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My before and after tuning graphs
- Thread starter ja.jack
- Start date
looks that way 
But if your going to look at things and be overly cirtical, there are several points to look at.
-more drag is calculated progressively along the runs, almost matching the 'gains'.
-Where the remap adds a few bhp peak torque, the manifold adds correspondinly as much peak torque.
-Point of peak power and torque drops with each mod, indicating an increase in efficiency.
All over though were looking at such small percentile changes that it is disappointing, especially for me so as Jim is possibly the most critical person you could have as a customer, however it looks as if his car is down on power on a whole and it just didnt respond well to the mods.
Unlucky that it happened.....and it happened to Jim
But if your going to look at things and be overly cirtical, there are several points to look at.
-more drag is calculated progressively along the runs, almost matching the 'gains'.
-Where the remap adds a few bhp peak torque, the manifold adds correspondinly as much peak torque.
-Point of peak power and torque drops with each mod, indicating an increase in efficiency.
All over though were looking at such small percentile changes that it is disappointing, especially for me so as Jim is possibly the most critical person you could have as a customer, however it looks as if his car is down on power on a whole and it just didnt respond well to the mods.
Unlucky that it happened.....and it happened to Jim
yup, a 6+bhp gain at the wheels is similar to what you would see at the lower end of the gains scale for these mods.
I'm going to go sulk and eat my pad thai.
You can ONLY measure wheel HP correctly, i dont see how they can measure wheel bhp inaccuractly and end up with an accurate fly figure.
Speak to powerstation about how the rollers work, i asked about my wheel hp figure on my seat ibiza cupra.
140bhp at the wheels and 210bhp at the fly.
Dont think a FWD car is losing 70bhp through the transmission.
Do you
Why do i need to ask them, any physicist will tell you that it is impossible to measure the only measurable quantity, get it wrong.........then crunch some numbers and come up with a correct answer. Its illogical to assume x+y=3 if you dont know what x and y are.
What they tell you is what you want to hear if they cant be arsed to sort out their rollers.
Rollers measure torque at the wheels, they dont do anything else.........everything else is a calculatiton from those original numbers.
Evo 8 Jap Crap
ja.jacks car pulled 135bhp at the wheels with the mods done.
A relatively standard 172 (just an exhaust) pulled 146bhp at the wheels.
jacks car is a 182 so should have more power to start with yet with all the mods he's 10bhp down on a 172.
So is there something wrong with his car?
A relatively standard 172 (just an exhaust) pulled 146bhp at the wheels.
jacks car is a 182 so should have more power to start with yet with all the mods he's 10bhp down on a 172.
So is there something wrong with his car?
it depends how they've got their rolling road configured
i've been banging on about this for ages, a rolling road is only good for before and after testing, thats all
rolling road days are pointless, all it shows is who's got the most powerful car, but it won't tell you the EXACT power output as it can't be 100% accurate
i've been banging on about this for ages, a rolling road is only good for before and after testing, thats all
rolling road days are pointless, all it shows is who's got the most powerful car, but it won't tell you the EXACT power output as it can't be 100% accurate
As has already been said, rolling roads won't tell you what your car has. They are only useful for relative comparisons when done on the same road, same day, same conditions.
My original 172 ran anywhere between 159bhp and 169bhp with no change to the car, just different rolling roads.
cup 182 mit stripes
I've test driven a 182 ff and a 172 ff in the last few weeks. One in a garage one private.182 was standard, 172 had big exhaust and maxogen.
Hand on heart, my cup definately had more torqe than both. It was apparent straight away. So ,The One, the obvious conclusion is that there is nothing wrong with my Cup.
I did'nt mean to damn Ben's manifold by faint praise. On the contrary, every one should buy one immediately. Must be one of the most cost effective mods available. I'm only saying not every car will gain 10+bhp.
Hand on heart, my cup definately had more torqe than both. It was apparent straight away. So ,The One, the obvious conclusion is that there is nothing wrong with my Cup.
I did'nt mean to damn Ben's manifold by faint praise. On the contrary, every one should buy one immediately. Must be one of the most cost effective mods available. I'm only saying not every car will gain 10+bhp.
No body said they do though...yet in every thread they are mentioned, you say "dont bother" or similar.
Whats all this about rolling roads not telling you what you have?!
They can be very accurate and repeatable. Most set-ups have self correcting functions which automatically correct recorded torque and calculated power with SAE factors. This eliminates day-to-day variations due to climate change. most errors come from the uncontrolable fact that we are transmitting the force through a non standardised drive-system...namely tyres. Unless the operator can use the same tie-down techinique and apply the same load every time, then of course there will be slight variation. This isnt necessarily massive though, and doesnt render a chassis dyno useless for real data collection.
The other important factor is the control programme behind it, and the quality of the load cell/strain gauge.
All in all they are a very useful tool.
Whats all this about rolling roads not telling you what you have?!
They can be very accurate and repeatable. Most set-ups have self correcting functions which automatically correct recorded torque and calculated power with SAE factors. This eliminates day-to-day variations due to climate change. most errors come from the uncontrolable fact that we are transmitting the force through a non standardised drive-system...namely tyres. Unless the operator can use the same tie-down techinique and apply the same load every time, then of course there will be slight variation. This isnt necessarily massive though, and doesnt render a chassis dyno useless for real data collection.
The other important factor is the control programme behind it, and the quality of the load cell/strain gauge.
All in all they are a very useful tool.
ChrisR
ClioSport Club Member
Nice to see them at last, as I said in previous threads it's your mid range that's been bumped up on the whole with a small peak increase.
Also see the post in my original thread, looks like later heads with the smaller ports + an RS manifold to start with means these have the smallest gains.
Also see the post in my original thread, looks like later heads with the smaller ports + an RS manifold to start with means these have the smallest gains.
cup 182 mit stripes
Dont think I'm unlucky stan, opposite I'd say, motor was just good to start with. Or years of experience have taught me how to run in a car.
I'm scanning the 'for sale' adds to get a spin in a 'phase fast' just to see how it compares, apart from that I'm looking forward like every one else to the new induction system.
I'm scanning the 'for sale' adds to get a spin in a 'phase fast' just to see how it compares, apart from that I'm looking forward like every one else to the new induction system.
128bhp @ the wheels to begin with?
I was under the impression most 'stock' 182s can pull 140/150 if not 155!
I was under the impression most 'stock' 182s can pull 140/150 if not 155!
M
mini-valver
TBH, 6bhp on a NA engine is a decent gain anyway, not to mention midrange torque increase shown in the graph. On the whole, "most" cars that have received the matched plenum and manifold arfe using the RSTuning map and so this may be a factor in reletively higher gains.
As you've said though, you CAN 'feel' the difference compared with a standard car.
As you've said though, you CAN 'feel' the difference compared with a standard car.
ChrisR
ClioSport Club Member
My RR graph from powerstation reckons 127bhp at the wheels and then 183 at the fly! Rediculously wrong imho.
But am going back to the same RR in May so might be able to see how things fair now, although the rollers were over reading approx 7% on that previous visit.
BTW which remap is it you have ja.jack? Grp N from who?
But am going back to the same RR in May so might be able to see how things fair now, although the rollers were over reading approx 7% on that previous visit.
BTW which remap is it you have ja.jack? Grp N from who?
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