Ph2 172, idles badly + stalls BUT rev's out fine

[Timmyevo6]

since changing the timing belts my 172 has start to idle a bit odd, it often stalls because the revs drop so low. however, it revs fine and runs perfect throughout the rev range. when we did the belts, i removed the throttle body and gave it a clean out with some carb spray cleaner.

i had it put onto a dianostic thingy by a friend and he cleared a few fault codes, nothing related to issue though. BUT he did say his first thoughts would be to look at the throttle postion sensor?

there is also what sounds like a minor air leak, but i'm not sure as i wouldn't know how/where a vacum is on a clio.

anyone had something along the same lines?

 

[lemonnobby]

ummm did you have the inlet manifold off and there is a seal on the thottle body did you put it on is it in place try with crab cleaner puting some arould the thorrle body area and the inlet where it joins the lower inlet. sometimes the 10mm bolts lift the inlet off the lower inlet

 

[Timmyevo6]

yep, removed the inlet manifold. i know the piece you're on about, tricky little sod. i'll wip it off again and doule check it all. will also clean it up with carb cleaner.

cheers.

 

[hughesclio]

i had a problem like this on a phase2 172 and could find anything wrong, diagnostics would not bring anything up, eventually i decided to check the cam timing and bugger me if it was out. adjusted the cams to where they should be, idled perfect . also there were tipex marks all over the place non of which lined up once timed up correctly. clearly the belt had been changed by someone who didnt know what they were doing. i would seriously check it as without the right locking tools its easy to get it wrong you say it only started after belts were done, very similar to mine.i dont know about yours but mine apeared to drive fine but idled lumpy and would cut out from time to time. once it was done it did drive much better suprisingly

 

[Timmyevo6]

when we changed the belts, i used a locking tool on the cam gears, and the locking tool on the crank.

we did have issues with getting it timed up correctly. got it all lined up, spun it over a few times, re-lined it up and all was lined up correctly.

i must admit i've little experience of renault 16v engines, but on a previous evo, the timing was 1 tooth out on 1 of the cams, it ran badly throughout the range.

BUT, as you say, yours was incorrectly timed but ran fine. seems odd that it ran fine for 24hours before starting to play up.....

the plot thickens!

 

[hughesclio]

did you loosen the crank pulley? as i have known them to slip. apparentely they are a stretch bolt im sure someone will confirm this or correct me. the one that i knew of slipped enough to bend valves and we torqued it up as it should been as well, it did it twice then changed the crank pulley bolt and never did it again, maybe yours might of slipped just a little.i might be way off the mark but for what it takes to check that would be my first port of call mate.

 

[Timmyevo6]

well, all we did was remove the aux bottom pulley, 18mm head, undid it by putting the crank pin in to lock the crank. didn't touch the actual crack pulley that the timing belt goes around.

or does the bottom aux pulley tighten the bottom crank?

 

[hughesclio]

yeah it does mate, once you loosen that bolt the whole bottom pulleys are floating

 

[Timmyevo6]

right, then that makes sense that it could of slipped! ***** BAGS!! best get it all double checked then!

better safe than sorry as you say.

cheers.

 

[hughesclio]

no worries mate let me know how you get on, just out of interest did you lock the cams on the belt side or on the gearbox side through the blanking plugs?

 

[Timmyevo6]

whats the best/most stright forward way to check timing?

 

[Timmyevo6]

no worries mate let me know how you get on, just out of interest did you lock the cams on the belt side or on the gearbox side through the blanking plugs?

locked cams on plug side. made a 4mm thick piece of plate with a bit of angle iron welded it it, screwed that into the engine lift point to hold it in place.

 

[hughesclio]

i personally would get to tdc then lock the crank off then pop the access plugs off then look to see if cams are out and try to refit the locking tool, if it does not go in then there out.doesnt take long to check but a fair bit longer to adjust.

 

[Timmyevo6]

tidy!!

 

[Christophe]

get the ecu reset. worked for me when i had similar problems

 

[hughesclio]

get the ecu reset. worked for me when i had similar problems

reading fail , hes already had the fault codes cleared

 

[Christophe]

haha oops

however mine had no faults when they stuck on the diagnostics but they rest the ecu back to when it came out of manufactures and it worked.

 

[Timmyevo6]

haha oops

however mine had no faults when they stuck on the diagnostics but they rest the ecu back to when it came out of manufactures and it worked.

interesting. it's been in the workshop most of today having stuff done to it but i'm yet to be updated as to the progress!

cheers for all comments though guys!

 

[Timmyevo6]

well it would seem the timing was out! previously when we did it, we marked and counted 15 teeth on the belt between 2 marks we put on the cams, checked yesterday at TDC and there were only 13! all adjusted and this time the bottom pulley was thightened like buggery then timing rotated and checked again, all aligned ok.

cheers for all info guys!!

on a comical note, found a 6 disc mulitchanger under pasenger seat that i didn't know i had. only had the car 9 months! mind you, i've only driven it 7 times.

 

[hughesclio]

glad its sorted matey, like i said before its a pig to time without the correct tools and often gets over looked when fault finding. lol at the cd changer

 

[Timmyevo6]

well, it 'sorted' bit didn't last long. after re-timing it up, putting it back together again for the 5th time, it would not start. so, checked the timing again, it was out. so, removed everything, the dephaser pulley nut was slightly loose. tightened it all back up again. odd thing is, it is like the 2 cams are just pulling slightly on there respected valves, as slight tension is needed to get them level so as the tool that locks them in place locates. once the belt is on and the belt is under tension, they line up ok. the pin to lock in TDC fits neatly in place also to make sure it is locked at TDC.



just in process of putting it back together to try again.

what are the symptons of a shot dephaser pulley?

 

[hughesclio]

well, it 'sorted' bit didn't last long. after re-timing it up, putting it back together again for the 5th time, it would not start. so, checked the timing again, it was out. so, removed everything, the dephaser pulley nut was slightly loose. tightened it all back up again. odd thing is, it is like the 2 cams are just pulling slightly on there respected valves, as slight tension is needed to get them level so as the tool that locks them in place locates. once the belt is on and the belt is under tension, they line up ok. the pin to lock in TDC fits neatly in place also to make sure it is locked at TDC.



just in process of putting it back together to try again.

what are the symptons of a shot dephaser pulley?

i might be wrong but im pretty certain they sound like there knocking then when you rev the engine it tends to disapear, just hope it hasnt slipped to much to bend any valves
fingers crossed

 

[bmh.01]

A shot dephaser tends to knock when its not in an advanced state as said.

Does the crank pin get a good hold on the crank as its easy enough done to put the crank pin in a balancing hole rather than the locking slot. Which way are the slots in the cams offset when you're locking it? They should be towards the bottom.

 

[Timmyevo6]

locking pin sits in sweet as a nut, crank will not rotate at all in either direction.

got the cams lined up by eye this afternoon, when the belt was tensioned, car started first time and ran sweet. so fingers crossed its all sorted!

bmh.01, what do you mean when you say Which way are the slots in the cams offset when you're locking it? They should be towards the bottom. ??

 

[Timmyevo6]

ok, just done a test drive. all is sweet.

the new high carbon brembo discs and RC6 carbon lorraine pads are a nice combo!

 

[hughesclio]

ok, just done a test drive. all is sweet.

the new high carbon brembo discs and RC6 carbon lorraine pads are a nice combo!

carbon lorraine pads are insane but will cover your wheels/car in metal fillings. unless you clean them off straight away will rust and cause you problems
glad you got timing sorted..... again

 

[Timmyevo6]

carbon lorraine pads are insane but will cover your wheels/car in metal fillings. unless you clean them off straight away will rust and cause you problems
glad you got timing sorted..... again

i'll bear that in mind about the lorraines! didn't know they were that bad. never had a issue on the evo's, mind you, that gets washed! unlike the clio!

 

[bmh.01]

bmh.01, what do you mean when you say Which way are the slots in the cams offset when you're locking it? They should be towards the bottom. ??

The locking slots in the end of the cams aren't central they're slightly offset to the bottom in the correct position the proper renault tool won't go in the other way round and line up. Just wondered if you'd managed to lock it the wrong way round and pin it in a balancing hole so the crank could've jumped thats all.

 

[hughesclio]

yeah they are terrible, if i left my hybrid after a trackday and it rained a few weeks later it changed colour to gold, i had to flat and polish it to get most of it off, used to go through discs quicker than pads to lol, mind you the 172 discs are mint after 2 trackdays so hopefully they will outlast the pads this time