next gen rumours/news/facts

[Darren S]

Potato/potato

Graphics are good enough at the moment, obviously they will be better but now by much. Microsoft are now using the machine to its full potential and I don't see any point in rushing to replace it.

Funny that. When I went into the car buying section of Gran Turismo 1 on my PS1, I didn't think the rear end of my 1990 Toyota Supra looked bad when made up of about 40 blocky sprites. It looks utter horse now - so much so that I think my Nokia C2-01 could render a better job.

With no offense directed at you personally, please don't ever attain a position of authority within the games industry - especially one that encroaches on the PC market. With views like that, I may just have to hunt you down.....

Why is Sharky's opinion so valid? Does he work for for some high tech company?

Not questioning just curious

Sshhhhhhsh infidel!!! Do not speak ill of the chosen one. Sharky is god-like on threads like these - having the amazing ability (unlike myself, Royston and Scone) to never climb on that Soap-Box. Not forgetting that he actually knows what he's talking about!

It's interesting Andy, following on what we were talking about on PMs with console memory - as to what they will deem to 'be enough'? As we know, GDDR5 and similar is far from cheap - and to be cost effective for console buyers, that's going to be tricky. I did mention the idea of a daughterboard option for additional memory upgrades at a later date - like those of the Amiga days, but again I believe Andy was right in saying that it would never really work in the console environment. PC owners take future expansion as a definite requirement and plan for it accordingly. Consolers are happy with the WYSIWYG attitude to hardware and hence expansions on the base unit probably wouldn't sell well at all.

Going on about Royston's high real-time ray-tracing abilities - I think a realistic issue will be power consumption. It's common-place now to have decent PCs with a PSU rated at over 1,000w. Imagine the physical size and power usage of real-time abilties in a box? People would be demanding their own sub-station in the back garden and water cooling being fed from the mains in the street.

D.

 

[Munson]

I wouldn't get out of bed for 1000w

 

[Silent_Scone]

Power requirements will go down in years to come due to die shrink and phase changing. Ray tracing is just ridiculously intensive and takes Terabytes of data at any one time. It's still all frame by frame right now

 

[Darren S]

Power requirements will go down in years to come due to die shrink and phase changing. Ray tracing is just ridiculously intensive and takes Terabytes of data at any one time. It's still all frame by frame right now

Possibly. But with high end PCs, it's forever going up. Going for thinner dies will mean little if the clocks are five times as quick, with 16-cores onboard. They'll still generate a shitload of heat and consume a lot of power.

D.

 

[SharkyUK]

Sshhhhhhsh infidel!!! Do not speak ill of the chosen one. Sharky is god-like on threads like these - having the amazing ability (unlike myself, Royston and Scone) to never climb on that Soap-Box. Not forgetting that he actually knows what he's talking about!

LMFAO! Er... thanks for the kind words. I think. Compared to some folks out there I know very little but, then again, I do get to have a rewarding and enjoyable social life. As for yourself, Royston, Scone et al... seems to me you're all pretty clued up so no worries there. It's good to have a decent chat now and again with folks who do actually have a clue (instead of all the fanboiz shizzle you often get).

It's interesting Andy, following on what we were talking about on PMs with console memory - as to what they will deem to 'be enough'? As we know, GDDR5 and similar is far from cheap - and to be cost effective for console buyers, that's going to be tricky. I did mention the idea of a daughterboard option for additional memory upgrades at a later date - like those of the Amiga days, but again I believe Andy was right in saying that it would never really work in the console environment. PC owners take future expansion as a definite requirement and plan for it accordingly. Consolers are happy with the WYSIWYG attitude to hardware and hence expansions on the base unit probably wouldn't sell well at all.

Manufacturing cost is key, more so than ever given the current economic climate. The likes of Sony and Microsoft will want to be minimising the impact of any potential losses they make on the (console) hardware production (more so in the early phase of the console's life) and hoping that good support and good software titles keep the pennies rolling in over the lifetime of their product. Whilst gamers may measure a console's success by it's feature set, it's graphics capability, it's media capability, etc. - the only thing that matters at the end of the day is the software sales. This is ultimately where the money is made and what determines whether a console is successful or not. I'd imagine it's not easy trying to determine a sensible spec for a new system that offers both a good increase in performance over previous generations whilst minimising the risk of significant losses due to choosing the wrong components and/or the wrong price points.

I remember our chats regarding the future direction of PC / console hardware - cheers! As stated the idea of additional add-ons (daughterboards, memory packs, etc.) perhaps does seem like a reasonable idea. But the mindset of the mainstream console gamer (not necessarily the hardcore gamer) is typically as you point out above; which does suggest that any expansion items would not sell too well. Another couple of important reasons worth mentioning are those of development and fragmentation. Ask any serious console developer why they enjoy working on a given platform and they will say it's because of the challenge. The challenge of working on a FIXED platform and being able to work around system shortcomings. And being a fixed platform, there are many tricks that can be learnt to save a few precious processor cycles or to squeeze a few more FPS out of your latest Triple-A game. Once you start changing the fundamental structure of that system (by adding additional RAM for example) it is no longer a fixed platform as such. The developer then has to develop an additional branch of code that takes advantage of those systems/users who have said expansion module and this takes time, resource and is not necessarily a trivial thing to do. We then start to see things becoming fragmented - user A has a stock console, user B a console with expansion module X, user C with expansion module Y and so on. We are then getting into PC-like development territory where you suddenly have to cater for a plethora of different hardware combinations. Sure, DirectX API and similar do a great job in providing a common interface for a multitude of products in the PC domain but this would not work (in my opinion) for the console domain. I hope that makes sense... it's late. I'll elaborate more sometime if needs be! LOL!

 

[Darren S]

LMFAO! Er... thanks for the kind words. I think. Compared to some folks out there I know very little but, then again, I do get to have a rewarding and enjoyable social life. As for yourself, Royston, Scone et al... seems to me you're all pretty clued up so no worries there. It's good to have a decent chat now and again with folks who do actually have a clue (instead of all the fanboiz shizzle you often get).


Manufacturing cost is key, more so than ever given the current economic climate. The likes of Sony and Microsoft will want to be minimising the impact of any potential losses they make on the (console) hardware production (more so in the early phase of the console's life) and hoping that good support and good software titles keep the pennies rolling in over the lifetime of their product. Whilst gamers may measure a console's success by it's feature set, it's graphics capability, it's media capability, etc. - the only thing that matters at the end of the day is the software sales. This is ultimately where the money is made and what determines whether a console is successful or not. I'd imagine it's not easy trying to determine a sensible spec for a new system that offers both a good increase in performance over previous generations whilst minimising the risk of significant losses due to choosing the wrong components and/or the wrong price points.

I remember our chats regarding the future direction of PC / console hardware - cheers! As stated the idea of additional add-ons (daughterboards, memory packs, etc.) perhaps does seem like a reasonable idea. But the mindset of the mainstream console gamer (not necessarily the hardcore gamer) is typically as you point out above; which does suggest that any expansion items would not sell too well. Another couple of important reasons worth mentioning are those of development and fragmentation. Ask any serious console developer why they enjoy working on a given platform and they will say it's because of the challenge. The challenge of working on a FIXED platform and being able to work around system shortcomings. And being a fixed platform, there are many tricks that can be learnt to save a few precious processor cycles or to squeeze a few more FPS out of your latest Triple-A game. Once you start changing the fundamental structure of that system (by adding additional RAM for example) it is no longer a fixed platform as such. The developer then has to develop an additional branch of code that takes advantage of those systems/users who have said expansion module and this takes time, resource and is not necessarily a trivial thing to do. We then start to see things becoming fragmented - user A has a stock console, user B a console with expansion module X, user C with expansion module Y and so on. We are then getting into PC-like development territory where you suddenly have to cater for a plethora of different hardware combinations. Sure, DirectX API and similar do a great job in providing a common interface for a multitude of products in the PC domain but this would not work (in my opinion) for the console domain. I hope that makes sense... it's late. I'll elaborate more sometime if needs be! LOL!

Exactly.

I think where I went wrong with the original expansion slot idea was based on my own views of what's important. Most PC gamers are quite hardcore, rather than casual players who chuck in a hour or two a week. The complete opposite is true of the consolers. That's not to say that the consolers aren't committed to playing through games either on high difficulty or over several dozen hours. But a console is a mere tool to play a game on a screen. A PC itself on the other hand - is just as important to the PC gamer than the results produced on screen.

Take a theoretical example of a 2GB daughterboard expansion for the 360, priced at £50. It promises to allow Forza to display more cars on track and with better circuit detail. It allows 64-player maps on COD too. Without doubt, there would be people (many on here) who would consider that as a worthwhile purchase. But I suspect the VAST majority of consolers would see that as an unnecessary luxury..... "my version of Forza and COD runs fine without it". Now with me being a PC gamer and having PC biased opinions - I simply wouldn't think twice about buying it. Done, dusted - in it goes.

So it will never work on that basis. Then crucially, you mention the 'diverging' standards that the devs would have to accommodate for the same game on the same platform. 20% of our market has the 2GB daughterboard fitted, yet 80% doesn't. Now the devs have to be committed to bringing extra eye-candy to the special one-fifth of owners, but maintain a high enough standard for the majority.

Tricky - very tricky to get right. The ultimate hardware spec decision must take months to finalise.

D.

 

[SharkyUK]

^ I'd typed a lengthy reply to the above but the page timed out and I accidentally lost it. I can't be bothered to do it again; but most of it was irrelevant waffle anyway! LOL!

In short - yes, yes, no, yes and potentially yes. But not necessarily in that order. And I agree. LOL!

 

[Silent_Scone]

As with every spot of news at the moment this should be taken with a pinch of salt, but if theres any truth in it then it's definitely good news

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/Xbox-720-16-Core-CPU-xbox-next-microsoft,news-38266.html

Microsoft has been pretty adamant that it won't be bringing the Xbox 720 to E3 2012 but the gossip and rumors about the console rage on regardless. Today's outlandish rumor comes courtesy of Xbox World, which is reporting that the new Xbox will have a 16-core CPU.

The report says that Durango developer kits were sent out last month and while they don't resemble the finished product as far as appearance is concerned, the guts of these kits is representative of the console that is expected next year. We had already heard that the new Xbox 720, codenamed Durango, would pack something along the lines of AMD's Radeon 7000-series in terms of graphics, and XBW is reporting the same, along with a 16-core IBM Power PC CPU.

 

[SharkyUK]

When I were a lad, a single core processor was all that were needed. Multiple cores were what yer got from eating too many apples.

 

[Silent_Scone]

Could be real, could be fake...who knows

 

[seb]

Mega fake IMO

 

[Munson]

For developer use?

A nicely presented spec sheet, just in case they forget, and need a quick reference whilst writing a game. Lol.

 

[Turvey]

They need to seriously cut the loading times on the next gen consoles. Skyrim is awful; makes me not want to open a door because of it.

^ This, Its like MUST AVOID LOADING SCREENS

 

[Munson]

Memory limitations and crappy HDDs = frequent and long waits. Skyrim running from a Vertex 3 on PC is pretty seamless.

 

[Snakey]

'Full backwards compatability' what, as in PS1... Cool!

 

[realnumber 1]

I've never understood the hype over backwards compatibility.

As soon as you start playing a few of the good next gen games then hardly anyone go back to playing the old ones. Pointless imo.

 

[Munson]

The only time I've ever taken advantage of backwards compatibility was when playing Quantum Redshift on the 360 (original xbox game). Still brilliant.

 

[Goodj]

'Full backwards compatability' what, as in PS1... Cool!

I still put some time on Tony Hawks 2 from time to time, on the PS3.

Laps of Marseille FTW
skate, kickflip, grind, kickflip, manual, kickflip, manual, 540 Judo, tailgrind, kickflip, nosegrind, kickflip, manual, 720 Benihana.
or just kickflip, manual and grind for about a minute after time's run out. cuz baws

 

[Christopher]

LOL. That's definitely genuine.

 

[.Adam.]

I still put some time on Tony Hawks 2 from time to time, on the PS3.

Laps of Marseille FTW
skate, kickflip, grind, kickflip, manual, kickflip, manual, 540 Judo, tailgrind, kickflip, nosegrind, kickflip, manual, 720 Benihana.
or just kickflip, manual and grind for about a minute after time's run out. cuz baws

Tony Hawks 2 > Everything else.

Such a brilliant game. Everytime I hear "Guerilla Radio" I get all nostalgic.

 

[Christopher]

Yup. Got it on my iPhone/iPad.

 

[The Fatty]

Anyone seen this about Xbox 360 being banned?!

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/judge-recommends-xbox-360-ban-in-us/096503

 

[Silent_Scone]

Yes, total faff-about. Nothing will come of it

 

[The Fatty]

but its already been banned for sale in germany? surely thats not a good start?!

 

[Silent_Scone]

Germany is not the States mate. Germany ban practically everything under the sun and are topped only by Australia and their neighbouring bat s**t crazy islanders.

Besides, Obama is a legend. I'd be surprised if he agreed to starve children of the opportunity to learn how to cope in the real world with such simulators as GTA4

 

[richy22]

That's ages old anyway....there is also some patent they have broken too iirc?

 

[Silent_Scone]

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2405922,00.asp

Recently leaked document. No confirmation, but someones gone to a lot of trouble if fake. :dead:.

Although it does look like a fantasy wish list tbh

If legit, the 56-page document titled "XBox 720-9-24 Checkpoint Draft 1" reveals a host of details about the technology being rolled out with the next-gen Xbox and Microsoft's thinking about the competition in not just the rarified console market but also from Apple and Google.

And whoever prepared the presentation thinks Microsoft should price the Xbox 720 at $299 bundled with a second-generation Kinect sensor. The product life cycle of the next-gen game console? Ten years, according to the leaked document. And here's the suggested marketing tagline for the Xbox 720: "All Your Entertainment. One Box."

Microsoft has been very clear that it will not unveil a new Xbox until after 2012, so it's not a shock to learn that yes, 2013 is the target for the Xbox 720. There is something in store for Xbox 360 owners before the year is out, however—the document indicates that Microsoft plans to release XTV service and apps for the 360 in time for the holidays.

What's also interesting is the look-in we get on the software giant's internal discussion about rollout timing and the life expectancy of its current console on the market.

In a slide asking, "Why do we need a next gen Xbox in 2013?" Microsoft posits that its Xbox 360 business will decline beginning next year, while Gen 8 gaming platforms from rivals Sony and Nintendo raise the bar and "new threats from Apple (AppleTV) and Google (Google TV)" emerge to challenge the leading game console maker.

The document also points to "Xbox 360 Limitations," which according to Microsoft include:

- No full fidelity AAA Games + Kinect V1 sensor

- Will not support full range of XTV platform scenarios (e.g. 1080p video + Video Chat +HTML5 Apps)

- Lacking modern entertainment capabilities (e.g. Blu-ray, Native 3D output, 2x1080p in/out)

- Can't run "always on"/low power states

- Can't run multiplexed or concurrent applications and service

Microsoft plans to remedy most or all of those deficiencies with the Xbox 720, however.

The Future is Fortaleza?

Intriguingly, the document also contains an Xbox 720 roadmap that is called "The Road to Fortaleza" (see slide below, click to enlarge). Apparently a code name, Fortaleza appears to be an augmented reality project that features Wi-Fi-enabled "Fortaleza Glasses" that are being planned for an Xbox 720 tie-in in the 2014 timeframe.

The following year, Fortaleza gets a whole lot more ambitious. The glasses will get cell radio and 4G network connectivity and it pretty much looks like Microsoft is planning to turn them into little mini-consoles that serve as mobile hubs for Xbox content. In other words, you won't even need the Xbox 720 console to access Xbox games and media, which will be delivered from the cloud "instantly and on any screen," as the copy reads.

And a vague diagram of the architecture

 

[Sym0n]

Interesting. If someone has gone to that amount of effort, 56 pages FFS, then they really need to get laid.

 

[Silent_Scone]

http://vr-zone.com/articles/microsoft-issues-takedown-notice-for-leaked-xbox-720-document/16370.html

 

[Snakey]

In all honesty I'm enjoying the product thats out their at the moment, until Microsoft, Playstation or Nintendo make an announcement themselves I couldn't really care for the 'apparent' specifics of the next console.

 

[Munson]

Strikes me as a bit of PR spin TBH. If they wanted people to believe it's fake, they wouldn't have reacted. They're not stupid. Lol at "unwittingly". Yeah alright then.

 

[MDP91]

Think its a craft PR stunt, "lets 'leak' some content to keep people on a false scent for a while" they're not stupid!

 

[Silent_Scone]

http://vr-zone.com/articles/microsoft-may-get-cable-companies-to-subsidise-99-xbox-720/16406.html

Pachter claims that we could see the Xbox 720 selling for as little as $99, vastly cheaper than existing consoles and the expected low price of the Wii U, simply by locking customers into a two year subscription TV contract.

This might sound a little far-fetched at first, but there is already a precedent for this in the $99 Xbox 360 when gamers sign a two-year Xbox LIVE contract. This model has also worked extremely well in the smartphone and tablet markets, where expensive devices can be sold for little or nothing, providing consumers commit to a regular bill.

 

[AK]

Hmm.

 

[Christopher]

That'll never happen as the only option. Possible US option but won't be worldwide, they'd be shooting themselves in the foot.

 

[AK]

TBF. Depending on price and it'll obviously include XBL. We'll see.

 

[Silent_Scone]

Absoloutely nothing is gospel ATM. Sounds like an overpowered 4G enabled TV coffee table right now.

 

[Jamie16v]

I don't see the advantage of always being on?

 

[AK]

Download DLC/updates remotely is the biggest gain I can see.

If they're going to offer more/competitive digital downloads then always on will help with the downloads, given the size.

 

[172lover]

Supposedly 720 specs from a devkit.....

"the devkit contains a 8 Core Intel CPU, a Nvidia GPU and 8 to 12GB of RAM..."

http://www.maxconsole.com/cgi-bin/m...nction=detail&id=RKLS00000012395&cat=XBOX 360