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PistonHeads Top 10 The Results - we did good :)



David Stuart

ClioSport Club Member
I'm a bit confused. Seen a lot of it on PH and on here. I don't understand why the M140i isn't a hot hatch? It has a hatch, it's got five seats, it's in the C-segment, it's fairly quick and handles reasonably well, has sporting intentions. Why is it not a hot hatch? And if it isn't, what is it?

It can't be because it's a six-pot, because there have been six-cylinder hot hatches before (147 GTA and Golf R32), or that it's RWD, because there have been RWD hot hatches before.

#confused.

It’s a hot hatch. Just feels different from a clio / fiesta obviously.

Like I said earlier. There are probably two categories of hot hatch these days. There probably always was to be fair.

Split them in size / power. Or on price. Gets you into a much more logical list of what’s good in each category.



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  RB 182 FF
It’s a hot hatch. Just feels different from a clio / fiesta obviously.

Like I said earlier. There are probably two categories of hot hatch these days. There probably always was to be fair.

Split them in size / power. Or on price. Gets you into a much more logical list of what’s good in each category.



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It’s a hot hatch. Just feels different from a clio / fiesta obviously.

Like I said earlier. There are probably two categories of hot hatch these days. There probably always was to be fair.

Split them in size / power. Or on price. Gets you into a much more logical list of what’s good in each category.



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Good point... (y)
 

MarkCup

ClioSport Club Member
I'm a bit confused. Seen a lot of it on PH and on here. I don't understand why the M140i isn't a hot hatch? It has a hatch, it's got five seats, it's in the C-segment, it's fairly quick and handles reasonably well, has sporting intentions. Why is it not a hot hatch? And if it isn't, what is it?

It can't be because it's a six-pot, because there have been six-cylinder hot hatches before (147 GTA and Golf R32), or that it's RWD, because there have been RWD hot hatches before.

#confused.

To me a hot-hatch is something that has at least a little engineering prowess within, specifically to make it an engaging drive.

All of the others on that list have something a little bit special about them chassis wise I think, don't they? Certainly something different from the standard cooking model...even if it's as simple as spring/damper/anti-roll-bar rates?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the M140i is just an M-sport 114d that happens to have a very big engine.

Driving my Fiesta ST I knew it wasn't a Zetec with a punchy engine, it felt like I was connected, like it was designed to entertain.

My BMW never feels like that, at all. It just feels like a powerful fast one series...and to me that is not a hot-hatch.

As said above, technically, it is, spiritually though? Nope nope nope nope nope.
 

massiveCoRbyn

ClioSport Club Member
  Several
It’s a hot hatch. Just feels different from a clio / fiesta obviously.

Like I said earlier. There are probably two categories of hot hatch these days. There probably always was to be fair.

Split them in size / power. Or on price. Gets you into a much more logical list of what’s good in each category.



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I think the lines have been blurred a bit in the last few years with the advent of the 'hyper hatch', which has introduced 4WD and outputs that are, in some cases, well north of 300bhp. We've now ended up with three categories; warm hatches (Suzuki Swift Sport, Fiesta Zetec-S etc), then hot hatches (Fiesta ST, Golf GTI, Megane/Clio RS) and then the hyper hatches (Golf R, AMG A45 etc).

They're probably all just hot hatches in reality, but we do love to categorise stuff :ROFLMAO:

To me a hot-hatch is something that has at least a little engineering prowess within, specifically to make it an engaging drive.

All of the others on that list have something a little bit special about them chassis wise I think, don't they? Certainly something different from the standard cooking model...even if it's as simple as spring/damper/anti-roll-bar rates?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the M140i is just an M-sport 114d that happens to have a very big engine.

Driving my Fiesta ST I knew it wasn't a Zetec with a punchy engine, it felt like I was connected, like it was designed to entertain.

My BMW never feels like that, at all. It just feels like a powerful fast one series...and to me that is not a hot-hatch.

As said above, technically, it is, spiritually though? Nope nope nope nope nope.

I get what you're saying, but I think there are probably a few accepted hot hatches that fall outside of your definition.

You could argue that the R26.R isn't really a hot hatch, as it's only a two-seater. I guess the BMW is just a bit odd as it's configuration is unique in the segment.

They all count I reckon.
 

massiveCoRbyn

ClioSport Club Member
  Several
I (and many others) always went with, front engined, front wheel drive for a hot hatch. I don't get it now! :confused:

It's a bit of a weird one, as I think you could argue that cars like the Talbot Sunbeam Ti/Lotus and Vauxhall Chevette HS/HSR are hot hatches, but they pre-date the Golf GTI, which people claim started the genre.
 

David Stuart

ClioSport Club Member
It's a bit of a weird one, as I think you could argue that cars like the Talbot Sunbeam Ti/Lotus and Vauxhall Chevette HS/HSR are hot hatches, but they pre-date the Golf GTI, which people claim started the genre.

Does it have to have a hatch?

The Mini Cooper started it all really. Small family car winning races and rallies at the weekend.


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R3k1355

Absolute wetter.
ClioSport Club Member
in the last few years with the advent of the 'hyper hatch', which has introduced 4WD

Introduced 4WD ???

Nissan_Pulsar_GTIR.jpg

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134984015de07e37c30e78c99f54573c.jpg
 
  Swift Sport
To me a hot-hatch is something that has at least a little engineering prowess within, specifically to make it an engaging drive.

All of the others on that list have something a little bit special about them chassis wise I think, don't they? Certainly something different from the standard cooking model...even if it's as simple as spring/damper/anti-roll-bar rates?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the M140i is just an M-sport 114d that happens to have a very big engine.

Driving my Fiesta ST I knew it wasn't a Zetec with a punchy engine, it felt like I was connected, like it was designed to entertain.

My BMW never feels like that, at all. It just feels like a powerful fast one series...and to me that is not a hot-hatch.

As said above, technically, it is, spiritually though? Nope nope nope nope nope.
Couldn't agree more.
 

Clio_fool

ClioSport Club Member
I guess if it wasn't a public vote there would be more newer cars in the list and not so many French s**t boxes. I'd have expected to see the golf 7R and i30N feature as they get nothing but good press reviews. Pistonheads forum is full of oddities though.
 

Gus

ClioSport Moderator
  182Turbo,DCi90
The way I understood it is that it was hot hatches released in the last 19 years - '21 century' which is why stuff like the Williams and Integrale and even the nissan pulsar arent there.
 
  RB 182 FF
That's correct.

Mmmmmmm Integrale🤤

My friend has an impeccable Integrale Evo 2, it's absolute car p**n.... He imported it from Milan and it was Pink donkeys years ago, its now world class, god knows what it's worth if he ever decided to sell it.... 🤑
 

Clio_fool

ClioSport Club Member
My friend has an impeccable Integrale Evo 2, it's absolute car p**n.... He imported it from Milan and it was Pink donkeys years ago, its now world class, god knows what it's worth if he ever decided to sell it.... 🤑
Give over. I've just been browsing and I still can't afford one😩. Found a GMC Typhoon for £15k though 🤔😂.
 
  RB 182 FF
Give over. I've just been browsing and I still can't afford one😩. Found a GMC Typhoon for £15k though 🤔😂.

I've just messaged a mate to see if he has pics of it, it's truly special and rarely comes out of its carcoon... but on hot summer days the owner gives it hell which is what it's all about, my god does the thing handle, talk about on rails... A few years back he made poo come out of my bum, and I don't scare too easily... 😬💩
 

Clio_fool

ClioSport Club Member
I've just messaged a mate to see if he has pics of it, it's truly special and rarely comes out of its carcoon... but on hot summer days the owner gives it hell which is what it's all about, my god does the thing handle, talk about on rails... A few years back he made poo come out of my bum, and I don't scare too easily... 😬💩
Yeah they can handle a corner pretty well, even with a surprising amount of body roll they won't let go of the road. I was shocked the first time I went out in one.
 
  RB 182 FF
Yeah they can handle a corner pretty well, even with a surprising amount of body roll they won't let go of the road. I was shocked the first time I went out in one.

He's had his completely fettled and he sourced rare rally parts from Italy that were found in a warehouse... It has rally cross braces underneath, a few other technical extras I can't recall exactly what they were, featherlight carbon discs that bolt to the outside of the alloys for brake cooling, and fully seem welded. I don't recall any body roll in his, but I was probably too terrified to know what was happening... 🙈
 
  RB 182 FF
Nice, EVO 1 like mine qss. I nearly bought an EVO 2interuor the same as that too but bought cam's and some oz spilt rims instead!

I haven't seen the owner of this for a while as I've moved away 40 odd miles, but last time we spoke this was running over 300bhp, could have been 310/320 possibly... It sure goes well anyway...!
 

Clio_fool

ClioSport Club Member
I haven't seen the owner of this for a while as I've moved away 40 odd miles, but last time we spoke this was running over 300bhp, could have been 310/320 possibly... It sure goes well anyway...!
Yeah mine was quick with 236 at the wheels and smooth as butter torque. If I could have one thing back from my past 😂.
 

MarcB

ClioSport Club Member
  Too Many
HOT HATCH = Must have 3 doors IMHO

The vote should have been anything from 1990 onwards and then alot of other cars would have had a choice, The following for 106s, Saxos, 205s, RS Turbos (Esco & Fiesta) among other things is crazy.

Either way I have the 197 F1 in LY and even tho it never came on the list the 200 cup did and the 197 has all the Cup suspension and the Trophy came first so im happy about that. (prices will now shoot to £19k for a 100k track Trophy 😂 )

As for the dampers on the trophy they are an amazing bit of engineering, I believe they where used as on the Seat Leon touring cars and then also used on the Twingo R1 rally cars.
Renault clearly knew what they where doing when fitting these and I would personally say they would beat any aftermarket coil over kit, Serious money spent on them in testing / Producing and hours of testing and we all know that renault know what they are doing when it comes to suspension and handling, If people think a Cup packed 1*2 is a B road weapon drive a box fresh OE trophy and you will know why the suspension is hyped up.
 
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Martin_172

ClioSport Club Member
good to see so many RS cars on the list.

Loved my 182 Trophy but tbh trick dampers or no trick dampers my 220 Trophy would have decimated it over any typical british B road, I suppose that's just progress though!
 

David Stuart

ClioSport Club Member
good to see so many RS cars on the list.

Loved my 182 Trophy but tbh trick dampers or no trick dampers my 220 Trophy would have decimated it over any typical british B road, I suppose that's just progress though!

To be fair most of the cars on that list would decimate a trophy over a B road. 172 cup excluded. But the 1*2s would both be great fun while doing it.


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