Moving Foward as a Club

[Nice Try Good Bye!!]

In view of all the recent statments, lets have a track or air field meeting which anyone with any car can attend, then all the people with theese wonderful cars which are the fastest can prove it. We could have proper tests around a track or straight followed by a rolling road report. Everyone is welcome, but of as we know lots of people will be busy that day, (we all know who). From the day that the wheel was invented people have been arguing over who is the fastest. Lets make Cliosport differnt, every statment we make should have proof, and what better way than having thoose who dont belive present.
If you have somthing good SHOW US, DONT TELL US.
As a club we could book a skid pan and have fun and learn something that my save lives.
We Could have meetings in differnt areas so people dont have to travel 100s of miles, but it needs SUPPORT not just words.
ClioSport should be about freindly competition in safe conditions, not a web based slanging match.

A lot of people work very hard to make the club what it is, often without any compilment.
Lets reward there hard work by taking things foward, rather that backward.

 

[Jas]

Well said Mark.

We always need help in organising these things, so step forward those who dont mind pitching in! Now the club is bigger its a lot harder organising and running it.

We should also have some news on the Bedford track day hopefully later this week.

 

[Rich-D]

Mark -

What a superb idea mate!

Then these people can prove how good/bad their cars really are for real, instead of hiding behind a keyboard & mouse!

 

[Eddd]

Good ideas there. If anybody is travelling to the continent and is interested in doing the Nurburgring just get in touch with me. Id be happy to give an introdution to the place. I can be reached at: sport_evo@hotmail.com

When the flag drops the bullsh*t stops!

Ed

 

[geoff_clio182]

We are starting to get small meetings together in certain areas and I can only see these grow in size. In the past 2 months we have had several meetings in Milton Keynes and Northampton and these will carry on in the near future.

If anyone feels left out then you have the Meetings area to organise a meet in your area!

 

[Nick Read]

Well if you want to test power/acceleration/speed etc, the best way is the old favourite, the standing 1/4 mile. Which lots of us do. You do get drivers (of other cars, not Clios) who are what I call track day toffs - usually have a subscription to Evo and believe that only track time can prove a car - luckily they also have the money to do it and the resources to overhaul the car every 1000 miles. And if you dont want to take it on the track and challenge them there, instead of the road or the dragstrip, then they have won by default.

Track days are fun but Im not convinced that they are a way of benchmarking a cars performance. For example, on the first track day I went on, I caned a BMW M Coupe plenty. Doesnt mean I had the better all round car though. A good way of learning how to drive a bit faster though.

You can tell a lot from your 1/4 mile terminal speed and elapsed time.

 

[teady172]

I guess Im a toff then, Evo subscription nall!

I dont agree with you so I guess your theory is right! How the hell can ragging your car up a 1/4 mile strip tell you about the true performance of your car? What about cornering speed, grip and top end speed, to name a few!

 

[Nick Read]

hehe I had you down as a toff anyway mate! What Im saying is that yes a track day is a good all round test but it is not the be all and end all, as I proved when an M Coupe couldnt keep the pace with me on the track.

I honestly think that track driving is so much about an individual drivers skills and not the car they are ragging, that it cannot be a fair comparison of two different cars. On top of which its an expensive hobby, and people shouldnt have to feel like losers just cos they cant afford either the track day itself or the repair bills afterwards. At the end of the day, we all drive road cars, not track cars. On the open road is where my car is at its best not on an endless sequence of repeated bends. On something like the Nurburgring you have a true test of a car. On a track day you have only an approximation of real driving.

Given that an accepted benchmark of performance is the standing quarter mile that has been with us for years, why not use it? In the world of performance testing, I can think of no other measure that no-one will argue with. Reviewers and magazines come and go, a lot of the upmarket performance mags, eg Evo etc (and yes I do read it myself) seem to proclaim the latest hot hatch as the best thing since sliced bread then a couple of months later drop it like a stone when something better comes along -in other words newer and more trendy. Only once a car is old enough to be found in the private sales and is no longer any kind of sales threat to the latest hot hatch does it become a good car again in the eyes of the motoring press - eg Williams, Pug 205 GTi etc. I guess Im a cynic.

 

[Captain Slarty]

I am errin on the side of Nick here

it all depends what you want though.

the standing quarter is the best test of accleration there is.

but the tracks are the best test of driver and handling..

do both if ya can afford it

Joe

 

[BenR]

Hmmm, being a track day regular....i agree that its more driving than the motor. But once youve done 2 1/4 miles.....there is only so much enjoyment you can get out of it.

I go to track days in my 20yr old MK1 XR2, 1600cc 8V (parallel too!!) with a whopping 92bhp!!! (standard is 86!, i have done engine work).
i ruguarly take porsches, beemers, escorts, cavsand even hot hatch MK2 XR2s etc etc and the like.
i love it and would do that way more than a 15sec 1/4 mile. But that just me.

As far as EVO mag goes (you all know how i feel), a bunch of ROCK APES!

i have never read some much be people who know so little.

 

[chris172]

If you want "my car is faster than yours" then 1/4 mile it. That will prove the power of it only. Otherwise all a track day will do is tell how good a driver you are. The same car with different drivers will perform in different ways due to all sorts of factors. I dont think its a true test of a car... I would love to see Schumacher in a Minardi though!!

 

[teady172]

Doing a 1/4 mile time is also down to driver skill, theres a guy at crail with a 172 that struggled to get into the 15s. Hardly a true reflection of the car!

BTW I dont mean to sound so argumentative!

 

[Eddd]

I did 8 laps of the ring yesterday and must agree that track driving is more of a test of the driver than the cars power. One particularly well driven Audi A2 comes to mind. He was flying!

The ss 1/4 mile is indicative of a cars power but surely the fun only starts at the terminal velocity unless there are serious curves around. Heading down to Schwedenkreuz yesterday I was seeing 200+ on the speedo...

These cars are about handling and brakes as well. Horsepower and torque are only a part of the overall package.

 

[Nick Read]

Fair enough Teady, there *is* a fine art to quarter miling but once youre fairly consistent its just a question of how much power you can lay down. you could put my wife in a 172 and shed be in the 15s on her second run. Put her in a Metro Studio 2 and it doesnt matter how good she is, shes not gonna quarter in under half a minute!

Yes driver skill on the 1/4mile will give variations of 2 seconds either way but thats it. On a track a good driver can lap an XR2 just as quick as an RS Turbo and theres a big difference in power and torque. A bad track driver will put in bad times whatever they drive on the track. IMHO!