Moving to a 182 from a 190 bhp Mk 1?

[Matty]

Being an owner of a Mark 1 Clio that has been tuned to 190.2 bhp, I am suprised that the 182 runs so low when RR'd.

I am having the dilema of thorwing over a grand on my car to sort out all the rust and paint issues to make it tidy again or sell up (probably as parts) and put that money plus what I would have spent towards a 182.

How come 182's are so low. RR at 160 bhp at the fly before mods is some way off 182PS !!!! And judging by this a stainless exhaust, decat and better filter plus remap is required to get the car near to what it should have been out of the factory.

Sorry if it is a well talked about topic as I have not been on many forums for ages and only started seriously considering getting rid of my Mk 1. Air con and a newer less rust prone car would be an advantage but it seems I would be going a step back from a power point of view and having to spend a lot more money on mods?

 

[Munson]

160 seems very low. Based only on what I've read on here over the years, most should be making over 170? Some say they vary a lot. Renault say it's 182ps. It clearly isn't. Clever little number tweaks to market the car. I'd be surprised if the new Clio 200 was making much more than a genuine 190.

What matters is how the car drives though. A 182 will not feel quick if you're coming from a lighter car with more power.

 

[Mike_182]

I thought it was 160bhp ATW for the 182...

However, whether you should or not depends on your priorities. I tool around in my S because there's sod all that's faster, but I couldn't use it every day. I've got another car to do that in. I know it's never going to be as fast, but it has a mahoosive stereo, big comfortable armchairs and makes my breakfast in the morning (OK, that's pushing it!) and as such I enjoy it for the fact that it's never going to let me down.

This is where we all hate Justin for his V10 Audi that's as happy taking you to work as it is scaring small children and offending people with it's colour.

 

[Matty]

I do love my car apart from the shabby bits and the fiancee hates it so at least I get it to myself. Where as a 182 is perhaps a bit nicer for girls so she would nick that a lot. I would probably appreciate the air con too.

Things I found better on my current Clio where exhaust filter and chip, followed by coilovers and 4 pots. I presume it is similar on a 182. Then it took loads of money to get it 2 litred and running what it is.

If I got a 182 I presume my current OZ Ultralegerra wheels would not fit as sure they are 37 ET. Aren't cupped 182's 45 ET? Are hubs different on Cupped 182's to standard? I would probably replace stock suspension for coilovers when I get chance on a 182 and so extra money on Cup suspension would be wasted unless there are more tuning options on a Cupped 182 due to sizing of components?

Is there a good buyers guide anywhere or somewhere I can get up to speed on differences, recalls and choice mods?

Thanks in advance. Hate to ask and prefer to search but not always easy....

 

[Martin_172]

you get good ones and bad ones my 172 made 173bhp when standard lol

 

[Mike_182]

From experience, Renault got the Cup suspension spot on. If you can, get it. Unless you're tracking it I think you're hard pushed to get a better balance between going fast and having bones at the end of the journey!

Brakes again are good on the road, but if you track it I found that a completely standard setup ran out of puff after 8 hot laps of Donington. Braided hoses and decent pads fix this.

Wheels, people prefer Turinis, but OZ Ultralegs are good. Not sure on offsets though!

As far as making it go faster is concerned, there's not a lot. Remap/Maxogen/Exhaust see the quick bhp, but to go further than that you're looking at matching/porting/cams/TBs.

If you're after a hardcore rapid car, I think the 182 is a bad way to go - unless you need the back seats and bootspace then go for an S1 Lotus or something because it sounds like you're wanting a car of that sort of go/handling/character.

The 182 is really the t**t's car you can take shopping, not an out-and-out race car with plates.

 

[Matty]

I thought it was 160bhp ATW for the 182...

However, whether you should or not depends on your priorities. I tool around in my S because there's sod all that's faster, but I couldn't use it every day. I've got another car to do that in. I know it's never going to be as fast, but it has a mahoosive stereo, big comfortable armchairs and makes my breakfast in the morning (OK, that's pushing it!) and as such I enjoy it for the fact that it's never going to let me down.

This is where we all hate Justin for his V10 Audi that's as happy taking you to work as it is scaring small children and offending people with it's colour.

Got the 160 bhp figure from a Trophy RR Graph before and after remap. 162.3 bhp standard at the fly apparently.

Trouble is I used to find on forums there are lots of people who quote figures for things but RR is generally the only real indicator and that can vary. So would take that figure of 162.3 as being more accurate than figures people think they are running. Just like people mixing PS and BHP figures up and because it is badged as a 182 it must have 182 bhp..... actually PS but still no car is ever as a manufacturer states, especially when in need of a good service.

 

[Mike_182]

Got the 160 bhp figure from a Trophy RR Graph before and after remap. 162.3 bhp standard at the fly apparently.

Trouble is I used to find on forums there are lots of people who quote figures for things but RR is generally the only real indicator and that can vary. So would take that figure of 162.3 as being more accurate than figures people think they are running. Just like people mixing PS and BHP figures up and because it is badged as a 182 it must have 182 bhp..... actually PS but still no car is ever as a manufacturer states, especially when in need of a good service.

The 162 will be wheel, as that figure sounds about right for that.

And PS/BHP aren't a million miles out - 182PS is ~180BHP.

 

[Matty]

From experience, Renault got the Cup suspension spot on. If you can, get it. Unless you're tracking it I think you're hard pushed to get a better balance between going fast and having bones at the end of the journey!

Brakes again are good on the road, but if you track it I found that a completely standard setup ran out of puff after 8 hot laps of Donington. Braided hoses and decent pads fix this.

Wheels, people prefer Turinis, but OZ Ultralegs are good. Not sure on offsets though!

As far as making it go faster is concerned, there's not a lot. Remap/Maxogen/Exhaust see the quick bhp, but to go further than that you're looking at matching/porting/cams/TBs.

If you're after a hardcore rapid car, I think the 182 is a bad way to go - unless you need the back seats and bootspace then go for an S1 Lotus or something because it sounds like you're wanting a car of that sort of go/handling/character.

The 182 is really the tw*t's car you can take shopping, not an out-and-out race car with plates.

Yeah I nearly went for Turinis but chose graphite grey Ultralegerras instead. And always liked small hatches from a practical point of view and cost, replacing stock items for better as they wear out, hence mods on my current car after 8 1/2 years of ownership.

 

[Mike_182]

I guess it's horses for courses but with the money spent on 'upgrade' items on a hot hatch you could have something which really will set the world on fire.

It's an opinion standpoint, but mine is that a hot hatch doesn't need to be made near undriveable on the road, as it's still going to get it's ass handed to it by bigger machinery. Enjoy it for what it is and all that - but by all accounts there are areas for improvement on the 182 and you can turn them into near Cup racer territory!

 

[Matty]

The 162 will be wheel, as that figure sounds about right for that.

And PS/BHP aren't a million miles out - 182PS is ~180BHP.

Nope at the fly:

http://cliotrophy.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7763

This is one of the main factors I don't use forums anymore as rather than state facts people guess or make general uninformed statements, or latch on to what someone else states. No offense meant BTW

I know my BHP and torque because I know the work done on my car and have the RR graph to prove (only a historic value though as wear and tear will affect that).

 

[Mike_182]

I'd hazard that that's a very pessimistic dyno or the car desparately needed a good service. My 182 with a Yozzasport exhaust ran more than that!

 

[Russ_16v]

The 162 will be wheel, as that figure sounds about right for that.

And PS/BHP aren't a million miles out - 182PS is ~180BHP.

My other half has a healthy 05 plate 182 on 39k, which is std and that kicked out 148bhp @ the wheels if that helps

 

[Mike_182]

Bugger!

 

[WILLIE]

It difficult to judge which are good one's and bad one's. Some roller's over read and vise verser.

At the last East Anglia Meet 182's made anything from 160-177bhp but at another meet from other members up north they made around 175-185bhp.

As the rolling road's vary over the country it's best to take them witha pinch of salt.

The last meet I could remember where you could spot a ''good'' one was at the Surrey RR meet. Most the 182's made around 170bhp bar one, which made around 184 near standard.

Don't let the low reading's put you off. There's alot more to the 1*2 then output power.

 

[.Ben.]

...one of the main factors I don't use forums anymore as rather than state facts people guess or make general uninformed statements, or latch on to what someone else states. No offense meant BTW

One of the main reasons I take RR results with a pinch of salt is that, in isolation, they mean mean f*ck all. *

The only option you have is to try a few 182's and make your own mind up with your own experiences, don't base your decision on potentially biased equipment or a forum concensus...





* Apart from as a guide to power/ torque outputs and when tuning on the same RR.

 

[Mike_182]

Nope at the fly:

http://cliotrophy.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7763

This is one of the main factors I don't use forums anymore as rather than state facts people guess or make general uninformed statements, or latch on to what someone else states. No offense meant BTW

None taken, as you're clearly doing your fair share of it!

The fact of the matter is, you'll never make any new car feel like your 190bhp Mk1. They don't make cars that flimsy any more, so you're instantly detatched from that driving experience which is going to be very unique.

The only way you can decide what the next step for you is, is to sit down with your budget, line up a list of the cars that you like that fall into that budget and go kick some tyres. 2 of each is a good start, because if you drive a s**t one of something then it may put you off, where you may be missing something in the drive. I had exactly the same with mine - drove one completely standard and was left feeling a bit bored after 10 minutes. Drove one a few weeks later with an aftermarket exhaust and it came alive, hence buying one myself!

 

[Mike_182]

One of the main reasons I take RR results with a pinch of salt is that, in isolation, they mean mean f*ck all. *
* Apart from as a guide to power/ torque outputs and when tuning on the same RR.

Don't even think you need the caveat, as they do really mean jaff all. I'd use it purely to see that I was getting the most out of my money for mods, and that's it. The rest of it is down to how loudly my passenger screams and what my arse-dyno says, because for me, my arse-dyno is the most accurate measure of fun that there is!

 

[Matty]

Going to check a 182 and Trophy this weekend so hopefully will get to have a test drive and find out for myself. Is there a good buying guide anywhere for known faults, recall and service information.

Also any lists of proven mods? Is maxogen still best regarded ik or could I reuse my bmc cda from my current car? Fk automtive and h&r still good for coilovers?

 

[Mike_182]

Going to check a 182 and Trophy this weekend so hopefully will get to have a test drive and find out for myself. Is there a good buying guide anywhere for known faults, recall and service information.

Where's the Trophy at?

 

[Greeny.]

Juding from our RR day most 182's make from 170-180bhp with mild mods, from the same RR a 6 month old standard 1.2 turbo mk3 made its book figures.

Maxogen is great but alot of money, a new V6 Espace box will do the same job and is only £60 from Renault, these were used by the Cup Racers as well.

H&R are decent for coils, never used them myself as I used to have a set of Gaz Golds. Vmaxx coilovers are popular due to the price tag and are really good for the money, but dont come with adjustable dampening.

Have you not thought about re-shelling your engine?

 

[Matty]

Where's the Trophy at?

I was going to take a look at ds cars in Lichfield but both are no longer appearing on autotrader or their website so presume sold.

 

[Tav]

My car made 179bhp or there abouts. It's a well used 25k mile example. Done at a rolling road day where every standard car either made it's book figure or came within a few bhp. Couple of Integra's were 3-4bhp down. VR6 Golf's were slightly up with better exhaust systems. Even the Impreza's made their JDM book figures.

There must be something wrong with the Clio if it's almost 20bhp down on factory claims.

Car was running a little rich at highers RPM's so there's some performance to be found. Thread here: http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=432203

Someone will probably tell me the rolling road is wrong but meh, heard enough of that. In comparison to everyone elses results the Clio did fine