Mk2,Ph1 Cable Accelerator/ Throttle up and down like a yo-yo

[chris blue]

Approaching traffic lights, braking, take out of gear at about 10mph, and the revs drop to 1000, then up to 2000, (Sometimes 2500 eek!) then down to 1000, then up to 2000, then down to 1000..... you get the drift. every second or so. Whats to blame?

Ive had very recent history (bad) with the throttle cable which snapped, (http://www.cliosport.net/posts/11280309/) and replaced the inner steel wire, lubed it, cut back an inch of the outer sleeved, recut the rubber nipple at throttle body end to ensure smooth cable action, also lubed cable entry at pedal end.
Also, cleaned throttle body (In situ) with a carb cleaner and soft brush, and return spring on throttle body.
Removed the ICValve and cleaned all the carbon

The cable pedal seems to travel smooth and not too firm, engine runs and pulls great. Starts first time (Thanks to a new BOSCH S3 battery)

Rang Renault parts for a price on a new valve- £131.65 inc vat would you believe!!!!!
I fell off my chair, or slipped anyways, for something you could hide in your fist closed. If it had been cheap enough, would have tried it. He was helpful (Steve at Lifestyle Brighton parts) and suggested it could be air getting in at the pipe around the ICV. Or somewhere else

Surely it cant be accelerator cable... as engine revs goes up and down quite considerably? Cant be a problem on idle that you can live with, its too severe.

Will remove and thoroughly clean throttle body, will inspect all pipes for leaks, and not sure how to prove the ICV. Could it be the MAP sensor- engine is running great atm tho- its just the idle?

Otherwise, I'm running out of ideas?

 

[KitsonRis]

Air getting in past from a leak from a point past the throttle body??
If you are removing the throttle body I would reccomend getting a new throttle body gasket before you do as you will be extremely lucky if you manage not to damage it tkign it off. For the sake of a few quid (less than £5) it is worth re-placing. Or even the inlet manifold, this has two gaskets) I would replace the gaskets, especially if you could be having problems.

IIRC the ICV is past the butterfly valve?? (I dont have my car with me so can't go and check). If you have taken this off make sure the seal is good.

If you are able to get a "working" second hand ICV then I would have a go with that, or borrow one. There is currently a Ph1 being broken in the for sale section, have a look on there.

 

[chris blue]

^ Thanks. Pretty much agree with everything you say. Will check that I replaced the ICV properly, cant remember a sealing ring or gasket. Yes- got gasket on order. Got used throttle body coming. Yes- ICV is a few inches past the butterfly throttle body. Yes- may well get hold of a used or salvaged ICV.

 

[KitsonRis]

If all else fails then this is the only option....
http://www.pure-motorsport.co.uk/details.php?itemid=391&model=-1

 

[chris blue]

If all else fails then this is the only option....
http://www.pure-motorsport.co.uk/details.php?itemid=391&model=-1

Quite right. A must do.

 

[barnesautos]

The idle valve seal is green , you can't miss it , is it still there ?
If so
Have you reset the idle valve ?
The valve as you know moves in and out , by turning the ignition on and off will carry out the reset process .
Try disconnection the battery first and then the in and off procedure . 10 times , only after this amount then start the engine .

 

[chris blue]

The idle valve seal is green , you can't miss it , is it still there ?
If so
Have you reset the idle valve ?
The valve as you know moves in and out , by turning the ignition on and off will carry out the reset process .
Try disconnection the battery first and then the in and off procedure . 10 times , only after this amount then start the engine .

Dont think i saw a green O ring TBH, no. Spose it might have pinged off. (Should have thought of an airtight seal)
Didnt know about the reset either, altho vaguely rember reading something. somewhen. Will try that

Just ordered some O rings,

Will give all this a go.

As usual, many thanks, et cetera, et cetera:hearteyes::up:

Looks like Ive lots to do Christmas day then... he he.

 

[bloke]

new icv is £30 from euro. it's your throttle body though, return spring pulls it to one side and wears the butterfly and starts sticking. need to strip it fully and get rid of any ridges on the body where the butterfly sits.

 

[barnesautos]

Said green seal

 

[chris blue]

new icv is £30 from euro. it's your throttle body though, return spring pulls it to one side and wears the butterfly and starts sticking. need to strip it fully and get rid of any ridges on the body where the butterfly sits.

Thanks. Having tried cleaning the spring and the butterfly without removing, will remove it to clean over weekend.
Tried several times to clean the return spring in situ, but it will be easier to get at when removed
Just waiting for the gasket to arrive

 

[chris blue]

Said green seal

View attachment 172456

Ooooo. I do remember seeing something like that. But will check again

 

[chris blue]

As you can just about see here on the photo i took before i cleaned, the seal is there.
Looks pretty grim tho, any idea how easy to get a new one? where from?

 

[KitsonRis]

For the sake of £30 I would be tempted to put a new one in.
A new TB from Renault is +£300, which is stupiud money.

 

[chris blue]

For the sake of £30 I would be tempted to put a new one in.
A new TB from Renault is +£300, which is stupiud money.

I might well do, but it just gauls me that you replace these parts and later find out it wasnt them in the first place
Might be the seal, might have to improvise my own seal, may have to get a new Idle valve, but also it could be something totally different.

I'd take a stab that there is air getting in somewhere for the current oscillating revs issue, but then may still be left with the sticky revs issue (Throttle body)

Ive got a used Throttle body on its way which i will try out first, which i intend to modify.
But as said, awaiting the gasket or would have taken the exisiting TB off to give it a good clean before cleaning the ICV.

No doubt will get to the end of it sooner or later . LOL.

 

[chris blue]

Took the ICV and pipe off again, (Checked pipe was airtight) checked that the greeny blue sealing washer is there, it was. Added a little extra padding and replaced, make sure the bolts were tight enough. Disconnected battery for 5 mins, then turned ignition on and off 10 times to reset the ICV.

Took for a spin, and its better than yo-yo, that seems to have gone. Then as the 5 minute drive contd, whilst at traffic lights and junctions the revs returned to around 1000, it took an extra tiny bit longer to do that as the engine warmed up. At the end of the drive as i reversed into my parking bay, it revved to 2000 and didnt return, and i dabbed the accelerator pedal and it went down to 1000 rpm again

So have noticed the issue of revving at idle after changing/slowing down and stopping gets worse the warmer the engine. For all i know (might try tomorrow) the yo-yo revs may come back after a half hour drive

My options left now are:

1. Purchase a new ICV for around £30 and grind off the old one, and nut and bolt the new one on
2. get a brand spanking whole new ICV with new green seal and angled entry at £131 from Renault :-(
3. Take off the Throttle body and clean and replace
4. Replace new throttle body with a used one i have just recived, and see how that goes?
5. Both 3 and 4
6. Go into a corner and pull out all my hair, and weep profusely. (lol)

NB: Still pulls like a train, makes a fab sound, and is a nice handling drive (Except for occasional wheel spin)

 

[KitsonRis]

is it only holding revs when you gently let off the throttle? Like if you are holding it at a constant speed or lifting off to coast to pull up to a stop?
Can you get it to hold the high revs by manually opening the throttle by hand and not with the pedal/cable? You may need to open it and then slowly let go of it if it is doing what I think it is doing. If it hold the revs see where the plastic wheel thing the cable goes into is in rerlation to the stop position - it should be slighlty open. When it is open get someone to turn the car off and it should return to the stop position.
And when the car is off you wont be able to make it stick in the open position.

If this is all true I had exectly the same last month and I just swapped the TB with one that was known not to stick. Works fine now with the replacement TB.

Me and my step dad were bth confused with this, it is as if the air pressure is holding it open if there isn't a sharp impule when the throttle is closed - ie a blip of the throttle or quickly let go of th plastic thing by hand. The only thing we could think of there force of the air was enough to keep it open on some slight imperfection in the spring or the buttefly catching on something.

Basically, try and get the throttle to stick by hand and then get someone to turn the engine off while watching the stop position of the TB.

 

[chris blue]

^ Sounds bout the same as mine. Will follow your explanation to the letter on Saturday, and will report back. Thanks.

 

[KitsonRis]

Don't worry, I went through the same pain as you! Was a nightmare trying to pinpoint what it was. I still have the old TB which I might take apart and see what is what with it

 

[chris blue]

Couple days ago, when it was revving round 2k revs, touched the plastic wheel thingy, and revs dropped back down. Thing is, i didnt see wheel move .....

 

[barnesautos]

Couple days ago, when it was revving round 2k revs, touched the plastic wheel thingy, and revs dropped back down. Thing is, i didnt see wheel move .....

Do not waste your money on ICV. It's not that .
Concentrate on the throttle flap and where it comes to its resting place . The black wheel thingy as you've said , it connected to the flap , if the throttle is 100% closed and the flap is resting on the grub screw then the issue could be with the throttle potentiometer where it hasn't told the ecu to go to idle mode and it still thinks it's partially open .
Imho with mine sticking - as I have said , I took mine apart and cleaned everything. Only once that was done did it fix my issue and I didn't spend a single £.

 

[chris blue]

Do not waste your money on ICV. It's not that .
Concentrate on the throttle flap and where it comes to its resting place . The black wheel thingy as you've said , it connected to the flap , if the throttle is 100% closed and the flap is resting on the grub screw then the issue could be with the throttle potentiometer where it hasn't told the ecu to go to idle mode and it still thinks it's partially open .
Imho with mine sticking - as I have said , I took mine apart and cleaned everything. Only once that was done did it fix my issue and I didn't spend a single £.

Funny thing is, when looking at the Throttle body when cleaning in situ, it looked completely closed. And it seemed to snap back well enough when i played with it for a whiole- doesnt mean its good to go, i know. It may well be the return spring, as however much i tried to clean it with carb clean it still looks a bit grimey and greasy, so when replacing with another throttle body i have got (Dont know how good it is) will clean the first throttle body really well, maybe even taking apart.

This "throttle potentiomenter" sounds interesting- is it some sort of electrical sensor/device, or mechanicl that needs a clean?

What surprises me is that the ICV right angle connector that attached to the manifold, doesnt seem to have any type of gasket. Hard plastic base connects straight onto metal? (as in photo #12) Wondered if i should make a gasket, as it need to be airtight?

 

[bloke]

it's the butterfly/body seating. done loads of them. strip it and stop messing around and wasting your time.

 

[barnesautos]

Funny thing is, when looking at the Throttle body when cleaning in situ, it looked completely closed. And it seemed to snap back well enough when i played with it for a whiole- doesnt mean its good to go, i know. It may well be the return spring, as however much i tried to clean it with carb clean it still looks a bit grimey and greasy, so when replacing with another throttle body i have got (Dont know how good it is) will clean the first throttle body really well, maybe even taking apart.

This "throttle potentiomenter" sounds interesting- is it some sort of electrical sensor/device, or mechanicl that needs a clean?

What surprises me is that the ICV right angle connector that attached to the manifold, doesnt seem to have any type of gasket. Hard plastic base connects straight onto metal? (as in photo #12) Wondered if i should make a gasket, as it need to be airtight?

The potentiometer is electrical .
Tells the ecu where the throttle is at all times.

With regards to the idle valve , if you suspect the seal at fault , this can be confirmed by spraying a gentle spray amount of carb cleaner around the valve and see if the idle is affected as the fluid would be drawn in if there was an air leak .
No need to make a gasket .

 

[chris blue]

it's the butterfly/body seating. done loads of them. strip it and stop messing around and wasting your time.

Ha! Learning all the time ...

 

[chris blue]

Fitted an alternative throttle body today, and whilst a bit better, still fluctuating. Not given a real good drive yet, will do that when going to work tomorrow
Fitted the 2nd hand throttle body and accelerator cable went a bit tighter too?

So- maybe fit a renault accelerator cable not an aftermarket (Still dont see how revs can go up and down due to a cable sticking.. stuck on high revs, yes... but not fluctuate) then get one of the throttle bodies overhauled and bored out at the same time, then just about out of ideas.

Loosing faith TBH over a bleeding cable operated throttle- no wonder they went electronic.

 

[Mar172]

Fitted an alternative throttle body today, and whilst a bit better, still fluctuating. Not given a real good drive yet, will do that when going to work tomorrow
Fitted the 2nd hand throttle body and accelerator cable went a bit tighter too?

So- maybe fit a renault accelerator cable not an aftermarket (Still dont see how revs can go up and down due to a cable sticking.. stuck on high revs, yes... but not fluctuate) then get one of the throttle bodies overhauled and bored out at the same time, then just about out of ideas.

Loosing faith TBH over a bleeding cable operated throttle- no wonder they went electronic.

Thats a ph1 for you

 

[bloke]

(Still dont see how revs can go up and down due to a cable sticking.. stuck on high revs, yes... but not fluctuate) then get one of the throttle bodies overhauled and bored out at the same time, then just about out of ideas.

icv...

 

[chris blue]

icv...

Cleaned it. May replace.

 

[bloke]

icv can be fine but with a sticky throttle the icv will do it's job to sort the revs out.

 

[chris blue]

have taken for a 20 minute test drive today, and decided to do a "Miss Daisy" and see how the car reacted. Made sure I had a lot of junctions to pull up and stop, and didnt go over about 2200 rpm.

Loads better, but still not exactly right. Hardly any issues before the engine has warmed up, sits around 1100 revs which is OK by me.
When engine is warm, it doesnt like dropping the revs quite as quick,(At junctions) takes a second or 2 to get to 1100 revs. But then it idles fine at that (Maybe 1000revs)

Again, with the engine warm, and having laboured up a hill or something, it may sit at 1500 revs for a second or 2 , then drop to 1000 revs. Once in the whole journey it didnt seem to want to come down from 1500 that easily?

It is either throttle body, ICV, or cable, as when engine is left alone it (now) happily idles away at even revs.

Will take out tomorrow and give it a bit of a Damon Hill burst, see how it reacts

 

[chris blue]

Had a look at the spring on the throttle body i took off, it looks almost twisted and almost trying to overlap itself.

Good clean methinks, then send one of them off to be machined to 64mm.

 

[chris blue]

My replacement throttle body seems much better, and seems to get better

Funny thing is tho, when the engine is cold on first start up, accelerator pedal acts perfect for a few minutes till its gets warm, then just a slight glitch when taking out of gear approaching a junction when it goes up for just a second or two

When cold, its as respnsive as a brand new motor

Is that the butterfly thing?

 

[Mar172]

Do you have to blip the accelerator and it comes back to normal

 

[chris blue]

Do you have to blip the accelerator and it comes back to normal

No. comes back to normal within a second or 2 on its own