Project Lightweight, Trackday Clio 172

[scullyg40]

Last week I had another trackday planned, and yet again, it wasn't a great succes for me for different reasons.
Before the first session I noticed my coolant had a disturbing color. Originally it was blue, and now it looked like used toilet water? I discussed it with my mates, and we came to the conclusion that we had to keep an extra eye on it during the day.
First session. I drive out the pits, and in the first corner, this happens:



F*cking hell, I forgot to close the bonnet pins. My bonnet is f*cked, my window and my roof is damaged. I eventually managed to close the bonnet, and went out in the same session to complete a lap or two.

When session 2 came up, we went to line up in the pits, and on the way to the pits, my engine started to stutter badly, so I returned to the parking, opened the bonnet, and it sounded like this:



This sound seems to be coming from the gearbox, but when I was in the car it sounded different. Anyway, in combination with the coolant color, it was enough reason for me to park to car on the trailer and call it a day.

Later, Frank asked me to join him for a session in his mindblowing mk1 Golf. This car has a 1.6 16v Polo engine with 206 bhp, a Gripper diff, it weighes around 700 kg's, and is generally build to a very high standard.

Here's a lap in his car:



Back home, I parked the car in the garage, and thought, let's start it one more time, and it sounds fine?



There are still strange things happening to the coolant. With the cap off, it starts to boil over, but when the fan kicks in, the level drops? I really really don't see the connection between the level of the coolant, and something electrical switching on.

I took out the spark plugs, and they seem fine.

Plan is to do a compression check, and to refresh the coolant a couple of times to see if it get's contaminated again, or if the color change has to do with new components and a mix of new and old coolant maby? Then, I will pull out the engine to check the flywheel/clutch and gearbox. Hopefully we'll find what's wrong, and it will not turn out to expensive. I finally convinced my wife I needed a diff this winter, so I really can't use any expensive repairs at this poin.t

 

[Brigsy]

The coolant will boil over without cap on as the system needs to be sealed. Is it mixing oil into the coolant? Coolant can go black if you mix the two different types together. Give it a thorough flush and refill if compression and header tank sniff tests are ok.

 

[scullyg40]

So after the disastrous trackday at Assen, I had the windshield replaced. Forgot to take a picture, but we all know what a window looks like.

I also did a compression check, and the numbers seem low.

First test is with a cold engine, the second one warm. I was hoping the numbers would work out higher once warmed up, but it didn't. I suspect this is a timing issue? Since all numbers are equal.

During and before warming up the engine, I refreshed the coolant a couple of times with water, and it didn't seem to change color, even when I let the engine idle for half an hour to get up to temperature to do the compression test. I'll put the discolorisation down to mixture of 2 coolant types?

But when I let the engine idle again, the noise from the gearbox came back.



The engine was also running rough, and didn't want to rev?



I really can't think of a connection between the 2?

To check the gearbox, first I took out the gearbox oil.

It has some metal flakes in it, and I can draw magnetic lines with a magnet above it, so definately some metal in the oil, I just don't know if this is normal?
I took out the engine/gearbox after, and checked the input shaft from the gearbox, and it definately has some play. Looks to me, that this is the cause of the gearbox noise?



This is where we are at the moment, any input from you guys is more than welcome.

 

[scullyg40]

So I checked my timing, and it's a bit off.

Could this be the reason for the low compression values?

 

[scullyg40]

So I finally found my timing issue. I ordered a new dephaser, as I thought this was the cause, turned out it wasn't.

I received my dephaser, and mounted it and timed the belt the same evening. Timing missalignment the same. Also changed the water pump while I was at it.

My reason for changing the dephaser was that the inlet timing was off the most, my thoughts went to play in the dephaser, and the valve spring force causing the misalignment. When it was the same after changing the dephaser, I really didn't know it anymore, so time to take a long shower, and think things through. After the shower, I went back to the garage, took my 197 cams out of storage, and pushed the tool into those. They were really tight, while my original cams have quite a bit of play.



So the misalignment was caused because of the play, and the bolt clamping forces twisting both cams a bit. I had to be creative, and offset the cams a bit in advance, to counteract. So I used a couple of feeler shims to do just that.

After that, timing was miles better than it ever was in my possesion, although still not perfect, but certainly acceptable to my standards.

 

[scullyg40]

Biggest single update possible to my opinion on this project, picture says it all I suppose.

It's a Gripper LSD inside a @NorthloopCup refurbished box, and has done little miles since refurishment.
The Gripper has the Road/trackday settings, which mean 40/65 ramp angles and 60 Nm preload. My mate has a 45/45 120 Nm spec Gripper in his Golf mk1, so it will be nice to compare specs, and see what works out best.
Can't wait to test this out on track.

 

[Filipe Dias]

Awsome! Do you have the stock final drive or a shorter one?

 

[scullyg40]

Awsome! Do you have the stock final drive or a shorter one?

Stock final drive. But it is a JC5-130 so the final drive is shorter than the stock JC5-089.

 

[scullyg40]

I got the car running again, it turned out to be the green wire between the actuator relay and the ECU. Even though it gave 12V at the ECU plug, apparently, it needed to be replaced.




In this thread, you can see what I've tested, and how I came to the solution.

Car doesn't start

Allright, so this is a post I wasn't hoping to have to do, but my car doesn't want to start anymore, and I'm a bit clueless. It's a Clio 172 ph1. Let's start at the beginning. I don't know how related all these problems/symptoms are, but I just want to mention them. Last October, I had a...

cliosport.net

As I needed to replace the wire, I thought this was a good opportunity to delete some obsolete wiring. Not to lose any weight, because it's neglectable, but to simplify the system. Here's what I took out:

-Fuel cut off switch
-Carbon canister wiring
-Power steering wiring
-AC wires
-Speeds sensor wiring
-Reverse light wiring
-AC pressure switch wiring
-Low speed fan resistor wiring including relay
-Shortened fan wiring
-Pin 58 immobilizer wiring

Now it's a matter of just finishing up the wiring loom, and we're pretty much ready for the upcoming season.

 

[scullyg40]

A couple of days after my last post, my car started running rough again. This time I was able to diagnose the problem real soon, as injector 1 gave just 3 Ohms. I replaced the injector, and all is fine now. Hopefully for long.

 

[scullyg40]

A couple of days after my last post, my car started running rough again. This time I was able to diagnose the problem real soon, as injector 1 gave just 3 Ohms. I replaced the injector, and all is fine now. Hopefully for long.

Well, it didn't.
In summary after this, I changed the crank sensor, I changed the complete wiring loom. It all didn't help. Eventually, I got hold of a ph1 immo free ECU, and that solved it.




Because I got tyred of disconnecting the battery every time, I installed a main cut-off switch. I already noticed that it is really convenient.

 

[scullyg40]

Found a replacement ECU with the immobilizer deleted, and a map from Fastchip on it.

I also had some trouble aligning my gear linkage. Turned out my DIY engine mount was in the way, so we modified it a bit.

Next trackday, this Saturday.

 

[scullyg40]

Sad news, the Clio is history.

So yesterday was my first trackday with the new gearbox with Gripper diff. And it changed the car dramatically. I had so much grip in the front, that my back didn't know what to do with it.
Weather conditions were far from ideal, cold and windy, and in the first session, the track was still wet in most places. I had oversteer where I never had this before. Now, the diff itself doesn't cause this, but my theory is that the front tyres get much warmer in relation to the rears, that don't get really warm in the first place.
So I needed to learn the car again, and during the day, my confidence grew. I had an oversteer moment in the same corner a session before, and handled it perfectly.
But this time, my reaction just wasn't fast enough, and by the time I really knew what was going on, I was going sideways, and I thought it was best to just hit the brakes to take out as much speed out of the car as possible.

So I got oversteer at 168 km/h (105 mph) and hit the barrier with about 90 km/h (56 mph). Strange thing is, I was already accelerating out of the corner. My line was good, so no need to lift either.

There's also footage.



I think I can only blame myself, as I built the car, which caused this, and maby lack of experience wasn't able to save it. I don't know really. I also don't really know what the future will bring at this point, maby I'll rebuild the Clio in a different shell (most likely). Maby I'll sell all the parts, and do something different, things that come to mind are an E36 328 or a VW Polo 2 with a 1.6 16v or something else. We'll see.

 

[Ben perry]

Hope ur ok mate!!

 

[dann2707]

Fair smash that mate. Hope you're okay! Some wallop there.

 

[avstar1]

Gutted, hope you are ok! Looks like a heavy shunt.

 

[scullyg40]

I'm okay, mostly gutted about the car.

 

[Optimista]

That was a big hit! Glad you're okay and sorry for the car..
In a way i think you're glad there is a video of a crash, so you could see what went wrong from the outside..

Please send a pm if you decide to part the car.

 

[scullyg40]

Not really sure what I'm going to do, but looks like a reshell.

 

[Kev@KAM]

Truely gutting to see this carnage. If you can rebuild. I've enjoyed this build from the start.
What is the correct line on the corner. You came in deep and took the corner wide which is going to be slippy if its not the correct line through the corner.

 

[scullyg40]

Truely gutting to see this carnage. If you can rebuild. I've enjoyed this build from the start.
What is the correct line on the corner. You came in deep and took the corner wide which is going to be slippy if its not the correct line through the corner.

The line was really good actually, I hit the Apex on the inside, and was already accelerating to the outside.

Don't stop following this thread though. 😉

 

[Filipe Dias]

So sorry to see this . Hope you are ok. Cars are always replaceable .

 

[Optimista]

Looks like lift off oversteer?

 

[scullyg40]

Looks like lift off oversteer?

Well, the initial oversteer wasn't caused by lifting. I might have made it worse by lifting after though, but I can't really remember that. It all happened in a fraction, and by the time I was really aware of the situation, I was just a passenger and it seemed best to me to just hit the brakes.

 

[Mr Underhill]

Span a few times myself in the wet and as you say it happens so quickly. On all occasions I’ve managed to avoid the grass where you’re just a passenger at that point. Sad to see the car taking a hit but at least you’re ok and you can always build another one. I wouldn’t dwell on it or analyse too much, every car and driver has limits.

Look forward to seeing what you build next 😊

 

[scullyg40]

Span a few times myself in the wet and as you say it happens so quickly. On all occasions I’ve managed to avoid the grass where you’re just a passenger at that point. Sad to see the car taking a hit but at least you’re ok and you can always build another one. I wouldn’t dwell on it or analyse too much, every car and driver has limits.

Look forward to seeing what you build next 😊

Thanks for the positive feedback, and stay tuned. 😉👍

 

[ClioSaint]

Sorry to hear about the shunt, but hopefully you'll be back and making an even better car soon! Most important thing is, as others have said, you walked out of it.

 

[scullyg40]

Today I had a little bit time to take of the body panels, and have a first glance at the damage.

When taking of the wheels, I noticed my right wheel had hit the stabilizer bracket, and a small piece of aluminium had been stripped of the inside of the wheel. I don't know if I can still use this wheel, I'll have it checked anyway.

Then the obvious damage is that both chassis beams are bent severely, I don't know if it's clear on the pictures. Also, one of the mounting points of the subframe had been teared of.

The radiator and fan didn't survive, as did my ph1 air filter setup, but also my gearbox seemed to have had an impact, as I can only select 5th, and the car will only roll with the clutch depressed. So, my gearbox will have to be checked as well.
What did survive, were practically all of my welds, even though some of them weren't all that pretty, I guess they were structurally sound, which may have an influence on my future plans.

Also, my mates wife took the opportunity to take a couple of pictures.

 

[scullyg40]

So I've decided to fit a wing on the back, to get the back-end a bit more stable. I've looked at BYC and the TrackAero ones, but apart from the price, I don't like how they are mounted to the bootlid, as the forces are not directed straight to the chassis.

I've also decided to start on the back of the car because I've got some other jobs around the house that will take up most time of the year probably, and I can do little projects like this in between when the little one is sleeping for instance.

 

[Optimista]

Aerodynamic wise, is the v6 spoiler functional?

 

[scullyg40]

Aerodynamic wise, is the v6 spoiler functional?

I'm definately not an aero specialist, but I can understand why a wing produces downforce, as the air that passes underneath has to make a longer distance, so it speeds up. Higher velocity means lower air pressure.

A V6 spoiler to me looks like a big air dam. Surely it will produce downforce, as the air that passes above it will be compressed, but what happens at the back of the spoiler? To me, it looks like the turbulence area behind the car has increased quite a bit, creating more drag.

Maby I'm completely wrong, but a wing just seems a lot more efficient than a spoiler.

 

[hostler]

Really sorry to hear about the crash. Very happy that you're alright. Hopefully I'll see you out there again soon!

If there's any way I can help out let me know!

 

[scullyg40]

Really sorry to hear about the crash. Very happy that you're alright. Hopefully I'll see you out there again soon!

If there's any way I can help out let me know!

Thanks Joey. 👍 Time wise, I'm pretty sure I'll not be on track this year anymore. Other projects at home will take up most of my time, and the front end will be quite a project as well. 😉

 

[scullyg40]

What do you do when you've wrecked your car, and you have no time to fix it? Exactly, you bring the daily.

I upgraded the brakes a bit with some Ferodo DS2500's.

I also bought a set of Bilstein B6 Damptronic shocks with Eibach Pro springs. They arrived yesterday, so they are not fitted yet. Really interested in these, I will keep my DCC, but it should be quite an upgrade from stock.

After weeks of really good weather, all of a sudden it started snowing again. Luckily, not to much at Assen, and the tarmac was even dry(ish). I met up with my mates who own two really cool Golf's.

The Golf 1 (Instagram: knarfmk1) has a 1.6 16v Polo Engine with over 200 hp and a kerb weight below 700 kg's. Needless to say, it's fast. The Golf 2 (Instagram: turboclouseau) has a 1.8T engine with more than 300 hp. Handling wise it's slowly being converted from a fast road car to a track car, but this car has a lot of potential.

Just before my session, it started snowing again, so I decided (even more) to take it really slow and just have a bit of fun. Slower cars overtook me, but that's all good. Must be quite annoying for them to be stuck behind me in the corners, and seeying me dissapear on the straights. After a couple of turns, I turned my signal light on, and let them go by though. Fastest lap was a 2.35 min, which is definately not fast. But the GTI also has a lot of potential, not that I'll use it though. After the suspension upgrade, I have no more plans for it.

 

[scullyg40]

So just to close this up, I can say, the Clio didn't survive.

I've sold most of the parts, still got some for sale, such as the Gripper LSD gearbox, and the engine. I'll post up an add on here at some point, but shipment is bit of an issue, as I'm based in the Netherlands. (Nurburgring/Calais/Rotterdam is within driving distance though 😝)

The reason is mainly time based, as I do not have a lot of it with my daughter, and general life. My wife opted to buy something else, so that I could at least drive, and carry on with that. So I bought a somewhat bigger and more modern car.

Always been a Volkswagen guy, so this made sense with the 2.0 TFSI engine and multilink suspension. I will follow the same path as I did with the Clio though, making it lighter and handle well. It will get a bit more power, but that's not my main priority.

Thanks to all for reading and showing interest in my build, much appreciated. 👌👌

 

[Optimista]

So sad, but logical end to this..
Can you pm the price of the gearbox? I'm in Croatia..