Making Standard Power Steering Lighter

[AlanWak]

I compete in Autosolos (and other events) which can entail a lot of wheel spinning. Compared to my other cars, the 172's steering is on the heavy side. Unlikely, but I had to ask - is there any way to make the standard steering a little lighter?

Everything was replaced around a year ago (after the PAS pump failed at an event at Demon Tweeks) so everything should be working as it should. I don't want to blow the front tyres up hard and/or run narrow tyres. I also don't want to handbrake round every turn. I have to stay standard to meet event regs so no EPAS.

Any thoughts?

 

[Mr Plums]

Why would you want to make the steering lighter?

You would lose the great steering feel that these cars are known for.

You could buy an ep3?

 

[Crybert]

Pump your tyres to 60psi

 

[Crybert]

Do some weights

 

[AlanWak]

Thanks for the valuable, considered comments

I can't position the Clio as precisely as I can when driving other cars with lighter steering. It's due to the rack being relatively slow and the speed of turning the wheel. I'm losing tenths on a test, huge when the top four are normally split by around 2.5 seconds after a day of competition.

Escort Cosworths can obtain lighter steering by machining the pump to open the ports. I can believe there would probably be negative knock on effects with a Clio. I could also do with a quicker rack.

Any experience of "improving" standard steering?

 

[Mr Plums]

Camber/toe/stickier tyres/lighter wheels.

 

[McGherkin]

I think you're sailing a little into uncharted waters there. Obviously most people drive their clios at higher speed where you don't need as much assistance, but in the scenario of autosolos the load is much higher. So there's not many people who've modified the PAS to make it lighter.

Getting the wheel offsets as close as possible to dead centre with the centre of rotation, running less caster, I'm guessing these would help?

That said, I autosolo an MX5 with a manual rack, but I'm not as quick as you :tongueout:

 

[STEVE.M]

[QUOTE="AlanWak, post: 11348274, member: 111911" I have to stay standard to meet event regs so no EPAS.
Any thoughts?[/QUOTE]
No Mini`s were manufactured with a 1380 cc K series, where as EPAS was standard on many PH2`s.
Bend the rules a little.

 

[AlanWak]

Camber/toe/stickier tyres/lighter wheels.

All set up by KTEC to generate grip. I don't want to lose traction by changing the geometry. I'm limited to 1a tyres and normally run PS3s on Team Dynamics Pro Race 1.2 wheels which are the lightest I could find, in fact wheel spin is easier with them. How would stickier tyres make the steering lighter?

 

[AlanWak]

I think you're sailing a little into uncharted waters there. Obviously most people drive their clios at higher speed where you don't need as much assistance, but in the scenario of autosolos the load is much higher. So there's not many people who've modified the PAS to make it lighter.

Getting the wheel offsets as close as possible to dead centre with the centre of rotation, running less caster, I'm guessing these would help?

That said, I autosolo an MX5 with a manual rack, but I'm not as quick as you :tongueout:

You're right Callum, at more open venues such as Kemble, Barton Stacey or Smeatharpe then the speed of steering is less of an issue. Won't be a problem at Castle Combe on 25th for the Great Western Sprint, where I'll probably be bored as a lot of the time I'll just be sitting there flat out. Throw in more turns!
This topic was started as I'm competing on a Solo at Mitcheldean this Sunday which is relatively tight. Last year I suffered with lack of front end traction and came nowhere. That should now be fixed. I have some old PE2s on your old wheels at the back so I stand more chance of making the back end loose, but they still seem to be providing too much grip. I'm also thinking of the Inter Association Autosolo at Lymm Services, Autosolos are normally tighter in the North than in the South where we have more old, spacious airfields.
I'm really in to looking for tenths now, just small improvements, I've made the big changes. The Clio is now a LOT quicker than when I saw you at Smeatharpe last year, over a year of tweeking. But I always want more!

 

[McGherkin]

Getting the wheel offsets as close as possible to dead centre with the centre of rotation

My mind has just remembered the name of what I was making a butchery of describing. Scrub radius, lol

I seem to recall a post about one of the hoses being quite restrictive on the stock PAS setup now I think of it. Think it only affects Ph1s though.


Should hopefully see you at some later in the year, got perranporth this weekend, hopefully a fairly open one.

 

[AlanWak]

[QUOTE="AlanWak, post: 11348274, member: 111911" I have to stay standard to meet event regs so no EPAS.
Any thoughts?

No Mini`s were manufactured with a 1380 cc K series, where as EPAS was standard on many PH2`s.
Bend the rules a little.[/QUOTE]

Why do you mention Minis? Going from engine-driven PAS to EPAS is rather too simple to spot, hardly "bending the rules". Am I missing something?

 

[AlanWak]

[QUOTE="AlanWak, post: 11348274, member: 111911" I have to stay standard to meet event regs so no EPAS.
Any thoughts?

No Mini`s were manufactured with a 1380 cc K series, where as EPAS was standard on many PH2`s.
Bend the rules a little.[/QUOTE]

Why do you mention Minis? Going from engine-driven PAS to EPAS is rather too easy to spot, hardly "bending the rules". Am I missing something?

 

[McGherkin]

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=110778

Interesting. No idea if the same is true for a clio, but if so you could set it up to have as much or as little assistance as you'd like.

 

[AlanWak]

My mind has just remembered the name of what I was making a butchery of describing. Scrub radius, lol

I seem to recall a post about one of the hoses being quite restrictive on the stock PAS setup now I think of it. Think it only affects Ph1s though.


Should hopefully see you at some later in the year, got perranporth this weekend, hopefully a fairly open one.

This is where the compromises start, maybe trading front end grip for lighter steering. I think I'll stick with grip

My other competition cars, running the same tyres and a "grip" set up have much lighter steering, hence how I know I can be more precise in positioning the car with lighter steering. But the other cars don't have the Clio's grunt. I'd love to have my Micra with Clio power, the (well set up) Micra's still the best handling car I've owned, better than the Clio, Elise, ex-works 205, ...

I'll see you on an event somewhere, I'll have to venture down in the the South West to defend my ASWMC title - most of the events in the past were more West/Midlands.

 

[AlanWak]

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=110778

Interesting. No idea if the same is true for a clio, but if so you could set it up to have as much or as little assistance as you'd like.

This would be ideal but I don't believe the Clio has a PAS ECU or any other control, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong. Could the mechanical side of the Clio PAS provide lighter steering? I've already blown one pump on an event (Demon Tweek's car park won't rust!).

 

[Pauleds]

Fit an epas column on along with the original hydraulic pas.
You are not changing anything on the original pas side of things, but does it say anything about adding extra assistance?

 

[bozothenutter]

pure now do a PAS rack that is 2 turn lock to lock....

 

[AlanWak]

Fit an epas column on along with the original hydraulic pas.
You are not changing anything on the original pas side of things, but does it say anything about adding extra assistance?

Nice thinking, a possibility. Has anybody done this to a Clio? I expect most would just go for purely EPAS or a manual rack if they're making changes, not a hybrid.

 

[AlanWak]

pure now do a PAS rack that is 2 turn lock to lock....

Good find. That could reduce the amount of steering wheel spinning I have to do. I'd like to try a car with this quick rack. I've asked Pure if they could do anything about the lightness of the steering as well.

 

[Pauleds]

Nice thinking, a possibility. Has anybody done this to a Clio? I expect most would just go for purely EPAS or a manual rack if they're making changes, not a hybrid.

I cant see there being any issue as all you are doing is changing the upper column to rack for one that has the electric assistance and ecu to control it. Pretty straightforward to do too.

 

[AlanWak]

Autosolo at Mitcheldean done. TBH the steering was way better than I remembered on relatively tight tests, it wasn't an issue on the day. I'll focus on other areas for improvement. Lifting rear wheels and losing rear end grip appears to be an area for focus, waiting to see the pictures. I certainly felt the back end hopping around a lot.

The rain was my major issue - lying second overall, first in class after three tests (0.5 secs ahead of John Fox in his Clio Trophy). John went out in the first group for the last test, in the dry. I was in the last group to run and the rain started. At least ten seconds lost compared to others running at the same pace and i dropped to fifth overall and third in class, frustrating. Masses of Championship points lost. The classes should be in the same running group where possible to keep conditions the same. Hopefully the reverse will occur in the future. Annoyed.

Sprint at Castle Combe tomorrow for the first ever round of the Bristol MC Clio Cup Championship. It'll be intersting to see what spec of cars turn up. I feel very standard, I'll be running with the CD tray still in the multi-changer! I'm not expecting to come anywhere, low expectations, I'm better in the twisty stuff. Targa Rally at Wethersfield on Sunday (in the Rover), looking forward more to sliding around on muddy/broken concrete and tarmac with a navigator telling me where to go (and hopefully keeping his breakfast down!).

 

[mikekean]

I'm running a Mercedes A Class electric pump on my car and it is much lighter than standard, not sure how that fall's in with your regs but it retains the hydraulic rack etc.