you should book yourself onto a skid pan course.
you in theory should put the clutch down to get drive to all wheels and steer into the skid
My God!
You should try a skid pan course
ClioSport.net
Register a free account today to become a member!
Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission. Read more here.
Nearly lost it today!
- Thread starter MEDD
- Start date
My God!
You should try a skid pan course
ATS CUP'd Dynamique
^^ i did and thats what they said to do
i was obviously a very crappy course.. they said it was something to do with putting equal drive to all wheels :S...then you lift the clutch and power through
i was obviously a very crappy course.. they said it was something to do with putting equal drive to all wheels :S...then you lift the clutch and power through
ph1 172... Sold:(
I am completely scared to venture out onto public roads ever again, having read some of the replies to this problem.
One of the 1*2's selling points is it's edgy, adjustable handling.
The following is for fwd (lift off oversteer). RWD is a bit different because you can get lift-off and power-oversteer.
Even in the wet there usually has to be some loss of drive or sharp increase in steering input, to get oversteer. Exceptions would include a sudden change in grip on the road surface itself, normally thanks to the HGV driver's standard practice of 'necking'.
When momentum exceeds grip you need to redress the balance, if the rear end has gone then you need to be 101% not slowing down because that just unloads the rear even more, what little purchase the rear tyre is making will soon be gone.
Keep the throttle constant and correct the oversteer by reducing the steering input quickly but smoothly, if you get to neural steering and the skid rate is still increasing then wind on a bit of opossite lock; if you do this before you need to, or too much/violently then you'll end up in the 'tankslapper' scenario you have described (although to be fair if it was damp the pendulum effect has a lot more influence once the rear is moving, pushing the car side to side).
If at neutral steering the skid is calming, even if it's not actually stopped yet, you've done your job; the chassis is catching up with the forces it was experiencing and assuming you are still pointing in the direction you want to be travelling all will be well, if its not calming, or (gulp) still increasing, then you correct with opposite lock.
You should be able to feel when the front tyres are working harder than the rears, as the steering will feel heavier than it would in normal circumstances. When the weighting starts to feel normal you're getting there, when it starts to feel light you've probably got a tank slapper coming as you've gone too far. Of course you'll be able talk yourself through everything when you car starts stepping out 'out of the blue'.
If you can master the above as a correction technique you can start to get a feel for how much effort, time and distance is required to correct, or even maintain, small to moderate degrees of skid.
Until you are confident in the above I would not reccomend using power-correction, as it's just introducing another set of relativley extreme forces into an already out-of balance scenario.
Do not slam on the brakes. Do not put the clutch in; this would just remove all drive and control from your front wheels which you are relying on to put all your inputs into the car. How the hell it restores drive to all four wheels in a fwd car I can't even begin to imagine? Free-wheeling skid control FTW?
The first time I experienced oversteer it was by design on a large, quiet roundabout I know very well. It's a bit naughty but it's better to have lots of naughty experiences than be caught out by one bad one.
Everyone will have their own subtle slant, this is my best interpretation of what I do, through practice, and as has been advised to me by 'knowledgable' friends and family.
S.
ps ALWAYS DRIVE WITHIN YOUR OWN LIMITS, AND THOSE OF THE CAR. ALWAYS BEAR IN MIND THE WEATHER AND TRAFFIC CONDITIONS.
One of the 1*2's selling points is it's edgy, adjustable handling.
The following is for fwd (lift off oversteer). RWD is a bit different because you can get lift-off and power-oversteer.
Even in the wet there usually has to be some loss of drive or sharp increase in steering input, to get oversteer. Exceptions would include a sudden change in grip on the road surface itself, normally thanks to the HGV driver's standard practice of 'necking'.
When momentum exceeds grip you need to redress the balance, if the rear end has gone then you need to be 101% not slowing down because that just unloads the rear even more, what little purchase the rear tyre is making will soon be gone.
Keep the throttle constant and correct the oversteer by reducing the steering input quickly but smoothly, if you get to neural steering and the skid rate is still increasing then wind on a bit of opossite lock; if you do this before you need to, or too much/violently then you'll end up in the 'tankslapper' scenario you have described (although to be fair if it was damp the pendulum effect has a lot more influence once the rear is moving, pushing the car side to side).
If at neutral steering the skid is calming, even if it's not actually stopped yet, you've done your job; the chassis is catching up with the forces it was experiencing and assuming you are still pointing in the direction you want to be travelling all will be well, if its not calming, or (gulp) still increasing, then you correct with opposite lock.
You should be able to feel when the front tyres are working harder than the rears, as the steering will feel heavier than it would in normal circumstances. When the weighting starts to feel normal you're getting there, when it starts to feel light you've probably got a tank slapper coming as you've gone too far. Of course you'll be able talk yourself through everything when you car starts stepping out 'out of the blue'.
If you can master the above as a correction technique you can start to get a feel for how much effort, time and distance is required to correct, or even maintain, small to moderate degrees of skid.
Until you are confident in the above I would not reccomend using power-correction, as it's just introducing another set of relativley extreme forces into an already out-of balance scenario.
Do not slam on the brakes. Do not put the clutch in; this would just remove all drive and control from your front wheels which you are relying on to put all your inputs into the car. How the hell it restores drive to all four wheels in a fwd car I can't even begin to imagine? Free-wheeling skid control FTW?
The first time I experienced oversteer it was by design on a large, quiet roundabout I know very well. It's a bit naughty but it's better to have lots of naughty experiences than be caught out by one bad one.
Everyone will have their own subtle slant, this is my best interpretation of what I do, through practice, and as has been advised to me by 'knowledgable' friends and family.
S.
ps ALWAYS DRIVE WITHIN YOUR OWN LIMITS, AND THOSE OF THE CAR. ALWAYS BEAR IN MIND THE WEATHER AND TRAFFIC CONDITIONS.
Last edited:
RB 182
yeah i know thatt bit of road. sometimes get alot of diesel on the road from the bp truck stop over the road. sounds like fun though but i bet you didnt think it at the time
ATS CUP'd Dynamique
okay..i said something incorrect so can we just move on and ignore it and stop slagging my driving
ph1 172... Sold:(
okay..i said something incorrect so can we just move on and ignore it and stop slagging my driving
No one's saying anything about your driving.
This is one of those things where everyone's got someting to say.
However seeing as it quite literally could be a case of life or death, It's not just a case of "Yeah well I'd do it this way", it needs to be stressed what will work and what won't.
Some people are really pushing the power correction technique, and that's not wrong, but I couldn't promote that to someone relatively inexperienced (as the tread starter seems to be) either.
Hey if it works for you then all good, but I bet it'd be exciting to take a passenger ride with you.
Clio 182 & Saxo VTR
Handbrake to lock up the rear wheels, power down to increase direction of traction and put your windows down and music up for looks and to make it look like you lifted off on purpose, good luck.
What is this necking you speak of?
Spot on with the rest of that post. Agree that using power to pull out of a slide could make things worst if you don't know what you're doing (hence why I've never tried it! although I hope I'd have the presence of mind to do it if I had too).
The one time I've had a proper oversteer moment on the road (that was'nt deliberately induced lifting of on a roundabout) was on a quite quick downhill bend. Momemtum rather than lifting off made the back step out on a damp road. Luckily I realised what was happening and consciously kept a steady throttle and counter steered a little and the car straightened up. I'm sure if I'd lifted off when I felt it go I would have spun, as I could really feel the car was up on its toes.
ph1 172... Sold:(
Necking is the reason you skid on deisel spills and not petrol spills. Cost concious HGV drivers fill theit tanks (at there special derv pumps) all the way up the filler necks. Less time at the pumps, it all adds up etc
Go round a roundabout in a freshly filled HGV and derv spills out of the breather tube and onto the highway, just waiting to catch out our poor thread starter here.
S.
Go round a roundabout in a freshly filled HGV and derv spills out of the breather tube and onto the highway, just waiting to catch out our poor thread starter here.
S.
ph1 172... Sold:(
Speeding doesn't matter, it depends on the situation. Just cause the speed limit is 40MPH doesn't mean every corner/roundabout can be taken at that speed. If your losing it at that speed your either a crap driver/ you need new tyres or your cars cat C.
Why didn't you steer into the skid? Also just because E.S.P was on doesn't mean it'll save you.
If only you'd had a cup
Andrew
RB 182
to be fair to Medd i use that bit of road atleast a few times a week and 40mph isnt taking any risks on it at all. at that speed on that bit of road i wouldnt have expected that to happen so it was just unlucky i think
ph1 172... Sold:(
Don't understand the cat c bit? When he lost the back end I don't think he literally meant it ended up going down the road without him?
The back end can step out because of mitigating factors, saying someone is a cr@p driver when they're asking for advice isnt too helpful imo.
Pretty much most modern tyres should be ok at 40 on the kind of road section I think they are talking about.
The back end can step out because of mitigating factors, saying someone is a cr@p driver when they're asking for advice isnt too helpful imo.
Pretty much most modern tyres should be ok at 40 on the kind of road section I think they are talking about.
realnumber 1
ClioSport Club Member
Clio 172 Sport Ph2
StevieGreenstuff - very very good advice - very similar to what I advised albeit without the power aspect! LOL! You are quite correct about the power bit tho - it is possible to straighten up without additional power but it just finishes the whole manouvere nicely if you manage it with - I suspect no-one was watching this fella's mishap though to watch a nice exit!! LOL!
What I will say though is that those people who mention tyres do have a VERY valid point. Again speaking from experience - ok different car but similar circumstances - lift off oversteer is liftoff oversteer at the end of the day....I had a a set of Eagle F1 tyres on the front of my Bora & had a set of some very cheap dodgy Champiro GT (Kwik Fit sold I believe - says it all really - after I found this out they got binned!!) on the arse end - simply because they came with a set of alloys I got with the car and took thousands of miles (40000mls +) to wear down to anywhere near the minimum so didnt bother changing them. I now fully respect the cheap ditchfinders versus quality tyre argument!!!LOL! I used to be able to approach this certain roundabout near me in Formby when it had been raining (near Tescos incase anyone knows it) at a very sensible/normal speed 15/20mph, lift off suddenly as I went to turn into the store and without fail the backend used to step out a treat....sometimes it would step out that much that I had to go round the roundabout a second time to get it lined up for the exit I'd just missed because FULL opposite lock & foot down wouldnt get it back in time although it did make for an interesting FWD drift of sorts (ex-girlfriend never seemed impressed tho!!)!!!
I decided to test out another make of tyre, which was in all fairness was a bit wider than what I was using (width of tyres in wet weather for peoples reference doesnt actually make a great deal of difference) just because they happily fitted on my 8.5" rims (225/40/18 --> 255x35x18).
I can now approach the same roundabout at the same speed or more & that back end will NOT step out no matter what I try to do....now the whole car just slides over......just goes to show the difference tyres can make - incidentally the tyres I've now got the arse end are Michelin Pilot Sports. Also since then the back end has never stepped out on any corner in the wet or dry & believe me I've tried to provoke it - whereas before driving in the wet was VERY entertaining! LOL!
Apologies for the length of that.....something I keep saying to women I meet!! LOL!
Anyway - practise makes perfect so go find an empty decent sized roundabout & have some fun!
What I will say though is that those people who mention tyres do have a VERY valid point. Again speaking from experience - ok different car but similar circumstances - lift off oversteer is liftoff oversteer at the end of the day....I had a a set of Eagle F1 tyres on the front of my Bora & had a set of some very cheap dodgy Champiro GT (Kwik Fit sold I believe - says it all really - after I found this out they got binned!!) on the arse end - simply because they came with a set of alloys I got with the car and took thousands of miles (40000mls +) to wear down to anywhere near the minimum so didnt bother changing them. I now fully respect the cheap ditchfinders versus quality tyre argument!!!LOL! I used to be able to approach this certain roundabout near me in Formby when it had been raining (near Tescos incase anyone knows it) at a very sensible/normal speed 15/20mph, lift off suddenly as I went to turn into the store and without fail the backend used to step out a treat....sometimes it would step out that much that I had to go round the roundabout a second time to get it lined up for the exit I'd just missed because FULL opposite lock & foot down wouldnt get it back in time although it did make for an interesting FWD drift of sorts (ex-girlfriend never seemed impressed tho!!)!!!
I decided to test out another make of tyre, which was in all fairness was a bit wider than what I was using (width of tyres in wet weather for peoples reference doesnt actually make a great deal of difference) just because they happily fitted on my 8.5" rims (225/40/18 --> 255x35x18).
I can now approach the same roundabout at the same speed or more & that back end will NOT step out no matter what I try to do....now the whole car just slides over......just goes to show the difference tyres can make - incidentally the tyres I've now got the arse end are Michelin Pilot Sports. Also since then the back end has never stepped out on any corner in the wet or dry & believe me I've tried to provoke it - whereas before driving in the wet was VERY entertaining! LOL!
Apologies for the length of that.....something I keep saying to women I meet!! LOL!
Anyway - practise makes perfect so go find an empty decent sized roundabout & have some fun!
