Performance upgrade advice, no 832,918

[Scudetto]

lo,

First, for me, puppy is plenty fast enough, so not into chipping it etc (yet...). I dont want it to go any faster, but I would like to sharpen up some other things and I wondered what you thought about these performance upgrades:

1) A clutch that works. When accelerating hard and changing quickly, the clutch feels like it slips and slurs for a few milliseconds - it doesnt feel decisive. Im prepared to live with a heavier clutch in exchange for a better engagement. Any ideas? Twin plate racing jobby?

2) Brakes. Id like them to have more bite. They feel a bit soft intially, then theyre very good. This isnt as important as the clutch though, but would bigger discs/drilled etc and pads help me out here?

3) Ride. I know the argument that Reno has optimised the car for the best handling/ride combo, but I think an improvement can be made. IMHO theres no point lowering it as it corners flat enough - my beef is with its body control on undulating roads; I think the shocks could do a better job of reigning the body in. I apologise for again making reference to my former Golf, but the Reno isnt as composed on undulating roads as the Golf. So, I was wondering, what about changing the shocks, but not the springs? Gas filled or something? Any thoughts? How heavy are the wheels? If they are hevay then maybe unsprung mass could be a factor and lighter alloys may play a (small) role here??

4) The steering wheel is too big, and it exacerbates the tardy turn in. Does Momo/anyone make a replacement unit thats smaller in size, yet still retains the Airbag (I dont want to lose a safety system).

5) Finally - is there anything (bar tyre changes) I can do to reduce the wretched torque steer even by a little?

Sorry if these are real dunce-like questions, Im not technical, but curious about how to make my sweet car a little more to my liking. Oh, and would £1k cover all of this?

Muchos gracias amigos,

g

 

[Captain Slarty]

First, for me, puppy is plenty fast enough, so not into chipping it etc (yet...). I dont want it to go any faster, but I would like to sharpen up some other things and I wondered what you thought about these performance upgrades:

1) A clutch that works. When accelerating hard and changing quickly, the clutch feels like it slips and slurs for a few milliseconds - it doesnt feel decisive. Im prepared to live with a heavier clutch in exchange for a better engagement. Any ideas? Twin plate racing jobby?

----I have no prbs with the std clutch at all.. might be worth getting it checked. ??

2) Brakes. Id like them to have more bite. They feel a bit soft intially, then theyre very good. This isnt as important as the clutch though, but would bigger discs/drilled etc and pads help me out here?

--- drilling makes no difference at all to initital feel. The brakes seem well balanced as std. Changing pads may help, but it may make initial feel worse if that is what concerns you.

3) Ride. I know the argument that Reno has optimised the car for the best handling/ride combo, but I think an improvement can be made. IMHO theres no point lowering it as it corners flat enough - my beef is with its body control on undulating roads; I think the shocks could do a better job of reigning the body in. I apologise for again making reference to my former Golf, but the Reno isnt as composed on undulating roads as the Golf. So, I was wondering, what about changing the shocks, but not the springs? Gas filled or something? Any thoughts? How heavy are the wheels? If they are hevay then maybe unsprung mass could be a factor and lighter alloys may play a (small) role here??

-- it needs the added caster me thinks. that would mean modified bottom arms. I would imagine the shocks are gas units as std.

4) The steering wheel is too big, and it exacerbates the tardy turn in. Does Momo/anyone make a replacement unit thats smaller in size, yet still retains the Airbag (I dont want to lose a safety system).

-- needs caster and a touch of neg camber.

5) Finally - is there anything (bar tyre changes) I can do to reduce the wretched torque steer even by a little?

--- what torque steer ??. there is minimal torque steer on the 172 ?.. please describe what you refer to ?

Sorry if these are real dunce-like questions, Im not technical, but curious about how to make my sweet car a little more to my liking. Oh, and would £1k cover all of this?

Muchos gracias amigos,

g

---- best to get it on a supervised track day to allow you to explore the limits, that way you get to drive the car the way it was designed, I would caution trying to change things too much until you have explored the limits.

Joe..

 

[Scudetto]

thx Joe.

The torque steer - steering wheel yanks and twitches when accelerating quickly on anything but a perfectly smooth road. Overtaking has to be done even more carefully than normal. My sisters fiance had a MK1 172 and his did the same.

The caster and the camber changes - should only reno do this, or any qualified technician? Also, what settings do you suggest?

I take your point re a track day - Im all for track days that teach you how to control skids etc, but not sure I see the benefit in learning about my own car at 100% of it abilities (although Im sure it would be fun!) because, to be honest, I really dont drive it that hard anyway (which is why I dont want it to go much faster).

Thanks again,

g

 

[JJ172]

1) A clutch that works. When accelerating hard and changing quickly, the clutch feels like it slips and slurs for a few milliseconds - it doesnt feel decisive. Im prepared to live with a heavier clutch in exchange for a better engagement. Any ideas? Twin plate racing jobby?

>>>
Ive had the same problem with the clutch on a few occassions, mainly on the track, but also when driving it hard on the road.


2) Brakes. Id like them to have more bite. They feel a bit soft intially, then theyre very good. This isnt as important as the clutch though, but would bigger discs/drilled etc and pads help me out here?

>>>
Ive not had any problems with the brakes, and again, on the track theyre bleedin marvellous. For a std setup they are superb. Id be hesitant about changing them for road use.


3) Ride. I know the argument that Reno has optimised the car for the best handling/ride combo, but I think an improvement can be made. IMHO theres no point lowering it as it corners flat enough - my beef is with its body control on undulating roads; I think the shocks could do a better job of reigning the body in. I apologise for again making reference to my former Golf, but the Reno isnt as composed on undulating roads as the Golf. So, I was wondering, what about changing the shocks, but not the springs? Gas filled or something? Any thoughts? How heavy are the wheels? If they are hevay then maybe unsprung mass could be a factor and lighter alloys may play a (small) role here??

>>>
I agree with the problem about a choppy ride on undulating surfaces. On the track the ride/handling is amazing (for a std car). Maybe dampers would resolve it, but it sounds like a more fundamental suspension setup tradeoff - handling vs. comfort. I wonder how the Clio Cup fares?


4) The steering wheel is too big, and it exacerbates the tardy turn in. Does Momo/anyone make a replacement unit thats smaller in size, yet still retains the Airbag (I dont want to lose a safety system).

>>>
Again, I cant really fault the turn-in, but Captains suggestions would definitely help. Ditto the mods on the Clio Cup.


5) Finally - is there anything (bar tyre changes) I can do to reduce the wretched torque steer even by a little?

>>>
What torque steer? I cant say Ive ever noticed it in mine (Mk2 2002 172) either on the road or on the track.

 

[Captain Slarty]

Hi Scudetto m8.

Cant say I have any probs with torque steer at all on the 172.

Might be worth checking the tracking and tyre pressures.

The suspesion mods will improve turn, response and feel, I am woring on a set of exchange modifyed bottom suspension arms at the mo, will let u know.

Joe.

 

[ak_uk]

Just replaced my front discs with Tar Ox grooved complete with their partner pads.


Subjectively they are now noticeably sharper with the ABS seeming to kick in earlier but the pedal pulsing seems to be quicker....does this make sense?


Need more time to try them out tho

 

[Scudetto]

gentlemen, thank you kindly for your replies. It seems Im alone in the torque steer moan department, so tomorrow am I will start with the basics and check the tyre pressures.

Joe, pls do let me know how you get on with your suspension mods.

Best wishes,

g

 

[ChavyBoy]

Scudetto,

Maybe you are thinking of Tram-Lining and get this under heavy accelartion and braking as well. The car wants to find every groove in the road.

 

[petes]

Clutch - I have exactly the same problem (you have probably seen me moaning about it in various posts). Im having it checked out for the second time on Wednesday.

In my opinion gas shocks wouldnt improve the ride because they effectively increase the spring rate - youd probably get a choppier ride.

Never had a problem with turn-in on the road. Caster/camber changes would probably make the thing more likely to tramline. Ive never noticed excessive torque-steer but caster/camber changes would probably exaggerate it.

 

[BenR]

yup, no torque steer on mine...not a proba t all.

my MK1 XR2 with unequal driveshafts area read handful...in fact....2 hand needed!!

 

[geoff_clio182]

ak_uk - What pads you got on there Arjun?

 

[ak_uk]

Erm...dunno - NH supplied them...probably Tar Ox - he said they work better from cold than out and out race pads.....

Said something about grannies not always stepping off the kerb when your brakes are warm....?


Arjun

 

[VR6man]

ah.... found this post again.....

scudetto... i too get what i would always describe as torque steer...

in my previous car, a Golf VR6, it was quite noticeable.... booting it in 2nd and a bit of third, you could feel the front wheels loosing and gaining grip on the road surface.....

I had the tracking checked very regularly on the VR6 and I always seemed to have new tyres on it as the tyre people always managed to sell me some

anyhow.. yes.. on the VR6 and Im pretty damm sure it wasnt something mechanical

on the clio, yes... i think there is a bit as well....

my front tyres are good and the tracking was done before i bought the car.... once again, hard acceleration in 1st, 2nd and once again third, i can feel a the wheels beginning to do what they did in the golf... alternately loose a bit of grip, gain a bit and in the process, pull the wheel slightly.... not in a dangerous or uncontrollable way... but it is there..

I also drove someone elses VR6 and giving it some welly, exactly the same results... torque steer seemed worse in the vr6 than in the clio....

my tuppence worth

 

[Captain Slarty]

Hi M8, nope, that isnt torque steer.. thats simply alternating loss of traction. !

torque steer is where the rotation force favours one side of the drive train.. ie, under hard accel it will pull left or right, but always the same... the problem is usually related to drive train layout. Drive shaft length can help tremendously. ie - equal length, or supported bearings.

Hope that clears that up..

Joe

 

[VR6man]

oh right

well in that case i have that then... not torque steer although what i described has the effect of pulling the car from one side to the other albeit not violently.....

fair enough