Lookin at ECU's EFI EURO4

[MR_PEA]

Has anybody here had any expirence with these ecu's i just got a quote to get one fitted to my lightly modded RSC172, pritty expencive...
but the gains seemed to be worth it..

i want to stay away from the factory management and get something decent.. so later down the track if i want i can do head work and cams, maybe some bottom end work

for an idea of what im on about
http://www.compsystems.com.au/Catalogues/EFIEuro/Euro4.pdf

 

[kully]

Has anybody here had any expirence with these ecu's i just got a quote to get one fitted to my lightly modded RSC172, pritty expencive...
but the gains seemed to be worth it..

i want to stay away from the factory management and get something decent.. so later down the track if i want i can do head work and cams, maybe some bottom end work

for an idea of what im on about
http://www.compsystems.com.au/Catalogues/EFIEuro/Euro4.pdf

there was an smt6 chip for sale in the car parts section , defo worth a look in
SMT6 Piggy Back ECU

 

[portal172]

How much was it mate?

If you don't have cams, it's not really worth the expense, you will have to re-map it again when you put the cams in.

 

[MR_PEA]

About 4G installed..
i want to get cams, if i already have the ECU, cams, quadthrottle bodies ect arnt an issue.

 

[kully]

You need to speak to Yozzasport

 

[MR_PEA]

i need someone in melbourne australia,, not uk, sorry.

i have spoken to paul @ autoparis & pat at Compertition systems...
as far as i can tell for a standalone management system it rivals motec and is far better value for money.

 

[GordonD]

Have you tried the Oz Renault forum to see if anyone knows of a suitable product there?

http://www.ozrenaultsport.com/forum/

Replacing the car's standard ECU with a competition ECU would be one hell of a rewiring job, and it isn't going to be the cost effective way of getting a remap. Whatever they tell you, their ECU isn't going to do much of a better job, if at all, than the standard ECU.

 

[MarkM]

I have standalone management on my car. I assume you are replaceing the fly by wire?

My ECU is not up to motec standards and the factory ECU is far better at doing things like cold start and idle control. On a lightly modded car standalone management is pointless IMO you can get the factory ECU remapped in the short term. If you eventually want some wild cams and throttle bodies get one fitted then.

What gains were you told you would get?

 

[Swish_aus]

Guys we're basically told that it will get decent gains as it's dyno tuned to suit and runs all the standard features of the car fine, as EFI design OE ecu's for lambos etc (we know how well their electrics work hahaha) and we don't have anyone doing ecu tuning anywhere.

We're up against it, sometimes it looks like organising UK group buys is the only way to do anything. Btw we're all from the ozrenaultsport forum, pea, portal and I.

Even a pom should be able to work that out:rasp:.

So help us out? After all, we're as damn keen as you to enjoy our magnificent pieces of french tuning.

 

[MR_PEA]

yea the kit for the fly by wire is an extra 500 odd...
but im really tempted to do this as the gains seem to be worth the extra few dollars...

has anybody done this in europe?

 

[portal172]

What sort of gains are we talkin about?

I think stand alone management is overkill, unless you have TB's.

The tuners in the UK can remap the standard ecu to suit cams, I think? I believe EFIOZ can do it too.

Ben? Fred? Help some aussies out here!

 

[edde]

I think stand alone management is overkill, unless you have TB's.

Depends on the cams, BenR's got some cam specs which stock ECU doesn't like to idle well.

yea the kit for the fly by wire is an extra 500 odd...
but im really tempted to do this as the gains seem to be worth the extra few dollars...

has anybody done this in europe?

Bin the drive my wire its usless IMO.

 

[Gaz_]

What sort of gains are we talkin about?

I think stand alone management is overkill, unless you have TB's.

The tuners in the UK can remap the standard ecu to suit cams, I think? I believe EFIOZ can do it too.

Ben? Fred? Help some aussies out here!

i think your right about standalone management, it is overkill unless you are fitting TB's There are alot of guys on here who run cams on their 172's on the stock ecu (remapped), give gains up to around 200hp (with filter exhaust etc). Its a reasonably* cheap mod, and means there is no cold start issuses or xmas tree dash lights lol

 

[BenR]

Depends on the cams, BenR's got some cam specs which stock ECU doesn't like to idle well.

What are you talking about?

 

[BenR]

Portal is quite right, no need to bother with grands worth of HIGHLY expensive competition based standalone ECU just to 'tweek' things. You could get it installed an the gains would be minimal, especially for the outlay.

Then you'll spend ages sorting out the climate control, dash interface, cruise control etc etc.

If your running the stock inlet manifold and nothing too wild, then run the stock ecu.

 

[portal172]

What would you recommend we run with modified inlet, your high torque cams, exhaust, Maxogen etc?

I don't think we can get the standard ecu mapped here, our only option is stand alone and piggy back ecu's, unichip etc.

 

[stan*]

You can buy KMS managment for £400. It has adative lambda control, launch control, full throttle shift function..yadda yadda. Its a comprehensive control solution at a price you cant complain about.

http://www.vankronenburg.nl/

 

[stan*]

http://kms.vankronenburg.nl/index2.html

This is the ecu section

 

[edde]

Depends on the cams, BenR's got some cam specs which stock ECU doesn't like to idle well.

What are you talking about?

I'm sure you were on about cams you'd desinged which stock ECU woulnd't have run well due to, heck I'm no expect not going to lie map sensor readings or something?

 

[stan*]

Likely he came up with a spec designed for use on non-OE controlled engine...so MAP sensor doesnt cause issues..

the way you worded it first time round sounded like he designed them so they wouldnt run on OE managment!

 

[BenR]

i'm lost lol.

There are plenty of cams that will and wont run on stock ECU, there is a transition point.

You dont specifically design something not to run on the OE ECU? :S

 

[GordonD]

Whether there's some cams that the standard ECU can't be remapped to handle, its irrelevant. These guys on Australia have a problem. They know there's easy extra power available from a remap, but there's no-one they know of in Australia who can do a remap of the standard ECU. So they're faced with having to replace the standard ECU with a different one for no other reason than that someone there says he has the expertise to do a remap of it.

There's got to be an easier answer. If so many places in the UK can remap a standard Clio Sport ECU it can't be rocket science. What does it require? Could they club together and buy whatever hardware and or software it requires and find themselves a dyno workshop in Melbourne who's willing to become a Clio Sport expert in return for guaranteed business.

Its not as if Fred or edde or BrnR or anyone else who uses this forum to help their Renault tuning business are going to lose any business out of helping them. In fact they might gain business by these guys being able to buy performance parts from you because they know they'll be able to have the car tuned to suit.

 

[BenR]

I have been in contact with plenty of the boys from down under and advised the ones I have spoken to accordingly.

I was not aware that NOBODY down there could remap the stock ecu......i'm sure there was one company that could.

 

[MR_PEA]

the fact of the matter is that none of the guys here in melbourne/sydeny want to outlay the money for minimal return. for all of the RSC/Ms in australia, its pea nuts compaired to UK/Europe,

i would love to just be able to run the factory management.. but you are limited to what it can handle, at the end of the day if i outlay a few G and get some awesome figures i will know that its worth it, and if i dont ill do some more homework get the heads done and cams, and if im feeling like really treating myself ill get some hi-comp pistons and rods. and doo the whole bottom end.

 

[portal172]

I'm pretty sure the www.compsystems.com.au can re-map the OE ecu.

 

[stan*]

with alot of the hardware, your not limited to JUST RS Clios...most stock managment can be manipulated. It may be a couple of $K outlay initially, but if you aim for other cars also, you will have the monopoly really.

Worth considering.

 

[matty w]

i suppose the FBW may cause problems with certain cams?

 

[MR_PEA]

i asked them and they werent equiped to do that yet...

 

[EFIOZ]

I feel the need to clarify a couple of points.

EFI Technology is an OE supplier to Lamborghini, Lotus and Aprillia. They have also made all of Magneti marelli's competition ECU's (up until the Marvel and including the F1 systems) and also have supplied or do supply Judd, Mugen, Cosworth, Novamotor and many other engine builders.

The Euro4 is the aftermarket version of the ECU as fitted to the current generation Lotus Elise/Exige with the Toyota engine. They are also the only company that can get a 500HP Lamborghini past the Californian Clean Air Act. The start up parameters, idle control and other driveability tricks are far in advance of any other aftermarket ECU. They also have self learning software, knock control and a wide range of supported varialbe camshafts and DBW systems.

The DBW system, any DBW system, is not the ideal solution for a performance engine. The response is slow compared to a mechanical system and it has no other performance benefit whatsoever. Even trying to do proper TC with it is very difficult without days of track testing.

Competition Systems can reflash Clio Sport and Megane 225 ECU's but to date, no one has seriously asked us too. It is not our preferred method of tuning as it is, at best, a guesstimate compared to a proper real time tune.

 

[portal172]

Thanks for the info EFIOZ.

When you say re-flash, do you mean re-program the ecu with a pre-designed map?

Is there something we can do to re-map the OE ecu on the fly? Just to suit cams, exhaust etc..

If you can provide me with a reflash to run cat cams (not the wild ones), then I would definetely go for it.

I just think the Euro is overkill for anything other than TB's. What we need is a reliable piggy back ecu, or OE remap that can be tuned to suit aftermarket cams and breathing mods. I don't want to be replacing looms just to run a set of cams.

The guys in the UK have lots of options, why can't we? Is it a cost factor for tuners?

What are your thoughts?

Cheers.

 

[BenR]

If you can flash the stock ECU, then you can generate any custom map you want for whatever your build spec is.

You just cant live map, which isnt a big deal.

 

[MR_PEA]

atm this is the only real alternative other then those reflashing promised HP gains. i can see it being an expencive path but the results could be quite intresting..
thats why ive decided to go ahead with it.. but atm ive got some cash to save before hand.

 

[EFIOZ]

If you can flash the stock ECU, then you can generate any custom map you want for whatever your build spec is.

You just cant live map, which isnt a big deal.

No, that's the whole deal.

 

[BenR]

Well you'll want to get the software then lol.

 

[MarkM]

http://www.compsystems.com.au/Catalogues/EFIEuro/Euro4.pdf

Just had a read of this.

It certainly sounds good. Has more standard features then my OMEX and better upgradeability. Tempting to ditch my shitty OMEX and get one of these. Whats the cost of the hardware?

Also the fact it is used so widely by performance car manufacturers speaks for itself.

As long as you get it mapped properly sounds like a nice bit of kit. If you are going to eventually get cams and ITBs then I would say it is worth the outlay.

 

[BenR]

EFI tech systems are indeed the b****cks up there with pectel and better than motec (which is over rated imo).

Expensive though.

 

[MarkM]

EFI tech systems are indeed the b****cks up there with pectel and better than motec (which is over rated imo).

Expensive though.

Over a grand? Can it use the same sensors and loom that I already have?

 

[BenR]

Dont know exact pricing for that model.

It will be able to use sensors, but the loom will have to be adapted at least for the pinouts and possibly the voltage supply/lowside setup it runs.

 

[EFIOZ]

I believe the UK price is around 650 quid and you can use whatever sensors you like with it. It utilises the standard 60-2 trigger pattern as well. We've done quad throttle cars with the Euro1 so adapting a Euro4 should be a cinch.

Give Ole and Russell a call at OBR in Southampton for more info if yur in the UK.

 

[Adey.]

live mapping isnt really an issue as long as youve got data logging and a det sensor, just takes longer