Lightweight track car

[Jim78]

Hello all I'm new to this forum and new to clio,s .
I'm thinking for building a track car out of a 172/182 and I want to know what people think of the fiberglass boot ,bonnet and doors that are available? I have seen new bonnet,s the supplier is claiming 5kg how much of a saving is this from the steel unit?

 

[green]

Probably half the weight. Doors probably more than half the weight. As for the boot not much in weight saving with the metal..plastic window will save loads

 

[BaileyWolves]

Just buy a cup strip the interior and do some breathing mods and a map uprate brakes and suspension and u will be flying !!!

 

[Jim78]

Just buy a cup strip the interior and do some breathing mods and a map uprate brakes and suspension and u will be flying !!!

Ok . Your going to have to bear with me hear but if I'm going to do brake and suspension upgrades why do I need to spend more getting a cup instead of a standard 172/182 ?

 

[BaileyWolves]

The cup is an ideal track car mate it’s already track focused being much lighter than a standard 172 and 182 in standard form. It has a wider track too but depending on condition a suspension refresh or track focused suspension and better brakes and pads always a good start. Mine is in road form but can only imagine what it would be like stripped with what I have done to it. There are many on here much better focused for track stuff than me but the 172 cup is an ideal base over the loaded weightier standard cars I beleive . I just presumed you would rework this regardless of what car u got mate sorry and if it’s for track a higher mileage cup would come in a similar price bracket

 

[BaileyWolves]

I think I was just thinking by all the time and money u spent stripping and lightning a standard 182 for example you wouldn’t be any further forward than a cup with just no interior I maybe wrong lol

 

[David172]

I'm tracking my non cup 172 purely because I grew attached to it and didn't want to sell it
I think the only annoying difference is having to remove the aircon.
If you have the option buy a cup, if not then expect a bit more work

 

[Jim78]

The cup is an ideal track car mate it’s already track focused being much lighter than a standard 172 and 182 in standard form. It has a wider track too but depending on condition a suspension refresh or track focused suspension and better brakes and pads always a good start. Mine is in road form but can only imagine what it would be like stripped with what I have done to it. There are many on here much better focused for track stuff than me but the 172 cup is an ideal base over the loaded weightier standard cars I beleive . I just presumed you would rework this regardless of what car u got mate sorry and if it’s for track a higher mileage cup would come in a similar price bracket

Right so there is a difference, good to know.
I had a Westfield 15 years ago and that was 480kg +me and 125/135 bhp .
So I'm looking to get a car to be about 850kg and 200 bhp . If I have go turbo in the long run that's fine but I'm trying to work out where is the best place to start . It doesn't matter what other car I look at or research I keep coming back to the clio

 

[BaileyWolves]

Bloody hell thought the cups were light mines 190bhp normally aspirated and stripped I would imagine would be plenty of power to weight what your looking to achieve

 

[Jim78]

Bloody hell thought the cups were light mines 190bhp normally aspirated and stripped I would imagine would be plenty of power to weight what your looking to achieve

How did you get 190 bhp? Have you gone for throttlebodys and stand alone managment ? Or is there another way

 

[16v_paddy]

How did you get 190 bhp? Have you gone for throttlebodys and stand alone managment ? Or is there another way

Breathing mods (exhaust etc) along with cams from a 197/200 and a map gets you in that sort of region

Can't be 100% sure with the weight figures as mk1's are more my area of knowledge but doors are most certainly worth the effort replacing, on the later Mk1 Clios, a normal door weighs 38kg and the plastic replacement weighs 5kg

As for the 172 Cup, they're 80kg or so lighter than the other versions which is why people are suggesting to start with 1 of those, I know they have a smaller fuel tank but where the rest of the weight loss comes from I have no idea

 

[BaileyWolves]

This will sound absolutely crazy but I have got a ktec induction kit ktec stealth exhaust and a ktec sports cat mapped at Efi by Chris and made 189.7 bhp Strong engine I guess mate

 

[BaileyWolves]

It made 175bhp with no mods and a map so was strong to start

 

[16v_paddy]

You do get freaky ones from time to time, a mate of mine had a silver 172 Cup with aircon & completely standard it made 184bhp at Surrey Rolling Road, as it was due a belt he then took it to Ktec for cams & a map & it then made 186bhp

 

[BaileyWolves]

Lol gutted ha ha yeh mate it did really well like I was saying to jim with that kind of power stripped must feel brilliant

 

[Usr117063]

If you want a track clio the best one to get is the colour you like and the one thats the cheapest. Whats the difference of the starting weight if you are going to strip it anyway?

 

[Jim78]

It made 175bhp with no mods and a map so was strong to start

It made 175bhp with no mods and a map so was strong to start

I take it that is wheel BHP and not crank bhp. Were is Efi ? I'm is Staffordshire 20 minutes from Donington park

 

[BaileyWolves]

Yes Jim 171lbs of torque mainly in midrange which is great for the type of driving I do. It’s in Runcorn Cheshire which is a bit of a jaunt I am in Wolverhampton but Chris is a really nice guy and is amazing with renaults has a good rep in the community

 

[massivewangers]

If you want a track clio the best one to get is the colour you like and the one thats the cheapest. Whats the difference of the starting weight if you are going to strip it anyway?

Some logic in this, as Cups seem to be getting more expensive.

The advantage with a Cup is the lack of ABS/air con more than weight, but those things can be removed easily enough in reality.

 

[BaileyWolves]

That’s a fair comment seen some cheaper ones on eBay but I guess your getting less condition than a 172 / 182 at similar money ?

 

[Jim78]

Yes Jim 171lbs of torque mainly in midrange which is great for the type of driving I do. It’s in Runcorn Cheshire which is a bit of a jaunt I am in Wolverhampton but Chris is a really nice guy and is amazing with renaults has a good rep in the community

That's great as I work in Cheshire so I can get to Runcorn any time

 

[Jim78]

That’s a fair comment seen some cheaper ones on eBay but I guess your getting less condition than a 172 / 182 at similar money ?

Just have to be a bit careful and try and pick a half descent one

 

[16v_paddy]

If you want a track clio the best one to get is the colour you like and the one thats the cheapest. Whats the difference of the starting weight if you are going to strip it anyway?

Because 80kg less weight is a f**king huge amount to begin with & there's got to be some serious thought & engineering gone into it under the surface to get to that point, Lamborghini used to do a Gallardo that weighed 100kg less & they charged an extra £30k for that because of the effort involved with getting rid of that much weight
Put a 172 and a 172 Cup side by side, look at the difference in weight and consider the cars look pretty much identical and you have to ask what's going on under the surface to achieve that?
No A/C or ABS is only going to be in the region of 10-15kg difference at most, 2kg at most for 1 less belt in the back, a few hundred grammes from cloth seats instead of the leather/alcantara, 1kg at a push for no engine cover, no idea what saving there is from a smaller fuel tank as it's plastic but for arguments sake lets say 5kg, there's still the same sound deadening stuff all over the Cup so there's no weight saving from that, the Cup also has speakers in the front and rear, it's still got airbags etc.
So at best you can account for 30kg of weight saving, what about the other 50kg? There has to be something different with the structure of the car to achieve that, take a normal 172 and a Cup, strip & mod both in the exact same way and the Cup will still weigh less

Another shout out for Chris at EFI Parts, he's mapped mine & quite a lot of other people's cars I know with fantastic results, 1 point worth bearing in mind is that he's very slow to reply to emails because he's so busy and you're basically at the back of the queue until he gets a chance to deal with it but he's most certainly worth the wait

 

[Twingo 1??]

You can probably shift a load of weight out. Just copied this from my thread for the Twingo, the weights should not be to different to a 172 as lots of the parts should be similar.

Front seats 38kg
Rear seat 15.5kg
Parcel shelf 1kg
Rear cards 2kg
Boot carpet and plastic 1kg
Rear belts and fixings 4kg
Spare wheel 13kg
Wheel brace and tools 2kg
Radio 1kg
Sun visors 1kg
Front belts and fixings 4kg
Plastic door surround 1k
Front mats and floor sound proofing 5kg
Head lining 2kg
Carpet 3kg
Front airbags 5.5kg
Rear wiper motor 2.5kg
Behind dash sound proofing 11kg
Floor sound proofing 4kg
Seat brackets and rear boot brackets 5kg

121kg but I still have s**t loads to go!

 

[Jim78]

Because 80kg less weight is a f**king huge amount to begin with & there's got to be some serious thought & engineering gone into it under the surface to get to that point, Lamborghini used to do a Gallardo that weighed 100kg less & they charged an extra £30k for that because of the effort involved with getting rid of that much weight
Put a 172 and a 172 Cup side by side, look at the difference in weight and consider the cars look pretty much identical and you have to ask what's going on under the surface to achieve that?
No A/C or ABS is only going to be in the region of 10-15kg difference at most, 2kg at most for 1 less belt in the back, a few hundred grammes from cloth seats instead of the leather/alcantara, 1kg at a push for no engine cover, no idea what saving there is from a smaller fuel tank as it's plastic but for arguments sake lets say 5kg, there's still the same sound deadening stuff all over the Cup so there's no weight saving from that, the Cup also has speakers in the front and rear, it's still got airbags etc.
So at best you can account for 30kg of weight saving, what about the other 50kg? There has to be something different with the structure of the car to achieve that, take a normal 172 and a Cup, strip & mod both in the exact same way and the Cup will still weigh less

Another shout out for Chris at EFI Parts, he's mapped mine & quite a lot of other people's cars I know with fantastic results, 1 point worth bearing in mind is that he's very slow to reply to emails because he's so busy and you're basically at the back of the queue until he gets a chance to deal with it but he's most certainly worth the wait

Because 80kg less weight is a f**king huge amount to begin with & there's got to be some serious thought & engineering gone into it under the surface to get to that point, Lamborghini used to do a Gallardo that weighed 100kg less & they charged an extra £30k for that because of the effort involved with getting rid of that much weight
Put a 172 and a 172 Cup side by side, look at the difference in weight and consider the cars look pretty much identical and you have to ask what's going on under the surface to achieve that?
No A/C or ABS is only going to be in the region of 10-15kg difference at most, 2kg at most for 1 less belt in the back, a few hundred grammes from cloth seats instead of the leather/alcantara, 1kg at a push for no engine cover, no idea what saving there is from a smaller fuel tank as it's plastic but for arguments sake lets say 5kg, there's still the same sound deadening stuff all over the Cup so there's no weight saving from that, the Cup also has speakers in the front and rear, it's still got airbags etc.
So at best you can account for 30kg of weight saving, what about the other 50kg? There has to be something different with the structure of the car to achieve that, take a normal 172 and a Cup, strip & mod both in the exact same way and the Cup will still weigh less

Another shout out for Chris at EFI Parts, he's mapped mine & quite a lot of other people's cars I know with fantastic results, 1 point worth bearing in mind is that he's very slow to reply to emails because he's so busy and you're basically at the back of the queue until he gets a chance to deal with it but he's most certainly worth the wait

What you are saying makes perfect sense. I'm really struggling to think where the other 50kg is coming from ???? Did thay make it out of thinner gauge steel or somthing

 

[scullyg40]

No sound insulation, different interior, no ABS etc. I'm pretty sure the base of the car is the same. For instance, my stripped out track car weighs 830 kg's. That includes a 70 kg cage. I'm also pretty sure Lamborghini is laughing really hard at those buying the lightweight versions.

 

[Jim78]

You can probably shift a load of weight out. Just copied this from my thread for the Twingo, the weights should not be to different to a 172 as lots of the parts should be similar.

Front seats 38kg
Rear seat 15.5kg
Parcel shelf 1kg
Rear cards 2kg
Boot carpet and plastic 1kg
Rear belts and fixings 4kg
Spare wheel 13kg
Wheel brace and tools 2kg
Radio 1kg
Sun visors 1kg
Front belts and fixings 4kg
Plastic door surround 1k
Front mats and floor sound proofing 5kg
Head lining 2kg
Carpet 3kg
Front airbags 5.5kg
Rear wiper motor 2.5kg
Behind dash sound proofing 11kg
Floor sound proofing 4kg
Seat brackets and rear boot brackets 5kg

121kg but I still have s**t loads to go!

WTF is the wiper motor made of lead ? 121kg is an impressive amount of weight though

 

[massivewangers]

The Cup has thinner glass, less sound deadening, a crappy light rear bench, no middle seatbelt, no air con (it was optional), no ABS, no CD changer, no spare wheel and maybe a couple of other bits I forgot. The Turinis might be lighter than the standard wheels too. The shells are identical to my knowledge, so it all comes from the above.

i'd just buy on condition rather than a specific model these days to be honest. If you're stripping it out, you'll throw away most of the lightweight stuff anyway and you can get an AC delete kit. I wouldn't worry about trying to seek out a Cup specifically.

 

[Jim78]

No sound insulation, different interior, no ABS etc. I'm pretty sure the base of the car is the same. For instance, my stripped out track car weighs 830 kg's. That includes a 70 kg cage. I'm also pretty sure Lamborghini is laughing really hard at those buying the lightweight versions.

You must have got brutal to get it that light

 

[scullyg40]

I have a project thread if you're interested.
I haven't gone really brutal to my opinion, just made the decision to have a dedicated track car, so I have no lights, no dash, but still metal doors, boot and hood.

 

[Jim78]

I have a project thread if you're interested.
I haven't gone really brutal to my opinion, just made the decision to have a dedicated track car, so I have no lights, no dash, but still metal doors, boot and hood.

Yes mate I would be really interested in your thread its always good to see other people's ideas

 

[16v_paddy]

I'm also pretty sure Lamborghini is laughing really hard at those buying the lightweight versions.

Possibly or perhaps maybe not, just puts it into perspective from a manufacturing point of view what it takes & costs to produce a version of car that's significantly lighter.
A brilliant example of this is to look at the lengths Renault went to so they could keep the weight down on the new Alpine A110, 1 of them being the effort they went to for the wipers, they designed & engineered a crazy mechanism for the screenwash , it had to meet some legal requirement to do with the coverage the screenwash gives in relation to how many millilitres sprayed vs the area of the screen and all that resulted in them designing & building a mechanism for the screenwash to be sprayed directly onto the wiper blades which was more efficient which meant they could to use a much smaller bottle for the screenwash which saved 200g

 

[Usr117063]

That reminded me I think the cup has a smaller washer bottle as well and no headlight washer pump

 

[BaileyWolves]

I have owned a 172 when they first come out and a couple of 182 FF and even when my cup was standard you can feel the difference in handling and it’s agility, just feels more nimble it’s basic and a bit raw but as said above they put a lot of time and effort in when building it and I think it was cheaper originally. Good point made also if your stripping a car totally your project could be any Clio I guess just the cup has the perfect base to start if you can find the right one

 

[djp66]

For what it's worth when I was having the alignment done on my 172 cup I had it weighed and it came in at 1020kg. It's completely standard apart from some evo trendlines in place of the cup font seats. Originals are 21kg each, trendlines are 13kg so with the saving for the pair but a fullish tank of gas I reckon the stated 1030kg weight is probably right.

 

[MarkCup]

Side airbags in the front seats, don't forget them, the rest of the weight saving is covered above.

Glass, wheels, sound deadening (my cup had zero stuck anywhere), simple rear bench and so on.

I took mine down to the bare metal inside, replaced the driver's seat with a lightweight bucket, removed the rears, headlining, no door cards, no interior trim anywhere, the only original thing that remained inside was the passenger seat and the dashboard. I also removed the carbon canister and power steering.

As is my way, I weighed EVERYTHING I removed and in the case of the drivers seat, the difference between the two.

That lot removed came to 117kgs so in theory my Cup ended up at 904kgs and with no power steering made a consistent 180bhp.

It sat a little high on the standard springs but otherwise, with proper brakes and sticky tyres, was an absolute weapon on track.

 

[Jim78]

Side airbags in the front seats, don't forget them, the rest of the weight saving is covered above.

Glass, wheels, sound deadening (my cup had zero stuck anywhere), simple rear bench and so on.

I took mine down to the bare metal inside, replaced the driver's seat with a lightweight bucket, removed the rears, headlining, no door cards, no interior trim anywhere, the only original thing that remained inside was the passenger seat and the dashboard. I also removed the carbon canister and power steering.

As is my way, I weighed EVERYTHING I removed and in the case of the drivers seat, the difference between the two.

That lot removed came to 117kgs so in theory my Cup ended up at 904kgs and with no power steering made a consistent 180bhp.

It sat a little high on the standard springs but otherwise, with proper brakes and sticky tyres, was an absolute weapon on track.

I take it the steering was heavier but not bad ?

 

[MarkCup]

I take it the steering was heavier but not bad ?

I swapped that out as well...

 

[MarkCup]

Sorry, just realised, steering feel. Yep, proper heavy, really heavy, too heavy.

 

[MarkCup]