Lots of brake related questions, all in one thread.

[GabrielKnight]

Standard vs uprated brake pads

Whats the difference / best to go for?

I'm guessing that uprated = stop quicker, but wear out quicker? :S
What sort of difference are we talking about on both counts?

Are uprated road-legal?

 

[Diesel_Power]

Re: Standard vs uprated brake pads

Whats the difference / best to go for?

Driver preference, e.g. instant bite, progressive etc.

I'm guessing that uprated = stop quicker, but wear out quicker?

No.

What sort of difference are we talking about on both counts?

So many that i could be here all day explaining so id recommend you have a browse to get a better understanding of whats available and buy some pads that you think would suit your driving style.

Are uprated road-legal?

Majority of commercially available pads are yes.

 

[GabrielKnight]

Re: Standard vs uprated brake pads

Re. Questions about the difference of 'uprated brake pads' and the response:

<So many that i could be here all day explaining so id recommend you have a browse to get a better understanding of whats available and buy some pads that you think would suit your driving style.>

Well, I did Google 'uprated brakes' with various keywords like 'what is?' but it just displayed page after page of adverts. Do you have a link please?

 

[GabrielKnight]

One standard, one well good. Put the well good brake system on front or back?!

<Show workings please!>

 

[Fred@BTM]

Re: One standard, one well good. Put the well good brake system on front or back?!

eh?

 

[cat171]

Re: One standard, one well good. Put the well good brake system on front or back?!

Better brakes on the front of the car as they do the majority of the work, the rears don't do that much.

- was that what you were asking ?

 

[GabrielKnight]

Re: One standard, one well good. Put the well good brake system on front or back?!

Better brakes on the front of the car as they do the majority of the work, the rears don't do that much.

- was that what you were asking ?

That's great thanks. So plain disks on rear and drilled / grooved disks on front would be the right way round.

 

[cat171]

Re: One standard, one well good. Put the well good brake system on front or back?!

Yes, assuming you have discs on the rear of your car & not drums ??

 

[Funky Muppet]

Re: One standard, one well good. Put the well good brake system on front or back?!

Better brakes on the front of the car as they do the majority of the work, the rears don't do that much.

- was that what you were asking ?

That's great thanks. So plain disks on rear and drilled / grooved disks on front would be the right way round.

grooved discs on front, not drilled ( as in drilled all the way through, part drilled don't have the same potential problems as fully drilled discs do)

 

[GabrielKnight]

Re: One standard, one well good. Put the well good brake system on front or back?!

<Yes, assuming you have discs on the rear of your car & not drums ??>

Ah, trying to find that out in another thread!

<grooved discs on front, not drilled ( as in drilled all the way through, part drilled don't have the same potential problems as fully drilled discs do)>

That's helpful, thanks. Fully drilled disks wear down the pads much quicker I understand?

 

[Funky Muppet]

Re: One standard, one well good. Put the well good brake system on front or back?!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_brake

knock yourself out

 

[GabrielKnight]

Re: One standard, one well good. Put the well good brake system on front or back?!

I'd read that general info in detail already, but there wasn't enough for me to base my buying decisions / performance / safety on alone. Gettin' loads of helpful info here tho, thanks!

 

[GabrielKnight]

Any point upgrading to performance slotted brake disks if standard ones are okay?

Is the performance difference worth £100+ or is it better to spend money elsewhere on the car and wait until they need changing?

 

[christian rea]

Re: Any point upgrading to performance slotted brake disks if standard ones are okay?

depends what your driving is like and what clio uve got id say

 

[msa197]

Re: Any point upgrading to performance slotted brake disks if standard ones are okay?

Get some brembo disc plain discs, they are cheap and upto the job easily just decide on your pads.

 

[Maxx]

Re: Any point upgrading to performance slotted brake disks if standard ones are okay?

Get some braided brake lines aswell as theyre ment to improve things too

 

[GabrielKnight]

Re: Standard vs uprated brake pads

*bump*

 

[DrR]

Re: Standard vs uprated brake pads

IMO just stick with stock untill they are worn, then just get some Brembo discs and some uprated pads, got EBC green stuff in mine, do the job, been round the ring and had no problems.

 

[GabrielKnight]

Re: Standard vs uprated brake pads

Sigh. Could someone please just sum up in a paragraph what uprated brakes are (or post an informative link from any reliable source) so I can make my own decision re. my car based on some substance. I appreciate the responses so far but there's sometimes too much 'advice' and general opinion but not enough solid information on this site. Thanks.

 

[Henry]

Re: Standard vs uprated brake pads

trying to help here; what are you trying to achieve by uprating your brakes?

there are lots of things you can be doing to improve your brakes but you will alter their feel in doing so.

if all you're doing is looking to replace the discs and pads with 'performance' items once the originals have worn away, all you need to be worrying about is choosing a pair of suitable discs and a pair of suitable pads.

 

[GabrielKnight]

Re: Standard vs uprated brake pads

I just notice that brakes are available in 'standard' or 'uprated', so simply want to know the adv/disadv of each, without opinion of whether anyone thinks they would be suitable for my car or not.

I'm sorry but why does everything have to become a tedious advice-fest where everyone tries to second guess what people are 'trying to achieve'. Please just sumarise the adv/disadv between standard and uprated brakes ffs!

 

[Fred@BTM]

Re: Standard vs uprated brake pads

standard are ok
uprated are better (more bite, can handle heat better, can handle sustained heat)

^thats about it

 

[GabrielKnight]

Re: Standard vs uprated brake pads

Thanks Fred. So, on the flipside, what are the disadvantages of uprated (that stops most people from buying them instead)?! Good grief, this is hard work.: (

Incredible post count btw, must be the highest?

 

[Fred@BTM]

Re: Standard vs uprated brake pads

2nd highest

disadvantages in my eyes are zero

if however you are very very precious, then you may not like the noise some (not all) pads make, they can squeal a bit

some pads have very harsh brake dust that sticks to your wheels and paint, again doesn't bother me, it can clean off but you need industial strength acids and stuff

^thats only on the top end race stuff

stuff like ferodo DS2500's are fine

 

[GabrielKnight]

Re: Standard vs uprated brake pads

Thanks. While I've been Googling brake pads, I've read that some brake pads should only be used for racing because they take time to warm up (a chemical reaction only occurs at higher speeds) and won't usually perform well under normal street conditions.

Are 'uprated pads' the same thing as these sort of racing-only performance brake pads or should the two not be confused?

<2nd highest>

Increase your post count here, lol!

 

[GabrielKnight]

Re: Standard vs uprated brake pads

I've finally found a great article here:
http://www.fiestaturbo.com/articles/brakes/

From what I now understand, the term 'uprated' in this instance is a generic term that represents any kind of upgrade to any part of the braking system that deviates from the standard? So this might encompass anything from performance disks, to fast road or racing pads, to big brake kits.

 

[MarkCup]

Re: Standard vs uprated brake pads

Standard road pads stop you fine. Once or twice.

Uprated pads (plus uprated anything else in the braking system) means you can stop again, and again, and again, and again, and again without the fade you get with standard pads...which is why it's a popular option if you take your car on track.

 

[Rob Clark]

Re: Standard vs uprated brake pads

You can either uprate pads or pads + discs
Normal dayto day use it is very unlikely you will find a limit of 'normal pads' unless they get very hot.
However on a trackday you probably will.
During sustained heavy braking both your pads + brake lines will heat up. When standard pads get very hot they 'fade' meaning your pressing the pedal but your not stopping anywhere near like you should be due to heat comprimising the pad. The solution, changepads. however a decend pad will quite happily eat a standard disc for breakfast as the pad is harder than the disc, that solution is to replace both pad + disc which a fair amount do.
Then you have a pad+disc that match and stop you well.
Downside to the above is possibly cost depending on your budget, pad screech, dust and a gradual braking increase or on/off braking.
Only other difference is the brake lines. brake fluid along with pads gets warm during heavy braking and when the fluid boils it can expand and rubber sections of your brake lines. As standard these are the flexible bits on both front wheels and just in front of the left rear wheel on 1*2's. The solution is to change the rubber hose sections for metal clad hose sections.

All the above make for a sustantially better braking system

 

[Fred@BTM]

Re: Standard vs uprated brake pads

Thanks. While I've been Googling brake pads, I've read that some brake pads should only be used for racing because they take time to warm up (a chemical reaction only occurs at higher speeds) and won't usually perform well under normal street conditions.

Are 'uprated pads' the same thing as these sort of racing-only performance brake pads or should the two not be confused?

<2nd highest>

Increase your post count here, lol!

not true when it comes to clios, i use full on race pads everyday, just don't drive like a bell for the first 10min (same goes for any brakes)

 

[GabrielKnight]

Re: Standard vs uprated brake pads

Thanks. While I've been Googling brake pads, I've read that some brake pads should only be used for racing because they take time to warm up (a chemical reaction only occurs at higher speeds) and won't usually perform well under normal street conditions.

Are 'uprated pads' the same thing as these sort of racing-only performance brake pads or should the two not be confused?

<2nd highest>

Increase your post count here, lol!

not true when it comes to clios, i use full on race pads everyday, just don't drive like a bell for the first 10min (same goes for any brakes)

What Clio ya drivin' Fred?
What brakes ya yoosin'?

 

[TeZ]

Re: Standard vs uprated brake pads

1.2

 

[Funky Muppet]

Re: Standard vs uprated brake pads

You can either uprate pads or pads + discs
Normal dayto day use it is very unlikely you will find a limit of 'normal pads' unless they get very hot.
However on a trackday you probably will.
During sustained heavy braking both your pads + brake lines will heat up. When standard pads get very hot they 'fade' meaning your pressing the pedal but your not stopping anywhere near like you should be due to heat comprimising the pad. The solution, changepads. however a decend pad will quite happily eat a standard disc for breakfast as the pad is harder than the disc, that solution is to replace both pad + disc which a fair amount do.
Then you have a pad+disc that match and stop you well.
Downside to the above is possibly cost depending on your budget, pad screech, dust and a gradual braking increase or on/off braking.
Only other difference is the brake lines. brake fluid along with pads gets warm during heavy braking and when the fluid boils it can expand and rubber sections of your brake lines. As standard these are the flexible bits on both front wheels and just in front of the left rear wheel on 1*2's. The solution is to change the rubber hose sections for metal clad hose sections.

All the above make for a sustantially better braking system

I thought brake fade was due to the pads "gassing" :S ... drilled or grooved discs stop this by having a place for the gas build up to escape

and... i thought braided hoses stop the brake pipe expanding by simple constriction... the pipe is expending not because of the heat of the brake fluid, but simply the pressure it's under

 

[White16valver]

Re: Standard vs uprated brake pads

Brake pads have a certain operating temperature to work within, governed by the materials they are made up of (the compound, I guess).

'Normal' road cars will have pads that warm up and 'bite' quickly (as that's what Joe Public would want and expect) but will then go over their operating temperature quickly too as they're not designed for hard and repetitive stops.

Uprated pads will have a similar or slightly less 'bite' when cold due to the different compound (which may mean that you have to plan for this when driving, and allow slightly more stopping distance) but when they get up to temperature following repeated braking they will get into their operating range (which will be higher than a 'normal' pad) and will stay in that range, rather than overheating. This means that the pad will continue to stop time and time again, until you've given it some serious abuse, fred-style lol.

 

[Henry]

Re: Standard vs uprated brake pads

unless you're a very spirited road driver (read: nutter) or are using the car for track days, in my opinion, uprated pads/discs are a waste of money. even Greenstuffs need a couple of decent high speed shoves to get them up to the kind of temperature at which they're doing anything more than a standard pad and you can't maintain that temperature on the road without having to continue making judicious use of the brakes.

they're essential on a track car and it's entirely your choice if you want to spend 2-3 times more than you would on standard replacement parts to buy an 'advantage' that you'll likely never use in a road car.
.
Gabriel - you're right, this is hard work; but people are being patient and you're getting good advice from a lot of different people.

 

[White16valver]

Re: Standard vs uprated brake pads

unless you're a very spirited road driver (read: nutter) or are using the car for track days, in my opinion, uprated pads/discs are a waste of money. even Greenstuffs need a couple of decent high speed shoves to get them up to the kind of temperature at which they're doing anything more than a standard pad and you can't maintain that temperature on the road without having to continue making judicious use of the brakes.

they're essential on a track car and it's entirely your choice if you want to spend 2-3 times more than you would on standard replacement parts to buy an 'advantage' that you'll likely never use in a road car.

I guess you do have a point there, but I went for uprated because I occasionally have a 'spirited' drive, and I wanted to know that I'd have the equipment to do so.

Plus, even at fairly moderate speeds, uprated ones will offer a better braking experience into something like a series of roundabouts on a bypass

 

[Charlieboy]

Re: Standard vs uprated brake pads

I've heard really good things about this combo and not just from this site either:-

Brembo Max Discs and Mintex 1144 Fast Road/Track Pads.

 

[Fred@BTM]

Re: Standard vs uprated brake pads

not true when it comes to clios, i use full on race pads everyday, just don't drive like a bell for the first 10min (same goes for any brakes)

What Clio ya drivin' Fred?
What brakes ya yoosin'?

V6 and a 1.2 cough cough

pagid blues and ds2500's

 

[edde]

Re: Standard vs uprated brake pads

Thanks Fred. So, on the flipside, what are the disadvantages of uprated (that stops most people from buying them instead)?! Good grief, this is hard work.: (

Incredible post count btw, must be the highest?

He's a part timer.

On the flip side they can squeek when cold harder race pads get worse and worse then there the extra cost plus many of them arn't road legal. Plus they were the disks quicker. Plus there insurance who should be told.

 

[Fred@BTM]

Re: Standard vs uprated brake pads

^you're just mr negative these days!

 

[White16valver]

Re: Standard vs uprated brake pads

Plus there insurance who should be told.

Strangely, I told mine about them and they said the only thing they were bothered about really was the uprated disks!