used the relevant sized ones for what you need at the given time

Intercooler volume is unlikely to effect lag in anyway that you notice TBH, when you think how many thousands of litres of air a minute your engine consumes a few more litres in the intercooler isnt going to be a big issue.
Decent intercooler bought new with a garrett core or similar is generally about 500 quid or so, so im not so sure I'd be wanting to keep buying them.

 

[Jaff.]

Cool, have the box adaptor plates been made yet?
Flywheel is the easy bit TBH.

ive made an adaptor plate drawing on CAD, i bilieve scoff has a copy of his own to fit in a clio.

 

[Scoff]

Cool, have the box adaptor plates been made yet?
Flywheel is the easy bit TBH.

I agree they're not rocket science but they were not that straight forward either - it took some back and forth until I was happy with the design and actually I would say that the adaptor plate is far simpler. My delay with those has been a lack of getting a Clio in to the workshop for a trial conversion. I am assured there will be one comming in early Jan so finally I will be able to trial fit an adaptor plate with 02M and iron out any bugs.

Chris

 

[Chip-mk1]

Fantastic stuff Chris, I know a couple of people who say they are intending to run the VAG boxes so Im sure there will be a market for these once they are available.
Is it a 172 clio or an earlier one?

If its a 172, does that mean you'll be able to supply driveshafts to suit as well?

Would be nice to have it available as a complete kit.

 

[Silent_Scone]

seconded'

 

[marinemackay2003]

the vag box conversion will be the gate way to some seriously fast clios

im in if it could be done as a kit

 

[Scoff]

Hi Chip,

Yes, a 172, so the idea is to document as I go and make jigs for the mounts so that I can make parts or kits to order in the future. Shafts I will need to do on an exchange basis or I'd modify your existing ones, or just supply the lengths if people are happy having their own or custom shafts made

Cheers, Chris

 

[Daz.]

I'd be well up for a vag box kit

 

[Chip-mk1]

Hi Chip,

Yes, a 172, so the idea is to document as I go and make jigs for the mounts so that I can make parts or kits to order in the future. Shafts I will need to do on an exchange basis or I'd modify your existing ones, or just supply the lengths if people are happy having their own or custom shafts made

Cheers, Chris

Sounds ideal.