More power?

[natter07]

Ok im going to sound like a complete n00b.

I have a 1.4 16v mk2 ph2 clio and i want more power.

Im going to do the basics.

Pipercross venom induction kit.
KTR Stealth mild steel exhaust system.
ECU remap.
4-2-1 Manifold.

The above should put the car from 98bhp standard to estimated 121bhp max (hopefully).

Induction kit and exhaust im hoping will give about 5bhp, manifold has had 8bhp increase from KTR and the ECU remap will give about 10bhp more.

Now eventually i will want more than that and i know the best and easiest way is to do an engine swap but i like the idea a 1.4 will be alot quicker than expected

I was wondering what suggestions other people had, turbo, throttle bodies, better induction kit than viper, pistons, cams etc? :approve:

 

[Bazzon]

Ok im going to sound like a complete n00b.

I have a 1.4 16v mk2 ph2 clio and i want more power.

Im going to do the basics.

Pipercross venom induction kit.
KTR Stealth mild steel exhaust system.
ECU remap.
4-2-1 Manifold.

The above should put the car from 98bhp standard to estimated 121bhp max (hopefully).

Induction kit and exhaust im hoping will give about 5bhp, manifold has had 8bhp increase from KTR and the ECU remap will give about 10bhp more.

Now eventually i will want more than that and i know the best and easiest way is to do an engine swap but i like the idea a 1.4 will be alot quicker than expected

I was wondering what suggestions other people had, turbo, throttle bodies, better induction kit than viper, pistons, cams etc? :approve:

FLOL i just fell of my chair.

There is now way you will see those gains.

The only mod there that will give any sort of power increase is the remap and still then 10BHP is a over estimate.

With a 1.4 16V the best way of getting any more power, is to strip things out of it so you have a better power/weight ratio.

And save money for a better/more powerful engine in time.

 

[scott1205]

lol @ falling off your chair

 

[A18XHO]

garenteed it wont be as fast as mine lol

 

[Aluco]

You will see 105bhp maximum, waste of money.

 

[natter07]

FLOL i just fell of my chair.

There is now way you will see those gains.

The only mod there that will give any sort of power increase is the remap and still then 10BHP is a over estimate.

With a 1.4 16V the best way of getting any more power, is to strip things out of it so you have a better power/weight ratio.

And save money for a better/more powerful engine in time.

Im just going by the figures ive read.

I did say in the previous post i dont want to go for a larger engine i'd rather stick with the 1.4. I cant afford insurance on a 172/182 hence why i didnt buy one.

What do you think the increase would be with those 4 parts then?

 

[Aluco]

The increase wont be above 105 bhp tbh mate. 110 if you have a very "good one"...

If you want to make it fast its an expensive route of TB's (still not that fast) Or turbo/Scharged, which would cost more than insurance on a 1*2.

 

[natter07]

Ok, so whats the suggestions?

Engine swap, if so what engine? K4M, 172/182?

 

[A18XHO]

Do it, will have decent enough power to have plenty of fun and learn how to drive properly. Strip it out and 100% u'll have millions of fun chasing every car that moves lol and will keep with a sport all day long.

 

[natter07]

I had a 1.6 zetec S before hand and had plenty of fun in that. I just wanted to have a rapid 1.4 that could beat vts's etc.


So.... engine swaps?

 

[Aluco]

Do it, will have decent enough power to have plenty of fun and learn how to drive properly. Strip it out and 100% u'll have millions of fun chasing every car that moves lol and will keep with a sport all day long.

You that deluded guy with the world eating 1.4 ?

 

[treemanx]

Do it if it makes you happy. It will make a noticeable difference to you and be abit more fun but I'd be suprised if you get near 110bhp... You can't presume your car has the stated bhp from new let alone after a few years, or add up the "possible gains of upto" figures from different mods . I'd have had all that done to the Zetec-S instead (infact I did lol).

 

[natter07]

Do it if it makes you happy. It will make a noticeable difference to you and be abit more fun but I'd be suprised if you get near 110bhp... You can't presume your car has the stated bhp from new let alone after a few years, or add up the "possible gains of upto" figures from different mods . I'd have had all that done to the Zetec-S instead (infact I did lol).

You didnt know my Zetec-S, was breaking every 5mins lol.

The "possible gains of upto" figures are from all stated from 1.4 models so... i dunno lol.

Its 98bhp standard, if you go by the whole lose 1bhp per year then it has 94bhp

 

[chris_p]

I had a 1.6 zetec S before hand and had plenty of fun in that. I just wanted to have a rapid 1.4 that could beat vts's etc.


So.... engine swaps?

even then you´d need to register its had an engine swap on the logbook and tell the insurance about the modifications.

Why not buy a 106gti, cheap insurance, basically the same as a vts, great handling.

 

[treemanx]

You will notice a difference specially with throttle response. Who really cares about bhp? You'll give standard-ish vtr's/Zetec-s' a run for there money with them mods. Specially because they wont be expecting a standard-ish (non-rs) looking clio to be a challenge they'll let you hit the beans first

 

[natter07]

Dont like 106 Gti's, heard they are unreliable too.

True engine swap does put more on insurance, its not that i couldnt afford it, i just cant justify paying 1.8k-2.0k on insurance. And i'd definatly do it all legit with the log book etc.

It is tempting to do it, even for the small gain of 7-10bhp. Would mean i could do more, cams etc later on to give it abit more go!

To be honest i'd rather increase the torque than bhp, who needs top speed when you could do 0-60 in 6 seconds.

 

[scott1205]

vts keep with sports so i cnt see a 1.4 keeping with them

 

[dannyjenks]

If your so bothered about what insurance is going to cost you on a sport, why you going to modify? insurance will just become as bad and it will have been easier to buy a sport as a lot faster car anyway

 

[yellowbelly]

Dont like 106 Gti's, heard they are unreliable too.

Yes they are to an extent but no more so than Renaults mate, which ever way you turn in the French car scene you're never really buying for the reliability factor lol

Oh and put the car on a diet is my suggestion...

 

[natter07]

Yes they are to an extent but no more so than Renaults mate, which ever way you turn in the French car scene you're never really buying for the reliability factor lol

Oh and put the car on a diet is my suggestion...

True, french cars aren't known for their reliability.

Does stripping a car really do that much though?

 

[Martin_172]

put a 1.6 16v in it, they look identical so no one will know, theres 110bhp and more torque to start with, if you really want, filter, exhaust, manifold and remap will probably give you 120bhp, still never going to be fast though

 

[AstoN]

put a 1.6 16v in it, they look identical so no one will know, theres 110bhp and more torque to start with, if you really want, filter, exhaust, manifold and remap will probably give you 120bhp, still never going to be fast though

Fast and quick are two different things.

I'd rather a quick car, since most of roads around here are B roads. A 1.6 engine with 1.4 gearbox (providing ratio's are shorter) will make it really fun to rifle through the box chasing things. Even standard dynamique's handle great, especially dci's.

Having driven a 172 & 182 on the roads around here, i can say my DCi 80 was probably more fun, it wasn't as balistic but it handled well and felt fun, there was a bigger gap between going quick close to the limit, and going too fast. A Sport is better for more open longer roads that are smoother. Pretty much anything can do same speeds round corners, the sport will jump up there quicker though so less room for error.

I say go for all the above, if you're keen to do lots to your engine, make it rev higher. Valve springs, shot peened conrods and new cams along with above mentioned mods, and spring + damper kit is all you'll need. You could strip it if you want, depends if you want it more practical or not.

 

[Martin_172]

completely disagree with you there, keeping in mind i own both a dci 100 and a modified 172, the dci is a great tool for going to work it handles well but it doesnt have the power to get the speed the suspension can be used for.

the 172 will keep up with MUCH MUCH more expensive machinery round a few bends, the dci simply wont.

 

[st3ve]

not worth it imo, if you want a fast car buy a fast car in the first place.

let's not forget the 1.4 16v is merely an urban dweller, it wasn't designed to be fast, just economical and cheap.

 

[Oliver_K4M]

I had my K4M on the dyno two days ago.....101,4kW @ 5540rpm and 180Nm @5040rpm...

 

[stuartymcv]

1.8k - 2.0.k on insurance on a sport wat age are you am only 20 a had a vtr for a year after having a bucket an with a clean lisence im paying a grand dead for the insurance on a 182 if you want it that bad wait a while and take the 1.4 on a diet i did that to the saxo and it was a laugh chasing vts's

 

[natter07]

1.8k - 2.0.k on insurance on a sport wat age are you am only 20 a had a vtr for a year after having a bucket an with a clean lisence im paying a grand dead for the insurance on a 182 if you want it that bad wait a while and take the 1.4 on a diet i did that to the saxo and it was a laugh chasing vts's

Im 19, clean license and 2yrs no claims. I couldnt find anyone that did a cheap quote because it was a 2.0L.

What have you done to the K4M to give it that performance?

 

[greglesueur]

buy a sport m8, or a pug gti, mint lil cars if u get a good en.. dnt was ya money in making urs faster ul just be dissapointed..

 

[Vicky.]

As everyone has said you definitely wont get that figure out of a 1.4.

I have a pipercross, remap, ktr exhaust etc etc but wouldnt dare put it on the rollers as I'd be too embarrased when i got like 10bhp ATW lol.

Just waiting til next year when I can get a nice 2ltr. Enjoy the 1.4 until you can afford something quicker.

 

[steve32c]

buy a sport m8, or a pug gti, mint lil cars if u get a good en.. dnt was ya money in making urs faster ul just be dissapointed..

Could we have that again in written English please

 

[Plummer]

I know a 1.4 making around 110, or just under.

Custom stealth exhaust, and some other little things.

 

[Oliver_K4M]

...

What have you done to the K4M to give it that performance?

A lot of things, cams, air-duct, bigger throttle, 4-2-1 manifold, 200 cell, 60mm exhaust system, re-map ....
But the engine is in a ClioI shell....

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=154299&highlight=K4M&page=3

 

[stuartymcv]

try bell for insurance a cant complain about the prices i get mines there mint i was 20 clean lisence for 2.5 year an the no claims and it was 370 more than the vtr which cost me 550

 

[p@blo]

Impressive setup oliver, some nice mods. Have you looked into the design of the s1600 k4m? How do they ever get so much power from it?

- Engine : Type 4KM – 4 cylinders – 16 valves – 1598 cc
> Maximum power : 220 Bhp at 8750 rpm
> Maximum torque : 220 Nm at 7750 rpm

 

[Oliver_K4M]

I wrote an email to renault sport some years ago with this questions and got an answer.

"Oliver,

AS enhenced the Renault K4M engine is, to tune it from 110 HP to 220 HP is a big challenge !!

The FIA regulation on the S1600 categorie concerning the engine relies on the following statements:

- single throttle box with a max diameter of 60 mm
- max engine revs : 9000 RPM
- to keep the original valves diameter
- no modification on the oil and water pump
- Compression ratio : The maximum compression ratio is 13/1.
- Valve timing and valve lift : Variable systems are prohibited.
- Variable geometry intake and exhaust manifolds are prohibited
- titanium and magnesium are prohibited.
- The head intake and exhaust holes can be increased in dimension by only 4%

What we have doneon the engine:

- The K4M bloc has not been modified (nor bore and stroke)
- the crankshaft is extracted from the Renault K9K standard engine !!!
- the crankshaft bearings are specific for heavy duty
- the conrods are specific (machined from solid with Renault K9K bearings)
- the pistons (specific shape) are aluminium forged
- Intake and exhaust ducts of the cylinder head have been polished to improve their permeability.
- Of course the camshafts are specific (machined from solid for the rigidity), also the valves and springs.
- Because of the high engine max rev, we have redesign the rockers and hydraulic bumps but keeping the same concept (rocker with bearing and spherical contact between the rocker and the bump; the hydraulic height adjustment of the rocker bump has been cancelled to prevent the bump from pumping up).
- We have particularly paid attention to the acoustic adjustement between the air intake manifold and the exhaust line in order to optimise the compromise of the torque diagram (for tarmac and gravel use)
- the flywheel (steel machined from solid) has been lightened to reduce inertia.
- The ECU (specific to racing) is from Magneti marelli (MF4M)

Because of the modern design of the Renault K4M engine, we are confident in having one of the very best S1600 engine today !!

Sorry, but we don't have any picture of the engine at the moment.
Maybe in a few days.

Best regards,

Jean-Yves HEITZ
Clio Kit Car S1600 project leader.
Renault Sport Technologies."




In other words, put again more sporty cams inside, higher compression ratio, shorter and wider íntake manifold, head work, exhaust with more lower back pressure and you will have it. But for this the engine needs to rev up higher which requests additional modifications from mecanical side as described. But I think such an engine isn´t drivable under public road conditions as you won´t have much torque below 4000 rpm...

 

[p@blo]

I wrote an email to renault sport some years ago with this questions and got an answer.

"Oliver,

AS enhenced the Renault K4M engine is, to tune it from 110 HP to 220 HP is a big challenge !!

The FIA regulation on the S1600 categorie concerning the engine relies on the following statements:

- single throttle box with a max diameter of 60 mm
- max engine revs : 9000 RPM
- to keep the original valves diameter
- no modification on the oil and water pump
- Compression ratio : The maximum compression ratio is 13/1.
- Valve timing and valve lift : Variable systems are prohibited.
- Variable geometry intake and exhaust manifolds are prohibited
- titanium and magnesium are prohibited.
- The head intake and exhaust holes can be increased in dimension by only 4%

What we have doneon the engine:

- The K4M bloc has not been modified (nor bore and stroke)
- the crankshaft is extracted from the Renault K9K standard engine !!!
- the crankshaft bearings are specific for heavy duty
- the conrods are specific (machined from solid with Renault K9K bearings)
- the pistons (specific shape) are aluminium forged
- Intake and exhaust ducts of the cylinder head have been polished to improve their permeability.
- Of course the camshafts are specific (machined from solid for the rigidity), also the valves and springs.
- Because of the high engine max rev, we have redesign the rockers and hydraulic bumps but keeping the same concept (rocker with bearing and spherical contact between the rocker and the bump; the hydraulic height adjustment of the rocker bump has been cancelled to prevent the bump from pumping up).
- We have particularly paid attention to the acoustic adjustement between the air intake manifold and the exhaust line in order to optimise the compromise of the torque diagram (for tarmac and gravel use)
- the flywheel (steel machined from solid) has been lightened to reduce inertia.
- The ECU (specific to racing) is from Magneti marelli (MF4M)

Because of the modern design of the Renault K4M engine, we are confident in having one of the very best S1600 engine today !!

Sorry, but we don't have any picture of the engine at the moment.
Maybe in a few days.

Best regards,

Jean-Yves HEITZ
Clio Kit Car S1600 project leader.
Renault Sport Technologies."




In other words, put again more sporty cams inside, higher compression ratio, shorter and wider íntake manifold, head work, exhaust with more lower back pressure and you will have it. But for this the engine needs to rev up higher which requests additional modifications from mecanical side as described. But I think such an engine isn´t drivable under public road conditions as you won´t have much torque below 4000 rpm...

Interesting find mate-not seen a technical summary on them before, cheers

Is a shame as you say that the output is so heavily biased towards peak revs. Have you played around much with gas flowing the internals on the block, or have you purely just done matching on the inlets and manifold?

So am i just being a tard-or is the k9k they refer to the 1.5 diesel lump?

 

[TimR26]

Lol @ 23bhp increase on a 1.4 not even a 172 would see that. Bet all that would bring you up to the figure Renault quote or slightly higher.

 

[jamesp24]

More than ££££ worth of exhaust and induction kit.I spent a fortune on my 1.4 made hardly any difference.

 

[natter07]

Thanks for all the comments. I think i'll just stick with exhaust air filter and focus more on the euro look of it at the moment then. Once im done with that i might look at an engine transplant or buying a 172.

 

[Oliver_K4M]

I think that´s the best if you can´t do a lot by yourself.