Rear tyres on track query...

[loggyboy]

I have a pair of avon ZZRs that I hope to use at Brands hatch if its dry, however I dont yet have another pair of track orientated tyres for the rear. If it is dry, would a decent brand of road tyre give me a major (ie dangerous) imbalance of grip. IMO/E on fast road driving you can hardly notice the difference with good fronts and crap rears in the dry, but in the wet theres a huge difference.
Would it correct to assume that on track it will be similar, in that the rears dont do a huge amount in dry conditions as they are only trailing, obviously in the wet its a different storey as little break of grip can perpetuate to a lot of slide!
Should I be panic buying another pair of track tyres or making do with a worn pair of michelins/pirellis or similar.

 

[Kelv]

personally, id be wanting a set of tyres that match all round, more so on a track environment.

 

[Adam G]

You'd be best to get the same type all round really. Even if that means all road tyres but if that's not an option, then I'd put the track tyres on the back. I'm guessing you have no/little track experience so understeer is a safer option for you.

 

[Inequality Street]

I did an evening at Bedford with road tyres on the back and semi-slick Yokahoma AD08's on the fronts. I survived, didn't have any 'moments' either and that was my first ever track day.

Not recommended, but you'll be fine.

 

[jezcharger]

Had toyo 888's all round, then ran over a piece of debris and slashed one of the back ones at Oulton last month, so had to put my road going mich exalto's on for the rest of the day at the back and they were fine

 

[r0ss172]

I did Bedford in the summer, boiling hot day 28 degrees IIRC. I had contisport 3's on the front almost new, and some crappy kingpin ditch finders on the rear with around 5mm still left on them. About half way through the session the rear tyres were feeling the heat and i noticed a significant loss of grip, so much so that (although i went in too fast and drove like a tw@t video here - http://youtu.be/URgXQfB9wYQ ) i spun at 80-90mph www.BROWNPANTS.com

My advice to you would be make sure your rear tyres are faily good and if you can help it match them up to the fronts. Middle of the range/Premium road tyres should be ok but seriously keep away from the kingpins! :headno:

 

[McGherkin]

Can't you just put the Avons on the back?

 

[MG cup]

The back doesn't get a hard life unless your throwing it through weight changes. It would actually make a really good setup in the wet and definitely offer enough grip in the dry as long as they are not wanli remoulds on the rear.

A lot of FWD race series like the BTCC used to put slicks on the front and wets on the rear in changeable conditions, you can warm the fronts but struggle in the rear so it works well.

 

[loggyboy]

I'm guessing you have no/little track experience so understeer is a safer option for you.

Yes, little 'track' - single day on a damp brands, in an MX5 with naff tyres, so plenty of oversteer experience. I'd considere myself pretty competent though, been competing (and doing ok) in grassroots motorsports for years and definately not scared of a little oversteer.

If it seems as I suspected the general concencus is that it wont be perfect, but not inherintly unsafe. I'll just keep an eye on ebay for more local bargain track tyres and run on some decent roads if nothing shows up. I suspect it will be damp anyway, so I have Rainsports at the ready for that eventuality.

 

[loggyboy]

I did Bedford in the summer, boiling hot day 28 degrees IIRC. I had contisport 3's on the front almost new, and some crappy kingpin ditch finders on the rear with around 5mm still left on them. About half way through the session the rear tyres were feeling the heat and i noticed a significant loss of grip, so much so that (although i went in too fast and drove like a tw@t video here - http://youtu.be/URgXQfB9wYQ ) i spun at 80-90mph www.BROWNPANTS.com

Too fast and turned in far too early, taking far too much kerb - I would suspect you would have done the same with any tyres on taking that line. Great recovery though, take experience/bottle to dump the throttle when half way through a spin/correction!

Can't you just put the Avons on the back?

Pointless having them then really, might as well have 4 balance road tyes for the good the zzrs woudl do on the rear.

 

[Martin.]

Having the track tyres on the front and normal tyres on the back will give you a lot less grip at the back. Potentially giving you a few over steer moments.

I wouldn't recommend it but if you are careful and not going balls out then I'm sure you'll survive.

If you do want to do that then make sure you keep your rear tyres on a lower pressure to try and get as much grip as possible in comparison.

This is all assuming it's dry. If it's wet then you really need to have 4 matching tyres, or at least four of similar ability to be safer. Unless you are pottering around or like going sideways

 

[Fred@BTM]

who cares, just drive the thing!

 

[loggyboy]

This is all assuming it's dry. If it's wet then you really need to have 4 matching tyres, or at least four of similar ability to be safer. Unless you are pottering around or like going sideways

If its wet that may be the plan, as if you cant go fast, you might was well go sideways. - Eactly what I did in the MX5 last time as it was damp all day and we had the slowest car there. However I do have 4 Rainsports in good nick so no concerns over wet weather balance.

 

[loggyboy]

who cares, just drive the thing!

LOL - that is indeed the most useful post here!

 

[Fred@BTM]

If you believed what you read on the internet you'd be turning up with an F1 team to support you, just get on track and have fun!

 

[FLOBALOB]

Fred , talking sense as usual.

I,m into having decent tyres if possible but seriously on the rear it really doesnt matter THAT much. A couple of fellas in Clio cups were running complete junk tyres all around at Brands a couple of weeks back and they weren't off at every bend , and they were still having plenty of fun. You should be more worried about some of the muppets that Brands seem to attract and their driving skills/non skills, that place can get very hectic and very frustrating on a track day.

 

[Fred@BTM]

sideways = fast way

 

[loggyboy]

You should be more worried about some of the muppets that Brands seem to attract and their driving skills/non skills, that place can get very hectic and very frustrating on a track day.

Had this last time - as it was a 'general day' we had a lot of geunine race cars using it as a test day, and ausing the rules (or lack of) of a test day. Got overtaken on the right and on a bend, but organisers were swift to pull him in and wrap his knuckles, (as they were for my brother who was using it more as a drift session towards the end of the day when we got bored of trying to be smooth.).

Fortunately this time its a road car only day and i'm in a car that should be a little quicker, more capable and that I dont really give two hoots about. So if their are any muppets that cant read the rules, they are welcome to a free silver stripe down the side of their car if try to overtake where they shouldnt. I wont be as considerate as when I was driving someone elses car!

 

[Adam G]

Yes, little 'track' - single day on a damp brands, in an MX5 with naff tyres, so plenty of oversteer experience. I'd considere myself pretty competent though, been competing (and doing ok) in grassroots motorsports for years and definately not scared of a little oversteer.

If it seems as I suspected the general concencus is that it wont be perfect, but not inherintly unsafe. I'll just keep an eye on ebay for more local bargain track tyres and run on some decent roads if nothing shows up. I suspect it will be damp anyway, so I have Rainsports at the ready for that eventuality.

In that case put them on the front and whack the road tyres on the back and smile all day.