Loud clunk when braking and accelerating low speed - Video attached

[MorroN]

Hi Guys,

I had another thread regarding noises on full lock which seem to have been cured with the top mount spacer and new ARB bushes. Since then I have been getting a loud knock on braking and accelerating usually at low speeds but may just not be able to hear at high speed. When it clunks I can feel a small jerk in the wheel. When I floor it in 5th at 30/40mph I get a bit of a buzzing sound (CV joint maybe?) The gearbox has been whining for a long time but have been told not worry about it. Sounds like something rocking back on acceleration and forwards on braking, I cant get it to do it on braking twice without it doing it on acceleration etc

Things i've checked

Mounts - Engine and gearbox mount changed 8 months ago - Febi - I have a new dogbone to go on
Wishbones - Changed 5 months ago - Ebay jobbies
Top Mounts - 1 month ago - Febi with M.A.D Spacer
ARB bush - Genuine 1 week ago
Everything is tight aas far as I can see - Can't get to gearbox mount bottom nut to check, possibly this?
Bit of play in brake pad carrier on both sides, noise seems to be coming from nearside though

The above makes me think maybe gearbox/cv joint rather than suspension?

Take a listen:


Thanks in advance, a real head scratcher

 

[bashracing]

Bolt on wheel spacers ?

 

[MorroN]

Bolt on wheel spacers ?

Got 20mm hucentric spacers on the front

 

[bashracing]

check all wheel nuts/bolts

 

[STEVE.M]

Got 20mm hucentric spacers on the front

Are you certain they are seated flat against the disc?

I found that the grub screws that come with Brembo discs sit proud of the disc, preventing the spacer from seating correctly.

 

[MorroN]

Are you certain they are seated flat against the disc?

I found that the grub screws that come with Brembo discs sit proud of the disc, preventing the spacer from seating correctly.

Checked all wheel bolts and torqued to 110nm. Dont have a jack with me atm but going to drop car at garage next week and will ask them to check if spacers sitting flat or to remove completely when investigating Theyve been on for a long time with no issues previously however.

 

[STEVE.M]

Checked all wheel bolts and torqued to 110nm. Dont have a jack with me atm but going to drop car at garage next week and will ask them to check if spacers sitting flat or to remove completely when investigating Theyve been on for a long time with no issues previously however.

It won`t be that then.

With your foot on the brake pedal, with the car stationary and the engine running on idle, try selecting 1st gear & then reverse gear, slipping the clutch, but not

enough to stall the engine to see if that makes the knock.

 

[MorroN]

It won`t be that then.

With your foot on the brake pedal, with the car stationary and the engine running on idle, try selecting 1st gear & then reverse gear, slipping the clutch, but not

enough to stall the engine to see if that makes the knock.

Ive just been out to try this. Using the foot brake and just the clutch I cant replicate the noise. I tried using the handbrake and a bit of gas and I can’t replicate it either, or at least I cant hear anything over the handbrake creaking!

Also tried stalling the engine but that did nothing either

 

[bashracing]

brake calliper bolts loose ?
strut to hub bolts loose ?

 

[Louis]

Did you change the balljoints when replacing the wishbones? Check the 2 nut/bolts underneath.

 

[STEVE.M]

Ive just been out to try this. Using the foot brake and just the clutch I cant replicate the noise. I tried using the handbrake and a bit of gas and I can’t replicate it either, or at least I cant hear anything over the handbrake creaking!

Also tried stalling the engine but that did nothing either

Sort of rules out drive shaft CV`s & the splines.

Guess you will have the garage get it up in the air and give it a good going over with a pry bar.

 

[STEVE.M]

Did you change the balljoints when replacing the wishbones? Check the 2 nut/bolts underneath.

They come with the wishbones, but then perhaps someone in China forgot to tighten them.

 

[MorroN]

They come with the wishbones, but then perhaps someone in China forgot to tighten them.

Sort of rules out drive shaft CV`s & the splines.

Guess you will have the garage get it up in the air and give it a good going over with a pry bar.

Did you change the balljoints when replacing the wishbones? Check the 2 nut/bolts underneath.

Ball joints came attached to the wishbones, I checked the pinch bolt and the bolts holding them to the wishbone and they all seem okay. No visible play in them when wiggling with a big screw driver either.

Didn't check the strut to hub bolts but caliper carrier bolts are tight, I didn't check the caliper to hub bolts however.

Im thinking that either inner ARB is loose, a wishbone/ steering rack bush/ balljoint is fucked or the wishbones are just bad quality or the lower nut on the upper gearbox mount is loose the gearbox rocking back and forth or maybe a more serious gearbox fault.

Its going in Monday, I’l mention all of this to them and report back. Thanks for your help everyone

 

[STEVE.M]

.

Didn't check the strut to hub bolts or the caliper to hub bolts however.

These are strong candidates, along with ball joint/ hub pinch bolts.

Are all the wishbone to subframe bolts fitted with heads at the rear, and the nuts at the front, as the rear mounting holes are larger than the front one`s, to

accommodate the shoulder on the bolts.

I`m not sure of the consequence if reversed, but it`s worth checking.

 

[MorroN]

These are strong candidates, along with ball joint/ hub pinch bolts.

Are all the wishbone to subframe bolts fitted with heads at the rear, and the nuts at the front, as the rear mounting holes are larger than the front one`s, to

accommodate the shoulder on the bolts.

I`m not sure of the consequence if reversed, but it`s worth checking.

Thats a great shout, I will check this out tomorrow. So in the above image left to the rear, right to the front? Is this the same on both sides or mirrored?

I will see if I can buy another jack and inspect the other bolts you mentioned.

Thanks

 

[STEVE.M]

Thats a great shout, I will check this out tomorrow. So in the above image left to the rear, right to the front? Is this the same on both sides or mirrored?

I will see if I can buy another jack and inspect the other bolts you mentioned.

Thanks

Yes, left to the rear with the shaft of bolt running towards the front of the vehicle.

Same both sides.

 

[MorroN]

Yes, left to the rear with the shaft of bolt running towards the front of the vehicle.

Same both sides.

BOTH strut to hub bolts were facing the wrong way, I have since turned them around so the nut is front facing and the bolt head is rear facing.

I checked the caliper to hub bolts on both sides, which were tight. I checked the track rod ends which were both tight also.

I tightened the balljoint to wishbone bolts on the near side where the clunk seemed to be coming from, they weren't loose but I guess there's a huge amount of force going through them so I've done them to approx 100Nm. On the offside, the outer of the two ball joint to hub bolts wont seem to tighten at all. Even when held with a spanner it just spins and spins. Its pretty tight and I have to put a fair bit of force in but it will not tighten. Could the threads be knackered?

Have taken the car for a drive and for now I cannot hear the noise at all ?

 

[STEVE.M]

BOTH strut to hub bolts were facing the wrong way, I have since turned them around so the nut is front facing and the bolt head is rear facing.

I checked the caliper to hub bolts on both sides, which were tight. I checked the track rod ends which were both tight also.

I tightened the balljoint to wishbone bolts on the near side where the clunk seemed to be coming from, they weren't loose but I guess there's a huge amount of force going through them so I've done them to approx 100Nm. On the offside, the outer of the two ball joint to hub bolts wont seem to tighten at all. Even when held with a spanner it just spins and spins. Its pretty tight and I have to put a fair bit of force in but it will not tighten. Could the threads be knackered?

Have taken the car for a drive and for now I cannot hear the noise at all ?

You seem to have misunderstood what I said which was the subframe / wishbone bolts (no 4 ) should face the front, like so

https://partsouq.com/en/catalog/gen...VEAAAAALvrwdw$&vid=1247&cid=75627&uid=3249&q=


The shock absorber bolts ( no 3 ) should face the rear, so you have now placed them the wrong way round

https://partsouq.com/en/catalog/gen...2MAAAAABFyq0A$&vid=1247&cid=75628&uid=3262&q=

It sounds as if the outer RH ball joint bolt/nut has stripped, ( no 2 ) take one off your old wishbones that you replaced.

If you threw them away ( You never know when you might need them, so don`t ) it is a 12mm bolt on the Sports. (10mm on non Sports)'

https://partsouq.com/en/catalog/gen...EwAAAAA2dh6Kg$&vid=1247&cid=75627&uid=3247&q=

 

[MorroN]

You seem to have misunderstood what I said which was the subframe / wishbone bolts (no 4 ) should face the front, like so

https://partsouq.com/en/catalog/genuine/unit?c=Renault&ssd=$*KwFUYHFgEggFIyo0Fy5MBQwYOD8hUF9SU0FSXyZWHggLACBSDgEbV15UWBgKBQxKUkICAiAsVVZTU35PQAMJFQIJAwUwUF5ZJipTUBgJDxJNcRxUU1cfFgYSB1FFbStUUR8TBA8GWnFjVVZQU1dRHhdWVW1XGRcIVCdUUQ8FHVZTVVEAAAAALvrwdw$&vid=1247&cid=75627&uid=3249&q=


The shock absorber bolts ( no 3 ) should face the rear, so you have now placed them the wrong way round

https://partsouq.com/en/catalog/genuine/unit?c=Renault&ssd=$*KwFmUkNSIDo3ERgGJRx-Nz4qCg0TYm1gYXNgbRRkLDo5MhJgPDMtYW1iZCo4Nz54YHAwMBIeZ2dhYkx9cjE7JzA7MTcCYmxrFBhhYSo7PSB_Qy5mYWUtJDQgNWN3XxlmYC0hNj00aENRZ2diYmVlLCVkZ19lKyU6ZhVmYz03L2RhZ2MAAAAABFyq0A$&vid=1247&cid=75628&uid=3262&q=

It sounds as if the outer RH ball joint bolt/nut has stripped, ( no 2 ) take one off your old wishbones that you replaced.

If you threw them away ( You never know when you might need them, so don`t ) it is a 12mm bolt on the Sports. (10mm on non Sports)'

https://partsouq.com/en/catalog/genuine/unit?c=Renault&ssd=$*KwFJfWx9DxUYPjcpCjNRGBEFJSI8TUJPTlxPQjtLAxUWHT1PEh0FSU9PSQUXGBFXT18fHz0xSEtOTmNSXR4UCB8UHhgtTUNEOzdOTQUUEg9QbAFJTkoCCxsPGkxYcDZJTAIOGRIbR2x-SEtOTEpKAwpLSHBLBAoVSTpJTBIYAEtOSEwAAAAA2dh6Kg$&vid=1247&cid=75627&uid=3247&q=

Haha well thats quite a spectacular misunderstanding. Is the strut to hub bolt direction likely to do any damage?

I guess I can swap them back easy enough when I check the wishbone bolts haha!

I don't have the old wishbones, they were changed a good 6 months ago now. Its going into the garage for a service Monday so will ask them to change the ball joint bolt then. Is it a standard size or renault only?

 

[STEVE.M]

Is it a standard size or renault only?

I`m afraid 12mm bolts are exclusive to Renault.

92001 is Kawasaki for bolt.

Take a guess what the 12 & the 65 stand for.

 

[MorroN]

I`m afraid 12mm bolts are exclusive to Renault.

92001 is Kawasaki for bolt.

Take a guess what the 12 & the 65 stand for.

Not sure if im an idiot and thats god level sarcasm or if im just an idiot...

The offending bolt is holding the ball joint assembly to the wishbone, looks like a bog standard bolt:

 

[STEVE.M]

.

The offending bolt is holding the ball joint assembly to the wishbone, looks like a bog standard bolt:

View attachment 1400790

It is a bog standard 12mm bolt, 25 or 30 mm long, cannot remember exactly.

 

[MorroN]

It is a bog standard 12mm bolt, 25 or 30 mm long, cannot remember exactly.

Thanks so much for your help Steve, I owe you a beer.

Will report back when I get the car back Monday.

 

[STEVE.M]

Thanks so much for your help Steve, I owe you a beer.

Will report back when I get the car back Monday.

No problem, by the way, the partsouq links I sent you are live, not a page print off, have fun.

 

[MorroN]

No problem, by the way, the partsouq links I sent you are live, not a page print off, have fun.

Hi Guys,

Got the car back from the garage today they have serviced it, new brake fluid, braded brake lines and fitted a new dogbone mount. They also replaced the bolt on the wishbone to ball joint and checked all the other bolts you mentioned earlier.

On my drive back home I noticed a horrific grinding noise, it happens when I engage the clutch quickly or poke the accelerator quickly. My old Dogbone had been 'sikaflexed' like a polybush but the new one is standard aftermarket and was noticeably floppier than the one that came off. Could this be allowing engine movement causing the noise?

 

[STEVE.M]

Hi Guys,

Got the car back from the garage today they have serviced it, new brake fluid, braded brake lines and fitted a new dogbone mount. They also replaced the bolt on the wishbone to ball joint and checked all the other bolts you mentioned earlier.

On my drive back home I noticed a horrific grinding noise, it happens when I engage the clutch quickly or poke the accelerator quickly. My old Dogbone had been 'sikaflexed' like a polybush but the new one is standard aftermarket and was noticeably floppier than the one that came off. Could this be allowing engine movement causing the noise?

Sorry, the volume is too low on the video to hear anything.

I`d check all the wheel bolts are present & tight before taking it back to the garage tomorrow.

You are not being particularly heavy footed there, and it should have been picked up on a road test, and investigated,


Sorry, you`re not having much luck.

 

[MorroN]

Sorry, the volume is too low on the video to hear anything.

I`d check all the wheel bolts are present & tight before taking it back to the garage tomorrow.

You are not being particularly heavy footed there, and it should have been picked up on a road test, and investigated,


Sorry, you`re not having much luck.

Will check the wheel bolts.

Best way I can describe it is a low creaky, rumbling, grinding sound when engaging the clutch. Its also present in first and second and low revs when I boot it, sounds like a blown wheel bearing a little bit. Its hard to hear because I have an induction kit on and it makes a similar sort of rumble. I'll take that off and see if it makes it more obvious.

you can hear it better here:

 

[STEVE.M]

Will check the wheel bolts.

Best way I can describe it is a low creaky, rumbling, grinding sound when engaging the clutch. Its also present in first and second and low revs when I boot it, sounds like a blown wheel bearing a little bit. Its hard to hear because I have an induction kit on and it makes a similar sort of rumble. I'll take that off and see if it makes it more obvious.

you can hear it better here:

Only just I`m afraid.

Best to go back the garage I think, and hope they have left something loose.

Does the car reverse OK?

Without any judder?

 

[MorroN]

Only just I`m afraid.

Best to go back the garage I think, and hope they have left something loose.

Does the car reverse OK?

Without any judder?

Yeah it seems to be fine. To make it judder like that you need to really give it a bit of welly and release the clutch quickly.

Will do, hopefully nothing serious! Will ask them to put other dogbone back on and hope for best.

Tom

 

[STEVE.M]

Yeah it seems to be fine. To make it judder like that you need to really give it a bit of welly and release the clutch quickly.

Will do, hopefully nothing serious! Will ask them to put other dogbone back on and hope for best.

Tom

A bit of welly as in reversing up a slope?

Has the box also stopped whining and gone silent?

I only ask, as I nursed a whining box for 6k miles until it`s sudden death.

 

[MorroN]

A bit of welly as in reversing up a slope?

Has the box also stopped whining and gone silent?

I only ask, as I nursed a whining box for 6k miles until it`s sudden death.

No forwards, I cant replicate it in reverse im too scared to lose control! Medium throttle going up hill and releasing the clutch quickly but not fast enough to just spin the wheels. Will do it on flat and down hill too, I guess uphill just puts everything under the most stress.


The box is still whining but has been for a loooong time now. Seems strange to go now without ever doing this before. Fingers crossed

 

[STEVE.M]

No forwards, I cant replicate it in reverse im too scared to lose control! Medium throttle going up hill and releasing the clutch quickly but not fast enough to just spin the wheels. Will do it on flat and down hill too, I guess uphill just puts everything under the most stress.


The box is still whining but has been for a loooong time now. Seems strange to go now without ever doing this before. Fingers crossed

Spin the wheels?

Unless your running a turbo or supercharger, a tyre upgrade is in order?

 

[MorroN]

Spin the wheels?

Unless your running a turbo or supercharger, a tyre upgrade is in order?

No turbo but I do have a an induction kit and a Stig air freshener, essentially the same HP gain. ?

So returned it to the garage, the mechanic struggled to replicate the noise so I took him out for a drive. He agreed it didn't sound right and I asked to swap the old dogbone back on for me (which he did for free). With both side by side it became clear what the issue is. The replacement QH part's bolt hole on the larger bushing is approx 2mm larger than the bolt hole on the genuine renault bushing. Therefore the bolt was tight and holding everything steady but under really heavy load the bush could move and grind on the bolt making the noise!

My old sikaflexed dogbone is back on and the car is running perfectly at last.

So to sum up for anyone reading, first noise was very very slightly loose ball joint to wishbone bolts one of which was cross threaded on from the factory.

The second noise was an aftermarket dogbone with an incorrect bolt hole size.

Thanks so much for your help again!