PistonHeads Top 10 The Results - we did good :)

[Mr Burns]

To me a hot-hatch is a working-class car, meaning it's cheap enough for pretty much anyone young or old. The car that can keep up with your dad's BMW...

 

[David Stuart]

I'm a bit confused. Seen a lot of it on PH and on here. I don't understand why the M140i isn't a hot hatch? It has a hatch, it's got five seats, it's in the C-segment, it's fairly quick and handles reasonably well, has sporting intentions. Why is it not a hot hatch? And if it isn't, what is it?

It can't be because it's a six-pot, because there have been six-cylinder hot hatches before (147 GTA and Golf R32), or that it's RWD, because there have been RWD hot hatches before.

#confused.

It’s a hot hatch. Just feels different from a clio / fiesta obviously.

Like I said earlier. There are probably two categories of hot hatch these days. There probably always was to be fair.

Split them in size / power. Or on price. Gets you into a much more logical list of what’s good in each category.



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[VR46-G@Z]

It’s a hot hatch. Just feels different from a clio / fiesta obviously.

Like I said earlier. There are probably two categories of hot hatch these days. There probably always was to be fair.

Split them in size / power. Or on price. Gets you into a much more logical list of what’s good in each category.



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It’s a hot hatch. Just feels different from a clio / fiesta obviously.

Like I said earlier. There are probably two categories of hot hatch these days. There probably always was to be fair.

Split them in size / power. Or on price. Gets you into a much more logical list of what’s good in each category.



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Good point...

 

[MarkCup]

I'm a bit confused. Seen a lot of it on PH and on here. I don't understand why the M140i isn't a hot hatch? It has a hatch, it's got five seats, it's in the C-segment, it's fairly quick and handles reasonably well, has sporting intentions. Why is it not a hot hatch? And if it isn't, what is it?

It can't be because it's a six-pot, because there have been six-cylinder hot hatches before (147 GTA and Golf R32), or that it's RWD, because there have been RWD hot hatches before.

#confused.

To me a hot-hatch is something that has at least a little engineering prowess within, specifically to make it an engaging drive.

All of the others on that list have something a little bit special about them chassis wise I think, don't they? Certainly something different from the standard cooking model...even if it's as simple as spring/damper/anti-roll-bar rates?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the M140i is just an M-sport 114d that happens to have a very big engine.

Driving my Fiesta ST I knew it wasn't a Zetec with a punchy engine, it felt like I was connected, like it was designed to entertain.

My BMW never feels like that, at all. It just feels like a powerful fast one series...and to me that is not a hot-hatch.

As said above, technically, it is, spiritually though? Nope nope nope nope nope.

 

[cat171]

I (and many others) always went with, front engined, front wheel drive for a hot hatch. I don't get it now!

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

It’s a hot hatch. Just feels different from a clio / fiesta obviously.

Like I said earlier. There are probably two categories of hot hatch these days. There probably always was to be fair.

Split them in size / power. Or on price. Gets you into a much more logical list of what’s good in each category.



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I think the lines have been blurred a bit in the last few years with the advent of the 'hyper hatch', which has introduced 4WD and outputs that are, in some cases, well north of 300bhp. We've now ended up with three categories; warm hatches (Suzuki Swift Sport, Fiesta Zetec-S etc), then hot hatches (Fiesta ST, Golf GTI, Megane/Clio RS) and then the hyper hatches (Golf R, AMG A45 etc).

They're probably all just hot hatches in reality, but we do love to categorise stuff

To me a hot-hatch is something that has at least a little engineering prowess within, specifically to make it an engaging drive.

All of the others on that list have something a little bit special about them chassis wise I think, don't they? Certainly something different from the standard cooking model...even if it's as simple as spring/damper/anti-roll-bar rates?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the M140i is just an M-sport 114d that happens to have a very big engine.

Driving my Fiesta ST I knew it wasn't a Zetec with a punchy engine, it felt like I was connected, like it was designed to entertain.

My BMW never feels like that, at all. It just feels like a powerful fast one series...and to me that is not a hot-hatch.

As said above, technically, it is, spiritually though? Nope nope nope nope nope.

I get what you're saying, but I think there are probably a few accepted hot hatches that fall outside of your definition.

You could argue that the R26.R isn't really a hot hatch, as it's only a two-seater. I guess the BMW is just a bit odd as it's configuration is unique in the segment.

They all count I reckon.

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

I (and many others) always went with, front engined, front wheel drive for a hot hatch. I don't get it now!

It's a bit of a weird one, as I think you could argue that cars like the Talbot Sunbeam Ti/Lotus and Vauxhall Chevette HS/HSR are hot hatches, but they pre-date the Golf GTI, which people claim started the genre.

 

[David Stuart]

It's a bit of a weird one, as I think you could argue that cars like the Talbot Sunbeam Ti/Lotus and Vauxhall Chevette HS/HSR are hot hatches, but they pre-date the Golf GTI, which people claim started the genre.

Does it have to have a hatch?

The Mini Cooper started it all really. Small family car winning races and rallies at the weekend.


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[massiveCoRbyn]

Does it have to have a hatch?

The Mini Cooper started it all really. Small family car winning races and rallies at the weekend.


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To be a hot hatch, it probably does at least have to have a hatch 😂

 

[R3k1355]

in the last few years with the advent of the 'hyper hatch', which has introduced 4WD

Introduced 4WD ???

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

Introduced 4WD ???

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Fair point.

I think most yoofs from Bradford that drive Golf Rs and A45s would struggle to know what those cars are though 😂 Perhaps I should have said "reintroduced". Weirdly though, the cars above probably aren't really known as hot hatches, but just as homologation specials.

 

[Mr Burns]

To me a hot-hatch is something that has at least a little engineering prowess within, specifically to make it an engaging drive.

All of the others on that list have something a little bit special about them chassis wise I think, don't they? Certainly something different from the standard cooking model...even if it's as simple as spring/damper/anti-roll-bar rates?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the M140i is just an M-sport 114d that happens to have a very big engine.

Driving my Fiesta ST I knew it wasn't a Zetec with a punchy engine, it felt like I was connected, like it was designed to entertain.

My BMW never feels like that, at all. It just feels like a powerful fast one series...and to me that is not a hot-hatch.

As said above, technically, it is, spiritually though? Nope nope nope nope nope.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Mr Burns]

Introduced 4WD ???

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I'm my opinion they're too expensive and special for mere hot-hatch status.

 

[Clio_fool]

I guess if it wasn't a public vote there would be more newer cars in the list and not so many French s**t boxes. I'd have expected to see the golf 7R and i30N feature as they get nothing but good press reviews. Pistonheads forum is full of oddities though.

 

[Gus]

The way I understood it is that it was hot hatches released in the last 19 years - '21 century' which is why stuff like the Williams and Integrale and even the nissan pulsar arent there.

 

[Clio_fool]

The way I understood it is that it was hot hatches released in the last 19 years - '21 century' which is why stuff like the Williams and Integrale and even the nissan pulsar arent there.

That's correct.

Mmmmmmm Integrale🤤

 

[VR46-G@Z]

That's correct.

Mmmmmmm Integrale🤤

My friend has an impeccable Integrale Evo 2, it's absolute car p**n.... He imported it from Milan and it was Pink donkeys years ago, its now world class, god knows what it's worth if he ever decided to sell it.... 🤑

 

[Clio_fool]

My friend has an impeccable Integrale Evo 2, it's absolute car p**n.... He imported it from Milan and it was Pink donkeys years ago, its now world class, god knows what it's worth if he ever decided to sell it.... 🤑

Give over. I've just been browsing and I still can't afford one😩. Found a GMC Typhoon for £15k though 🤔😂.

 

[VR46-G@Z]

Give over. I've just been browsing and I still can't afford one😩. Found a GMC Typhoon for £15k though 🤔😂.

I've just messaged a mate to see if he has pics of it, it's truly special and rarely comes out of its carcoon... but on hot summer days the owner gives it hell which is what it's all about, my god does the thing handle, talk about on rails... A few years back he made poo come out of my bum, and I don't scare too easily... 😬💩

 

[Clio_fool]

I've just messaged a mate to see if he has pics of it, it's truly special and rarely comes out of its carcoon... but on hot summer days the owner gives it hell which is what it's all about, my god does the thing handle, talk about on rails... A few years back he made poo come out of my bum, and I don't scare too easily... 😬💩

Yeah they can handle a corner pretty well, even with a surprising amount of body roll they won't let go of the road. I was shocked the first time I went out in one.

 

[VR46-G@Z]

Yeah they can handle a corner pretty well, even with a surprising amount of body roll they won't let go of the road. I was shocked the first time I went out in one.

He's had his completely fettled and he sourced rare rally parts from Italy that were found in a warehouse... It has rally cross braces underneath, a few other technical extras I can't recall exactly what they were, featherlight carbon discs that bolt to the outside of the alloys for brake cooling, and fully seem welded. I don't recall any body roll in his, but I was probably too terrified to know what was happening... 🙈

 

[VR46-G@Z]

Here she is...

 

[Cookie]

Here she is... View attachment 1445137

It's a brake disc fan for channeling air to the actual brake disc, looks bloody stupid on a road car (looked odd on the rally cars too)

 

[VR46-G@Z]

It's a brake disc fan for channeling air to the actual brake disc, looks bloody stupid on a road car (looked odd on the rally cars too)

I don't think they're left on for the Mot that's for sure.... 😝

 

[Clio_fool]

Here she is... View attachment 1445137

Nice, EVO 1 like mine qss. I nearly bought an EVO 2interuor the same as that too but bought cam's and some oz spilt rims instead!

 

[VR46-G@Z]

Nice, EVO 1 like mine qss. I nearly bought an EVO 2interuor the same as that too but bought cam's and some oz spilt rims instead!

I haven't seen the owner of this for a while as I've moved away 40 odd miles, but last time we spoke this was running over 300bhp, could have been 310/320 possibly... It sure goes well anyway...!

 

[Clio_fool]

I haven't seen the owner of this for a while as I've moved away 40 odd miles, but last time we spoke this was running over 300bhp, could have been 310/320 possibly... It sure goes well anyway...!

Yeah mine was quick with 236 at the wheels and smooth as butter torque. If I could have one thing back from my past 😂.

 

[16v_er]

Had no. 3 and 4. Wouldn't consider the ep3 that good. Terrible steering feedback. Plus no 205gti?

 

[VR46-G@Z]

Had no. 3 and 4. Wouldn't consider the ep3 that good. Terrible steering feedback. Plus no 205gti?

After owning a 182 for so long it made the EP3 feel really bad in the steering feedback department... In reality it probably isn't bad, but not a patch on the 182....

 

[16v_er]

Definitely mate. Had a dc2 then a 172 cup then went for a jdm ep3 and Christ it was a shock.

 

[VR46-G@Z]

Nice cars you've owned! Renaultsport definitely know how to do handling.... 👌

 

[adamlstr]

Why is there also a noticeable lack of all the properly fast hatches as well?

Golf R
Focus RS
Merc A45

Because they're hyper-hatches.

 

[16v_er]

Nice cars you've owned! Renaultsport definitely know how to do handling.... 👌

the three mentioned. 172 and the dc2 were my favourite of all the ones I had. I didn't gel with the ep3.

 

[VR46-G@Z]

A Black DC2 is sweet!!! This was my EP3, it looked smart but can't say I've missed it one bit since I sold it...!

 

[16v_er]

Nice choice of wheels. Like them .

 

[MarcB]

HOT HATCH = Must have 3 doors IMHO

The vote should have been anything from 1990 onwards and then alot of other cars would have had a choice, The following for 106s, Saxos, 205s, RS Turbos (Esco & Fiesta) among other things is crazy.

Either way I have the 197 F1 in LY and even tho it never came on the list the 200 cup did and the 197 has all the Cup suspension and the Trophy came first so im happy about that. (prices will now shoot to £19k for a 100k track Trophy 😂 )

As for the dampers on the trophy they are an amazing bit of engineering, I believe they where used as on the Seat Leon touring cars and then also used on the Twingo R1 rally cars.
Renault clearly knew what they where doing when fitting these and I would personally say they would beat any aftermarket coil over kit, Serious money spent on them in testing / Producing and hours of testing and we all know that renault know what they are doing when it comes to suspension and handling, If people think a Cup packed 1*2 is a B road weapon drive a box fresh OE trophy and you will know why the suspension is hyped up.

 

[Martin_172]

good to see so many RS cars on the list.

Loved my 182 Trophy but tbh trick dampers or no trick dampers my 220 Trophy would have decimated it over any typical british B road, I suppose that's just progress though!

 

[David Stuart]

good to see so many RS cars on the list.

Loved my 182 Trophy but tbh trick dampers or no trick dampers my 220 Trophy would have decimated it over any typical british B road, I suppose that's just progress though!

To be fair most of the cars on that list would decimate a trophy over a B road. 172 cup excluded. But the 1*2s would both be great fun while doing it.


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[Clio_fool]

You don't have to be over a ton all the time to be having fun, that's why the 1*2 is so bloody good. And yes, I expect all trophy for sale to be over £10k now, Dawns will probably be nudging £30k 😂.

 

[Krarl]

You don't have to be over a ton all the time to be having fun, that's why the 1*2 is so bloody good. And yes, I expect all trophy for sale to be over £10k now, Dawns will probably be nudging £30k 😂.

30k?

Did she put some miles on it for the value to drop?