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Mac or PC



  Weeman sucks ****
<<<<MAC for me. I was brought up on a mac and have used various machines from G4's to 5's and the notebooks. All work superb (for what I do) but now my job has brought me to the world of a crashing, ugly and messy OS.

Windows, I sh!t it... MAC FTFW!!
 
  Mitsubishi Colt
Luckily your above statement's wrong!
What part is wrong? That's it's crap?

Yep, although it's just my opinion!

I'm not swallowing any MS bull, but neither am I being convinced by Mac zealots and their pathetic adverts. My experience and those of just about everyone I know using Vista is spot on.... any who have had problems have been hardware related. The dicky RAM issue's a killer, as it's been fairly sensitive to install on machines that XP thinks are fine but where the RAM actually is duff. I've been running rock-solid stable for 18 months on various platforms though.

Driver support's been a bit poor in some cases, particularly ATI and Nvidia (more Nvidia) near the beginning.

What kind of instability and crashes are you getting though, as I'd be interested in seeing what would need to be done to resolve them.

Cheers,
UG
 

sn00p

ClioSport Club Member
  A blue one.
Yep, although it's just my opinion!

Yeah. I installed it once just before it released to check that there were no major compatability issues with our software, I checked both 32 & 64. I found a crap load of bugs in Vista 64 relating to 32 bit themed applications, I was rather suprised that I found so many. On the bright side, they'd finally managed to fix a problem relating to owner drawn variable height listboxes that had been around forever!

Once I'd completed my tests it got wiped (I never even bothered to activate it) and we kept on happily plodding along with XP...until now.

I'm not swallowing any MS bull, but neither am I being convinced by Mac zealots and their pathetic adverts. My experience and those of just about everyone I know using Vista is spot on.... any who have had problems have been hardware related. The dicky RAM issue's a killer, as it's been fairly sensitive to install on machines that XP thinks are fine but where the RAM actually is duff. I've been running rock-solid stable for 18 months on various platforms though.

The same machine has been running linux and a few other posix operating systems without a single issue!

Driver support's been a bit poor in some cases, particularly ATI and Nvidia (more Nvidia) near the beginning.

What kind of instability and crashes are you getting though, as I'd be interested in seeing what would need to be done to resolve them.

I now seem to have an amount of stability (it stayed up for more than 1 hour!) - although after a reboot it managed a whole 20 seconds before crashing. I've no doubt that it's some sort of driver issue, but unfortuately I was unable to keep the system up long enough to install drivers. I eventually managed to get some installed in safe mode after trawling through the install disc.

The fault here lies entirely with Microsoft and their utterly disgusting driver "programme". It's a complete an utter joke, a signed driver has to meet certain basic requirements, but theres no guarantee that it'll not take your system out, they seem to portray signed "certified" drivers as if their somehow divinely blessed.

The whole programme basically exists to extract money from developers, it's an utter joke. We refuse to provide signed drivers for our hardware on that basis! Don't get me started about how awful the WDM driver system is too, I'm praying that it dissapears in Windows 7.

I actually like XP (SP2), I think it's a good OS. I just get the feeling that Vista is a big mess, I don't think it looks particularly elegent. I suspect all of our windows machines here will (barring my development one) will bypass vista completely....
 

Darren S

ClioSport Club Member
From the OP's original requirements - Mac definitely.

Being a PC-man, I'm really wary of Vista at the moment, even though I run it at home. I fail to see any benefit that it brings over Windows XP - especially on the gaming front. It will happen, but certainly not now.

I'm all for change and trying new stuff. But I just feel Vista is a glorified Windows ME and people would rather wait until the next Windows OS comes out. Even more so now that Microsoft have extended the shelf-life of XP with Service Pack 3.

XP Service Pack 2 came out in 2004. Maybe SP3 will extend XP's life until 2012? Lol.

D.
 
Which one to go for I like the new iMacs but the cost about a 900 but I can get a dell or mesh computer for about 600 fully loaded. Is it worth that extra money for the Mac and also what are the Macs like for connecting to a home network. I watched a few videos about the Macs, but really is it as easy as they say it is to use. I would be using it for internet, music, photos
Pop down to PC world and have a look at them to see what you like the feel of. If you are only looking to use it for multimedia and internet a Mac may suit but a PC (Linux/Windows based) could also perform these tasks for a smaller price.

I'd also ignore a lot of the posts on here saying Windows always crashes. I've been running XP on my laptop for nearly 2 years now with only one outage which was caused by a disk fault. If you understand what can cause an O/S to crash you can avoid it.
 
lol at macs not crashing, very very very rarely does my windows xp comp crash, usually when i'm titing about and there is viruses out there for macs.

from something I saw recently that I believe to be tree but apologies if it's inaccurate....

there's 5 known viruses for Macs.....four of those exploit security flaws in Microsoft Office for Mac!!!
 
  Better than yours. C*nt.
'Previous Versions' has been available on Windows XP since Service Pack 2.

Never heard of that so fair play if it does the job, main thing with time capsule is the sheer automated nature of it and the simplicity of restoration....oh and the waaaaay over the top star wars title effect of retrieving a file that just looks cool! lol

Nearly as simple as XP. Once it's enabled, right-click the file, click Properties, and then select 'Previous Versions'. You then get a list of revisions from the schedule you select and can restore or open any of them with a single click.

Far more useful than 'Time Capsule', which is just a pretty front and more resource-intensive way of doing the same thing. Much like the rest of OSX, in my opinion!
 
  A red missile
lol at macs not crashing, very very very rarely does my windows xp comp crash, usually when i'm titing about and there is viruses out there for macs.

from something I saw recently that I believe to be tree but apologies if it's inaccurate....

there's 5 known viruses for Macs.....four of those exploit security flaws in Microsoft Office for Mac!!!

thats the boggest load of b****cks i've ever seen, mac zealots spout so much s**t so often they actually believe it.
 
  172 mk2
haven't read the whole thread (so may have been said) but you can get good discounts through the educational store (via apple).

i saved 150odd pounds getting my macbook, chuffed to bits with it. when my housemates pc's go wrong they wish they have one too. just dont have any problems with it!
 
lol @ people who think macs are the be all and end all.

Ive had my viao running xp sp2 for two years and it hasnt crashed once, honest to god. Runs PS CS3 lightening quick, and has done everything else ive asked of it without one hint of slow down, ever.

Macs are over-hyped, over-priced fashion accesories.
 
Macs are over-hyped, over-priced fashion accesories.

Out of interest have you ever owned one?

I haven't owned one no, I have used a MBP extensively at work though.

Dont get me wrong, Im not saying their any worse than PCs, but in my opinion their no better. It just baffles me when people say their light years better than PCs when their not! They both do the job, one just costs alot more and it seems to be very fashionable to be on the macs are great PCs are cack bandwagon.
 

sn00p

ClioSport Club Member
  A blue one.
Out of interest have you ever owned one?

I haven't owned one no, I have used a MBP extensively at work though.

Dont get me wrong, Im not saying their any worse than PCs, but in my opinion their no better. It just baffles me when people say their light years better than PCs when their not! They both do the job, one just costs alot more and it seems to be very fashionable to be on the macs are great PCs are cack bandwagon.

My experience is somewhat different. Most mac owners couldn't give a flying f**k about windows - yet pc owners seem to get a bee in their bonnet about macs! Mac owners seem to have to defend themselves because windows owners can't stop trolling!

If you go through the "PC" threads on here, you won't find the mac users popping up spouting crap about windows, but post something about a mac and you get windows users popping up spouting all sorts crap and rubbish about macs!
 
  Better than yours. C*nt.
I haven't owned one no, I have used a MBP extensively at work though.

Dont get me wrong, Im not saying their any worse than PCs, but in my opinion their no better. It just baffles me when people say their light years better than PCs when their not! They both do the job, one just costs alot more and it seems to be very fashionable to be on the macs are great PCs are cack bandwagon.

My experience is somewhat different. Most mac owners couldn't give a flying f**k about windows - yet pc owners seem to get a bee in their bonnet about macs! Mac owners seem to have to defend themselves because windows owners can't stop trolling!

If you go through the "PC" threads on here, you won't find the mac users popping up spouting crap about windows, but post something about a mac and you get windows users popping up spouting all sorts crap and rubbish about macs!

Au contraire, sweetpea, every time there's a "Mac vs. Windows" debate, Windows users tend to say they've never understood why Macs are a million times better, whereas Mac users have to tell the world how s**t PCs and Windows are.

Are we all forgetting (more now than ever!) that they run on the same x86-64 architecture and share the same physical limitations? And that, indeed, a Mac is just a very, very expensive PC with a much more limited HCL (which gives it it's "legendary" stability).

I'm not bashing the Mac in this post - they are VERY pretty pieces of kit, and the idea of restricting the list of compatible hardware is good in principle, but in the real world there is no 'Computer User', and everyone uses their computer for different things to different extents, and as such the Mac is very much painting itself into a corner.

Just a minor example, short of the Apple solutions, how many SAS cards can you fit in your Mac Pro and run Leopard? I can run an industry-leading 9690SA in my Windows-based PC. The only SAS card you can run (and boot) from in your Mac is an Areca unit (which has to be Leopard) or the Apple unit which "is only supported with Apple drives". Add the OS limitation in (you can only use it on Leopard) and I point out the fact that I can install my 9690SA on Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows 2003, Windows Vista, Windows 2008 Server, Linux, FreeBSD... I'm bored now. Point being where do I get drivers for any of the above operating systems for the Apple RAID card? So what you're telling me is that if I buy the 'approved' Apple SATA RAID card and install 'unsupported' SAS disks in the machine, I can only use OSX Leopard and can't even use a bootloader such as Boot Camp to run Windows?

Ok, take a home example as well. I'd like to use my Creative Xen with my Mac. What, I can't? I've got to buy an Apple iPod? If Microsoft dared to suggest that the only PMP you could use with Windows was the Microsoft disaster, Apple would be first in the lawsuit queue to point out that you can't force people into specific hardware.

"Oh, but you can install it, you just have to use it like a normal disk drive" - so when my device ships with a fairly useful piece of software for organising it's music and uploading it in a similar fashion to Apple's iTunes, I can't use it because Apple say so? Who are they to say this?

If I wanted to play games, Apple won't certify the 9800 GX2 drivers. So I can't use one. Microsoft should probably take this approach because nVidia are s**t at drivers, but you get the idea.

Very, very limited in it's uses and in my personal opinion, of no use outside of the house or in marketing/graphic design environments where they were originally designed for.
 

sn00p

ClioSport Club Member
  A blue one.
Au contraire, sweetpea, every time there's a "Mac vs. Windows" debate, Windows users tend to say they've never understood why Macs are a million times better, whereas Mac users have to tell the world how s**t PCs and Windows are.

I wasn't referring to mac vs windows threads. I was specifically talking about "PC only" threads or "mac only" threads. I think you'll find that most mac threads will have been hijacked by a windows user spouting things such as "Fashion Accesory" or "Overpriced" or other such crap!

Are we all forgetting (more now than ever!) that they run on the same x86-64 architecture and share the same physical limitations? And that, indeed, a Mac is just a very, very expensive PC with a much more limited HCL (which gives it it's "legendary" stability).

You're also forgetting that Macs also run on PPC (ok, leopard may well be the last release that runs on that particular hardware platform) - but more significantly there is no differentiation between 32 or 64 bit, the correct kernel is installed at, erm, install time! Drivers and applications can be compiled for PPC, x86 with 32+64 bit all in the same binary executable.

I'm not bashing the Mac in this post - they are VERY pretty pieces of kit, and the idea of restricting the list of compatible hardware is good in principle, but in the real world there is no 'Computer User', and everyone uses their computer for different things to different extents, and as such the Mac is very much painting itself into a corner.

I know, I actually enjoy reading your posts as you obviously (mostly ;) ) know what you're talking about.

At the end of the day it's about choice, but I just get a bit fed up of windows users who've heard nothing buy chinese whispers from their mates, cousins, uncles, grandad who once used OS X for 2 minutes in PC world - spouting crap about macs - that's why Mac owners stand up!

Just a minor example, short of the Apple solutions, how many SAS cards can you fit in your Mac Pro and run Leopard? I can run an industry-leading 9690SA in my Windows-based PC. The only SAS card you can run (and boot) from in your Mac is an Areca unit (which has to be Leopard) or the Apple unit which "is only supported with Apple drives". Add the OS limitation in (you can only use it on Leopard) and I point out the fact that I can install my 9690SA on Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows 2003, Windows Vista, Windows 2008 Server, Linux, FreeBSD... I'm bored now. Point being where do I get drivers for any of the above operating systems for the Apple RAID card? So what you're telling me is that if I buy the 'approved' Apple SATA RAID card and install 'unsupported' SAS disks in the machine, I can only use OSX Leopard and can't even use a bootloader such as Boot Camp to run Windows?

Pass. No idea, I'd imagine 99% of "normal" pc/mac owners wouldn't be interested in raid systems so it's a bit of a non-issue really (imho).

Ok, take a home example as well. I'd like to use my Creative Xen with my Mac. What, I can't? I've got to buy an Apple iPod? If Microsoft dared to suggest that the only PMP you could use with Windows was the Microsoft disaster, Apple would be first in the lawsuit queue to point out that you can't force people into specific hardware.

Ask creative. There are hooks in the iTunes SDK to provide access to the iTunes library and providing plugin services inside iTunes. Creative could produce a plugin if they really wanted to.

"Oh, but you can install it, you just have to use it like a normal disk drive" - so when my device ships with a fairly useful piece of software for organising it's music and uploading it in a similar fashion to Apple's iTunes, I can't use it because Apple say so? Who are they to say this?

I don't know having never seen a Xen! How does it "sync" in windows? Is it drag and drop? Does it use media player? Does it use proprietry software?

I suspect the answer is "ask creative" why they don't support Mac.

If I wanted to play games, Apple won't certify the 9800 GX2 drivers. So I can't use one. Microsoft should probably take this approach because nVidia are s**t at drivers, but you get the idea.

Amen to that. Microsoft would certify a turd of you could find a slot to plug it into!

Very, very limited in it's uses and in my personal opinion, of no use outside of the house or in marketing/graphic design environments where they were originally designed for.

Bah. Maybe 10-20 years ago....this just seems to be a myth that PC owners perpetuate. :p

I can tell you that our software is definately not for home or "graphic designers", it runs on OS X, Linux and Windows.

Great post by the way, makes a change to the normal "macs suck" crap we normally get on here.
 

dk

  911 GTS Cab
this is something i keep debating with myself, i'd like to try a mac but they are just so overpriced for the spec, i always buy sony which are expensive as far as pc's go but they ar enothing compared to a mac, for instance.

I'm looking at the new Sony AR71ZU, and it has twice the spec of the Macbook pro and is still cheaper, the MBP is £1800!

The sony has double the memory, more than double the hdd space and a BR recordable drive and better resolution screen (unles syou pay the extra £60 for the MBP).

I just can't see the justification of going for the MAC, especially as it will be more hassle with having to run my favourite apps in parallels just to get them to work?
 

dk

  911 GTS Cab
I got the FZ31Z in the end DK, really like it :)
great spec laptop, blu-ray writer too, nice!

Be interested to hear how good the bluray playback is with that graphics card and spec laptop.

Perfect example of how a MAC would cost so much more for the spec (not that you could spec one with a BDW anyway) and IMO sony are just as stylish.
 


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