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Lovely "Custom" Ford Puma
- Thread starter Dan@M.A.D
- Start date
Yes thats exactly what I said. Go and drive a normal 1.7 puma and a FRP back to back and the difference is far less obvious between them than driving a 1.6 clio and a 172 back to back.
110bhp to 170bhp is a hell of a jump! Twice the jump that the puma has in fact.
All the ST cars are pretty uninspiring compared to a 172. The only decent fords ALL have RS badges IMHO (although not all RS's are great either by any means!)
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The FRP wasn't an exercise in churning out mass-produced hot-hatches though.
Any day of the week I would trade the 172 for an FRP, they're just far more desirable, rarer and wont devalue much further for these reasons alone, let alone any others.
Lap times are all great and everything, but these aren't track cars, they're road cars, and "in da twistiez" I know I'd much rather be in a 450% Fiesta than a 200% Clio.
Any day of the week I would trade the 172 for an FRP, they're just far more desirable, rarer and wont devalue much further for these reasons alone, let alone any others.
Lap times are all great and everything, but these aren't track cars, they're road cars, and "in da twistiez" I know I'd much rather be in a 450% Fiesta than a 200% Clio.
What was it an attempt at?
Serious question, as Ive yet to really see the merit of them from fords point of view.
I dont think they really got noticed enough to generally elevate the publics perception of the puma, they didnt sell well at all, in fact IIRC they had to give half of them away to mangers in ford just to shift the damn things as the public simply didnt want them enough to pay for them.
As far as I am aware they were designated ST160 internally as plans were to launch the ST brand with them, but then when they failed to make the 160bhp and just didnt really come out well enough ford decided to hold back the ST branding for later.
They lost money on the project as well.
I think overall, from ford's point of view, it was all a bit of a fcuk up really TBH
Financially it would make sense, I'd swap any car for one that sells for twice as much and then just flog it and buy the 172 back, lol, but as a car I cant say I would make the same swap.
The 172 is a nicer road car IMHO, its got decent aircon, comfy seats, gives reasonable economy, I dont really see any advantage to the fr puma as a road car, and its harder to source parts for, especially panels if it gets carpark dinged etc.
Dont get me wrong, im not a hater, I think they are pleasant enough cars, but just not what gally makes them out to be.
Quite gutted Itrsport is no longer available, great artcile with the DC2, 172 PH1 and the Frp.
Bare in mind I hate pub figures and track times these were the times around Pembrey...
Another note, the Clio laps had to be cut short due to the brakes almost being on fire. That was from the article.
Wait a minute there sweetcheeks, I don't make them out to be anything. I've said it since I bought it, most people need to drive them to see what the "fuss" is about. I'm not going to preach about it to anyone. I know it has millions of faults and there are a hundred better cars out there, clearly you keep ignoring that point.
It is a better road car, so is a Fiesta a better road car.
The only place the Frp falls down is the comfort aspect, it's solid, properly solid. It has aircon and a heated front windscreen hardly a stripped out racer. I drive mine daily and don't have a problem with it.
Bare in mind I hate pub figures and track times these were the times around Pembrey...
Another note, the Clio laps had to be cut short due to the brakes almost being on fire. That was from the article.
Wait a minute there sweetcheeks, I don't make them out to be anything. I've said it since I bought it, most people need to drive them to see what the "fuss" is about. I'm not going to preach about it to anyone. I know it has millions of faults and there are a hundred better cars out there, clearly you keep ignoring that point.
It is a better road car, so is a Fiesta a better road car.
The only place the Frp falls down is the comfort aspect, it's solid, properly solid. It has aircon and a heated front windscreen hardly a stripped out racer. I drive mine daily and don't have a problem with it.
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Pembrey is a tiny little circuit that really doesnt make much use of the power difference but gives great opportunity for the brakes on the puma to really influence things due to the number of very slow corners (the brakes are the one way in which the puma outperforms the ITR and 172) I wouldnt read anywhere near as much into that very specific test as you did other than that the puma has better brakes as standard.
Thats all of 150 quid to fix on the 172 with some better pads though.
Thats all of 150 quid to fix on the 172 with some better pads though.
Thats fine, if I ever spend page after page on here about it being a good idea like Gally spends posting page after page about the fact that Jesus drives an FRP then you should do what I do and reply with your counter views to the same extent.
Its a discussion forum, people will discuss things, Gally's feelings are clear too but I dont ask him to pipe down just cause I think he wears rose tinted specs every time he looks at the puma, he's entitled to express his views as much as he wants, as am i.
I guess it depends on what experience you have of them.
a mate of mine had one, it was awesome.
Gally has one, he thinks it's awesome.
lots of Clio owners wouldn't know one if it transformed into a robot and kicked them in the plums.
The FRP was a "proper" halo model, like the Focus RS, and Cosworths before. Again, unlike R.S. Clios, which are just Clios with big engines.
On balance, the Clio equivalent is the V6
Oh so we're modifying them now. Brilliant. Like I say I couldn't care less about lap times it just demonstrates it's cornering ability over it's lack of power.
I don't have to defend the car Chip. It is what it is and does what it does. But you're making statements that no one seems to agree with yet you claim everyone thinks the Frp is nothing but a tarted up Puma.
I don't have to defend the car Chip. It is what it is and does what it does. But you're making statements that no one seems to agree with yet you claim everyone thinks the Frp is nothing but a tarted up Puma.
Yeah the hatchets hairpin and brooklands hairpin are famous for being corners you can take flat out.
Im struggling to think of any other uk circuit of a similar length that tests the brakes so hard by containing 2 hairpins.
That's your perogative, but having done Pembrey recently I can tell you its hard on the brakes, if you dont want to believe that then feel free, but it doesnt change it from being the truth.
To an extent; i agree the FRP was a bit of a flop as a production car. Didn't sell, overpriced, underpowered (Slightly) but not majorly! But when has that ever been an factor when buying a car. I bought a Clio V6 knowning what the press thought of it. 50% love it, 50% think its a heap! (Shares many similarities to the FRP)
Gallys passion is fair play in this instance...I share a similar view when people spout crap about the V6...inc yourself!
No it demonstrates the brakes are much better.
Ive not said its nothing but a "tarted up" puma, 4 pot brakes, a wider track, and a 25% or so increase in power are significant changes. I just dont think they were significant enough to justify the price they sold at new, or how you personally view them as so awesome, and the fact that ford had to give half of them away to get them out the door kind of backs up what most of the public felt about them too even if 3 people in this thread now like them.
I've raced Pembrey. It is 85% flat out. I'll print out the PI spec for the datalogger later if you want!? Yes there is a hairpin which is incredibly sharp...Big deal, take that as your 15% that is not flat out.
Lol @ that.
I like cars that perform as well or better than the hype, thats why I love the clio 172, and am a bit indifferent towards the Clio v6 (which fell FAR short of renaults original claims) and the FRP which also fell short of fords original claims. Thats not "spouting crap" its just being objective and not sharing yours or gallys massively sentimental views thats all.
TBF though you don't have to appreciate it as much as Gally does in order for his views to be valid. He clearly loves his car. He hasn't said that you have to as well.
Yes, it was overpriced and undersold, but that's for the best.
firstly, it stops every chav having one.
secondly, it means that they're rare, and so wont keep losing money
finally, the insurance on them will be better than a 172 soon, providing yoof continue to roll clios through school playgrounds at the standard rate
firstly, it stops every chav having one.
secondly, it means that they're rare, and so wont keep losing money
finally, the insurance on them will be better than a 172 soon, providing yoof continue to roll clios through school playgrounds at the standard rate
I havent disputed the 85% flat out at all.
You seem to miss the point that if you are flat out on the throttle you probably arent testing the cars handling much at the time unlike what Gally thinks, as its not got enough pace to really push the handling limits and you also seem to be missing the point that if you are flat out but then have to come to almost an absolute stand still once and slow right down a second time all within a short lap then its how late you can get on the brakes that has a bigger influence on your laptimes than how hard the car accelerates. Pembrey involves lower vmax than places like combe, which means it doesnt give cars with a power advantage as much chance to shine.
He'll scoff at that but they have a lot more in common than people give them credit for.
Also I don't think the Frp is awesome, It's an underpowered 11 year old Puma but drive one with an open mind you'll see why me and the press I might add think it's such a special car.
Make up your mind mate, you've changed tack 3 times now. Now it's because thye didn't sell a lot? They were nearly 24k. I wouldn't expect them to sell either at that price. Especially when the TT and the new Subaru were released around the same time.
I knwo the history like the back of my hand, my Dad worked for People's when they were released and I think they sold 1, another couple were given to his bosses, one was actually given to the boss' daughter who I know. They were a flop. But they weren't a flop from a driving pov.
Agreed as a car to hold value their low sales volumes (under 300 sold to the open market IIRC and a couple of hundred more or less gifted to managers) is a massive plus point, as is the ford badge, all sporty fords tend to hold their values far better than other makes as they have a very enthusiastic following (I write for a ford magazine dont forget so its not like Im not aware of what the scene involves!) which helps bolster the prices of them.
welshname
ClioSport Club Member
What happened 
we were all getting along so well in the quiz thread...
we were all getting along so well in the quiz thread...Chip, you seem to be stating now that your views are pretty much fact? At least as far as sales are concerned, and I suppose you're right, but that has no impact on the passion people can have for their cars. If Gally loves his shed then do you think rolling out the sales statistics is going to give him a change of heart?
I havent scoffed at that, I can see the glaring similarities just as much as I can see the glaring differences.
I think you take too much notice of us journalists TBH, certainly more than I take, lol
I dont have a tack, was just discussing various aspects of the car, lack of straightline pace being one, and the silly price they had being another, its why they ended up cancelling half of production (im sure you'll correct me on the numbers but I vaguely recally it was meant to be 500 to UK and 500 to germany, and only 500 to the uk in the end?)
If they were priced the same as the 172, im sure they would have sold a lot better than at the silly price they were sold at, who knows if priced fairly like the escos was they might have matched its sales of 6K+ and still having waiting lists.
Ok then. If the Puma is underpowered and unable to find the limits of the handling. Then this is the exact opposite!! Too much power for the car? Surely?
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I dont have the press releases about what they were planning to hand so cant give you exact figures I'm afraid, but it was along the lines of upwards of 200bhp per tonne, IIRC it was something like 270bhp and 1200kg, a far cry from where they ended up.
Nice cars, so again dont think im against them, Im not, I just feel they dont quite live up to the hype thats all, first time I drove one it just wasnt anywhere near as good as I had expected it to be from the hype around it, hence I didnt buy it.
Is Castle Combe a tight track guys? It a spiritual home for the Frp and it seems to have some pretty quick laps round there.
I hate using track times but it's a great indication of the Frps handling if it's down on power yet can come out on top time and time again against it's rivals.
I hate using track times but it's a great indication of the Frps handling if it's down on power yet can come out on top time and time again against it's rivals.
My old man would probably agree with that point of view. He had one on order, drove one, and cancelled it. That's not my opinion, as I have never driven one, but clearly many people were disappointed.
I agree, thats absolutely far too much power for how badly a car running 195 wet tyres on the rear on a hot day that had turned to mush can handle. One of the rear drys got damaged earlier in the day so rather than just go home I decided to have a bit of a laugh trashing an old pair of wets round the circuit instead.
Even on the 225 drys its still a case of the engine when running at its most powerful (600bhp or so) was writing cheques that the chassis couldnt cash though, its deefinately over powered rather than under powered, but I quite enjoy driving cars that are a handful sometimes, where as our 172 and our F7R mk1 are the total opposite and both have a far better chassis than engine, our corsa is a reasonable match between the two, and the 3 door sierra is a handful like the nova is, when you have a few cars its nice to have a bit of variety IMHO
Wouldnt EVER claim my nova to be a great car though, go buy a lightly modded vx220 and you will utterly trounce it in every aspect, I just like playing around with it for something to do, not cause the end result is the best handling car ever, of course it isnt, its built by a bloke in a shed for a few grand not designed by lotus with a budget of millions like if I just went and bought a vx220.
What is IS though, and I probably need to let you have the keys some day before I'll get the point across is just horrendously good fun to drive, I challenge anyone to slide it around all over the place fighting to try and keep it on course and not have a smile on their face (or be dead of course, the reason manufacturers wouldnt ever sell something this loopy to the public!)
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Ive been out on track several years running in clios at RS combe and had no trouble at all with the FRPs TBH, although it may be that I was driving harder than them as TBH my car is a budget track hack that only exists to be driven hard where as they are in cherished examples.
If your going to RS combe this year I'll take you out in one of our clios when the FRPs are out and show you if you like mate
