Neutralizing body roll on a 172? help appreciated.

[Andrewclio]

I await a discusion on 2 and 3 way damper setups ..... but let me buy in some popcorn first. (Not aimed at you andrew )

Haha! Tbh I'm still learning as I'm going along, so not getting into it either!ha

 

[KevF182]

The levels of misunderstanding of what suspension does are always highlighted in threads like this .

Yeah, and the basics have been done to death in CS forum, so it shouldn't be too hard to understand either

 

[Tony Hunter]

Lol.

That was to post 34, not you Andrew, just incase you get upset.

 

[...]

Always tempted to disconnect the front arb on a wet race, but never got around to it yet.

Go test in the wet ,raceday isnt the time to find out .....

When we have tried it gained marginally but lost consistancy and feel on turn in ..... however that could have been overcome with time

 

[Andrewclio]

Always tempted to disconnect the front arb on a wet race, but never got around to it yet.

Don't quote me on this, but when I did the rally back in dec a scrutineer form the Msa came over for a chat and I think he had something to do with the clio cups racers, he said in really wet condition they disconnected the arb and also loosened the top mount bolts on the rear suspension to loosen the back end in really wet conditions

 

[KevF182]

RE disconnecting front bar - Not done so in the clio but in the 205, for me it lost more than it gained, felt like it needed more damping to control diagonal pitching into the corner.

 

[Tony Hunter]

Never had a wet test day tbh, plus I can still keep up/beat the others, and I wouldn't want to have mess about with the suspension too much.
Just really be interesting, to feel what it's like.

 

[...]

Never had a wet test day tbh, plus I can still keep up/beat the others, and I wouldn't want to have mess about with the suspension too much.
Just really be interesting, to feel what it's like.

Wet test days are brilliant unless your the one on the spanners getting shitty.

You need to change the way you drive and your line with the arb off .... in my opinion anyway

 

[Filters]

Some dicky advice going on early in this thread in my opinion... but then, reasuringly, a few with knowhow have chimed in. Front and rear suspension geometry is designed to give a Roll Centre height. That and the cars inherant Center of Gravity are arguably the most important factors relating to body roll, but since they are not not easily tuned with "upgrades" people don't get too bothered with understanding them. But spring rate and ARB rates clearly both reduce roll if they are increased (and can adjust under/oversteer if not balanced front/back)

I'll just add that you could help us by saying what your comparing your car with - what other performance cars you have had, or have been in that you wanted your car to be more like? You seem to have a good (typical mildly upgraded) road set-up.There's no single "upgrade" that would make a big improvement to roll, as its a tin-top with a high C of G after all.

You could try the Eibach rear bar, and/or Koni shocks, but if you're serious you should be looking at fully adjustable coilovers designed for track use. But for a road car, I'll say you're better off fine tuning what you've already got first, choosing stiffer tyres and playing with pressures.

Cheers for the input Kev. Much appreciated
I am looking to make more fast road/track orientated that it is now.

("not sure if you can call them "Performance cars")
Comparing it against my old saxo vts on spax shocks and springs followed by a 106 gti track car (kw coilovers, stripped, caged with a few "light" engine mods) Though for the last 4 years I've been in the sportsbike game I'm now making a return to cars thanks to a few injuries.

It feels somewhere in between the two handling wise...more towards the vts. I don't get an overly "balanced" or enthusiastic feeling from the set up that's on there currently mid corner. Part of my unhappyness with the amount of body roll and "wallowing" feeling that I am experiencing is exactly as a few other have stated, it lacks any real responsive feel transitioning through a fast left and right corner combos and a fair bit of understeer in tighter slower corners. Don't get me wrong, it handles better than standard and goes well....but It could be alot better than it is and thats a fact.

From everyones input so far I'm feeling the consensus is......
-Shock damper and spring rates could be improoved.
-Weight removed
-Geometry set up properly.
-Better tyre choice(currently on proxe4's - i know...i know! :dapprove
-If im still a fussy tw@ try ARB options?

I want to go about things the right way and can see others on here clearly have gone the right way with track mods for 172/182's so thought it was worth seeking the right advice before getting stuck in and opening a can of worms for myself.

 

[Steven103]

Yeah, and the basics have been done to death

Is it not an absence of understanding of the absolute fundamentals (in loads of examples, not just a forum or vehicle dynamics) which leads to common misconceptions & then slightly iffy views after that?

I might have misunderstood you, in which case I agree the spec of popular fast road setups are well covered.

Great thread for showing there's a lot of scope for road condition & driver preference though. Tony, if disconnecting the FARB in the wet does backfire, you could turn it into a series of informative videos for CS , with part one being the "no ABS fuse" (apologies if my memory is incorrect and that video wasn't burpspeed) video :rasp:

 

[Tony Hunter]

Lol, the old abs fuse.
Jay-" I'll take this out and you take it for a couple of laps.

Me- "ok. Doh!
Things not do.

 

[KevF182]

Cheers for the input Kev. Much appreciated
I am looking to make more fast road/track orientated that it is now.

("not sure if you can call them "Performance cars")
Comparing it against my old saxo vts on spax shocks and springs followed by a 106 gti track car (kw coilovers, stripped, caged with a few "light" engine mods) Though for the last 4 years I've been in the sportsbike game I'm now making a return to cars thanks to a few injuries.

It feels somewhere in between the two handling wise...more towards the vts. I don't get an overly "balanced" or enthusiastic feeling from the set up that's on there currently mid corner. Part of my unhappyness with the amount of body roll and "wallowing" feeling that I am experiencing is exactly as a few other have stated, it lacks any real responsive feel transitioning through a fast left and right corner combos and a fair bit of understeer in tighter slower corners. Don't get me wrong, it handles better than standard and goes well....but It could be alot better than it is and thats a fact.

From everyones input so far I'm feeling the consensus is......
-Shock damper and spring rates could be improoved.
-Weight removed
-Geometry set up properly.
-Better tyre choice(currently on proxe4's - i know...i know! :dapprove
-If im still a fussy tw@ try ARB options?

I want to go about things the right way and can see others on here clearly have gone the right way with track mods for 172/182's so thought it was worth seeking the right advice before getting stuck in and opening a can of worms for myself.

Without trying it on better tyres it would be a waste, in my opinion, to go headlong into changing the suspension. It sounds to me like that's a big factor, especially if the tyres are quite new with lots of tread block remaining.